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"He's entitled to his opinion"
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bbnutnut
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by wotnot:
“I think that he is entitled to HIS opinion that HE doesn't agree with two gay people adopting, if he genuinely lives according to strict Christian beliefs then I can see that would be a problem for him but to consider it abuse is horrific.”

Strict Christian beliefs usually involve abstaining from sex outside of marriage. He chooses not to adhere to that one. Bit of a picker and chooser.
GrozzyGirl
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by AaronWx:
“I keep seeing this in defence of Winston. Yes of course he can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean you have to respect the actual opinion. Why can't people see that having a problem with someone's opinion doesn't mean you have a problem with them HAVING an opinion. There's a difference.

If you make your opinions publicly known they are not immune from criticism and rightly so. It was the opinion of many white people that black people were so inferior that they had to give up their seats on the bus, should Rosa Parks have accepted that opinion and left it unchallenged because racists were "entitled to their opinion"? No I don't think so. It's unacceptable to be discriminatory or prejudiced towards people for the biological traits they were born with, and it's not an infringement on entitlements of opinions or "freedom of speech" to call that out.

Mentioning freedom of speech, I think its worth pointing out what it actually is as those who cry it don't seem to understand it. Freedom of speech means the government/authorities won't prevent you from speaking at the point of making said speech. Let's just use Winston as an example - he's not being gagged so he can't vocalise and he's not being denied access to other mediums of speech such as social media, TV etc. He's not having any rights infringed upon. Freedom of speech doesn't protect you however from the contents of what you actually said being criticised. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence and with it comes responsibility.”

You've taken a lot of time and words to state the obvious

He's entitled to his opinion and people are entitled to challenge it

So what?

I am truly baffled why you and so many others are belabouring this point in such a long winded way.
Fanntastik
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by GrozzyGirl:
“You've taken a lot of time and words to state the obvious

He's entitled to his opinion and people are entitled to challenge it

So what?

I am truly baffled why you and so many others are belabouring this point in such a long winded way.”

Because so many people are desperate to try and and make it out like people attacking Winston are against free speech. They're not. That's not how free speech is violated.
GrozzyGirl
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by Fanntastik:
“Because so many people are desperate to try and and make it out like people attacking Winston are against free speech. They're not. That's not what free speech is.”

Eh? I'm not seeing that, that's a skewed interpretation
People are saying he should be allowed to say it under free speech
They are also saying it should not have been aired .... But that's about what it and a isn't perceived as acceptable

Anyway , people telling people they don't really understand free speech and endorsing censorship is amusing me
AaronWx
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by GrozzyGirl:
“You've taken a lot of time and words to state the obvious

He's entitled to his opinion and people are entitled to challenge it

So what?

I am truly baffled why you and so many others are belabouring this point in such a long winded way.”

You seem to have missed that the post encompasses more than just what you've said there.
GrozzyGirl
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by AaronWx:
“You seem to have missed that the post encompasses more than just what you've said there.”

Nothing relevant has been missed, trust me.
AaronWx
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by GrozzyGirl:
“Nothing relevant has been missed, trust me.”

I disagree I'm afraid. I made what I felt a very necessary post in light of many comments I had seen here and through other media, and many here seem to agree. The point is not just simply that he can have an opinion and others can challenge it, there is more to it than that which I can only assume you've missed from your comments so far.

If you actually have anything of substance to add then please say it.
honeythewitch
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by AaronWx:
“I disagree I'm afraid. I made what I felt a very necessary post in light of many comments I had seen here and through other media, and many here seem to agree. The point is not just simply that he can have an opinion and others can challenge it, there is more to it than that which I can only assume you've missed from your comments so far.

If you actually have anything of substance to add then please say it.”

Aaron, if you think some of us have misunderstood what you are saying perhaps you can try and explain again?
It is quite a complex issue, and easy to get the wrong end of the stick in print.
Hibernian88
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by AaronWx:
“I keep seeing this in defence of Winston. Yes of course he can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean you have to respect the actual opinion. Why can't people see that having a problem with someone's opinion doesn't mean you have a problem with them HAVING an opinion. There's a difference.

If you make your opinions publicly known they are not immune from criticism and rightly so. It was the opinion of many white people that black people were so inferior that they had to give up their seats on the bus, should Rosa Parks have accepted that opinion and left it unchallenged because racists were "entitled to their opinion"? No I don't think so. It's unacceptable to be discriminatory or prejudiced towards people for the biological traits they were born with, and it's not an infringement on entitlements of opinions or "freedom of speech" to call that out.

Mentioning freedom of speech, I think its worth pointing out what it actually is as those who cry it don't seem to understand it. Freedom of speech means the government/authorities won't prevent you from speaking at the point of making said speech. Let's just use Winston as an example - he's not being gagged so he can't vocalise and he's not being denied access to other mediums of speech such as social media, TV etc. He's not having any rights infringed upon. Freedom of speech doesn't protect you however from the contents of what you actually said being criticised. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence and with it comes responsibility.”

It's the fact that people make out there's a concrete right and wrong to what Winston was talking about, which there isn't.

Winston was saying people should have the right to have a view on everything as he is a backer of freedom of speech, whereas most other people were very stubborn in saying that he is 100% wrong and qyite aggressive in their voice when talking about it, in other words they were being complete bigots.

They have the cheek to make out Winston is a bigot, when in actual fact, they were being bigoted.
They don't know the definition of bigot if they think he is one.
A bigot is someone who thinks their views are 100% right and won't listen to anyone who says otherwise and won't even give them the time of day afterwards. Winston isn't like that, he says he has own opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs. He is in actual fact the opposite of a bigot.
sorcha_healy27
09-01-2016
I note Winston trying to shut down debate when he made the most self indulge speech in big brother history tonight.
sheils1
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by Hibernian88:
“It's the fact that people make out there's a concrete right and wrong to what Winston was talking about, which there isn't.

Winston was saying people should have the right to have a view on everything as he is a backer of freedom of speech, whereas most other people were very stubborn in saying that he is 100% wrong and qyite aggressive in their voice when talking about it, in other words they were being complete bigots.

They have the cheek to make out Winston is a bigot, when in actual fact, they were being bigoted.
They don't know the definition of bigot if they think he is one.
A bigot is someone who thinks their views are 100% right and won't listen to anyone who says otherwise and won't even give them the time of day afterwards. Winston isn't like that, he says he has own opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs. He is in actual fact the opposite of a bigot.”

Well said.
erin_p
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by Croctacus:
“People can have as much free speech as they want but they have to accept that others are just as free to tell them their views are a load of bigoted bollocks.

I can't believe how many people are saying Winston was bullied. Bullshit. If he truly believes that he is free to spout off about his beliefs however repellent his views, then surely he knows that others are free to call him on it.

A majority disagreeing with an individual doesn't constitute bullying.”

I agree he can have his opinion but he also needs to own it and all that comes with it ...as you say others are free to call him on it .. they did ..and he is out .
AaronWx
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by honeythewitch:
“Aaron, if you think some of us have misunderstood what you are saying perhaps you can try and explain again?
It is quite a complex issue, and easy to get the wrong end of the stick in print.”

I would if the person wasn't being deliberately arsey and dismissive and added something of worth to the debate, but it would be a complete waste of time. I don't think it could be made any clearer really, and apparently I've already laboured such a simple point.
sorcha_healy27
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by Hibernian88:
“It's the fact that people make out there's a concrete right and wrong to what Winston was talking about, which there isn't.

Winston was saying people should have the right to have a view on everything as he is a backer of freedom of speech, whereas most other people were very stubborn in saying that he is 100% wrong and qyite aggressive in their voice when talking about it, in other words they were being complete bigots.

They have the cheek to make out Winston is a bigot, when in actual fact, they were being bigoted.
They don't know the definition of bigot if they think he is one.
A bigot is someone who thinks their views are 100% right and won't listen to anyone who says otherwise and won't even give them the time of day afterwards. Winston isn't like that, he says he has own opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs. He is in actual fact the opposite of a bigot.”

He said that gay parents adopting children is like child abuse. That's the very definition of bigotry.

He also said his back would be to the wall because of John and Christopher in his VT.

He is an unpleasant homophobic bigot. He can air his views but you are completely wrong in claiming he's not a bigot.
sheils1
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“He said that gay parents adopting children is like child abuse. That's the very definition of bigotry.

He also said his back would be to the wall because of John and Christopher in his VT.

He is an unpleasant homophobic bigot. He can air his views but you are completely wrong in claiming he's not a bigot.”

It isnt illegal to be homophobic, goodness me.
sorcha_healy27
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by sheils1:
“It isnt illegal to be homophobic, goodness me.”

What's your point?

I was responding to someone who claimed Winston wasn't a bigot
kitkat1971
09-01-2016
Originally Posted by InMyArms:
“He is entitled to his opinion

The rest of us are entitled to our opinion that his opinions make him an utter ****.”

Well said.

Also the OP.

I don't think anybody is objecting to his right to his opinions, or even to his right to express them, even though they will upset/offend many.

But, we have a right to voice our opinions on his opinions and question him as to why he holds them.
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