He's actually posing a very difficult question and one which the experts do not have an answer for yet .
To look at it from a child's point of view most would like to be raised by a mother and father . People can be very cruel, especially children and I've no experience how a child is treated both at school and at play due to having gay parents .

Children don't need a mother and a father. They need loving caring homes. Saying they need one woman and one man is an outdated view based on arbitrary gender roles and also assumes the child have no aunts, uncles, grandparents or friends around.


As for kids being picked on. Kids pick on other kids for anything and everything. I got picked on because my parents were 'old' they were about the same age as Kristina when they had me. Should Kristina just give her baby away just so her kid has less chance of being picked on? And the reason we challenge views like Winston's is to reduce the chances of that kind of bullying happening.

It can also be argued gay couples can make better parents because they have to work that much harder to become parents and have to spend a lot more time preparing.

My thoughts too Paace.

In time things will be easier I'm sure, but it wasn't that long ago when children born out of wedlock were ridiculed, looked down on etc. Obviously nowadays it's more the norm.

I think you'll find that many children wouldn't agree with you, and that they needed both of their parents.
Last edited by Dix : 09-01-2016 at 23:53

Sometimes the 'Norm' is just the accepted, but, maybe not the best if we are honest.

Obviously the 'Best' is a natural loving Mother and Father.

After that, we all can only do 'our best' to replicate that, but, there are children in the world that just want security and love, in which ever form it takes.

Yes their parents. People love and need their parents for who they are as people not because of their gender.

Also I'm sure a lot of children of gay people will say the same they need both of their parents it just so happens both their parents have the same genitalia.

I didn't know views have a sell by date .
Of course every child needs a loving caring home where they can feel loved and secure . But children have to leave the home and come into contact with other children and adults .

The question is how do children from same sex relationships fare compared to children raised by a mother and father . I suppose the only people to provide answers to that question is children of same sex parents who have become adults . Then again it's early days in this scenario as I believe its only quite recently that same sex couples were allowed to adopt .

I think if a child is given a chance, and was told that their new parents were same gender and why, they'd accept that.

Have you never hear the phrase 'out-dated' views before? Anyway I meant it was outdated because traditionally a woman's/mother's role were very different to that of a man/father's but in more recent times the lines are blurring and there are many families now where a dad may stay at home whilst mum works or they both may share responsibilities. Also the way of raising children is becoming quite different when it comes to gender. Parents are becoming more open to letting their little girls be tomboys and little boys be effeminate.

Also, I don't think what kind of family's are deemed acceptable should be dictated by playground bullies. I think educating people and trying to eradicate bullying is a far better idea than designing our lives around them. And study after study that has taken the child's view into account has shown they're not disadvantaged by what gender their parents are.

You'd be surprised. I was googling about on the subject this evening and it seems that research studies on this subject have been carried out as far back as fifty years ago. The United States seem to have done a lot of it (not sure why!)

Here's some bits cribbed from a Wikipedia article on it:


On April 6, 1999 the American Civil Liberties Union produced an Overview of Lesbian and Gay Parenting, Adoption and Foster Care. Within this document, the organization addressed research results on Lesbian and Gay Parenting, some key findings include:

There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents;

Home environments with lesbian and gay parents are as likely to successfully support a child's development as those with heterosexual parents;

Good parenting is not influenced by sexual orientation. Rather, it is influenced most profoundly by a parent's ability to create a loving and nurturing home - an ability that does not depend on whether the parent is gay or straight;

There is no evidence to suggest that the children of lesbian and gay parents are less intelligent, suffer from more problems, are less popular, or have lower self-esteem than children of heterosexual parents;

The children of lesbian and gay parents grow up as happy, healthy, and well-adjusted as the children of heterosexual parents.

A consensus has developed among the medical, psychological, and social welfare communities that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are just as likely to be well-adjusted as those raised by heterosexual parents. The research supporting this conclusion is accepted beyond serious debate in the field of developmental psychology. Based on the robust nature of the evidence available in the field, the Third District Court of Appeal of the State of Florida was satisfied in 2010 that the issue is so far beyond dispute that it would be irrational to hold otherwise; the best interests of children are not preserved by prohibiting homosexual adoption.The most important factors in maintaining the welfare of a child is more dependent on the socioeconomic status and not as dependent on the gender and sexuality of the parents. Issues are brought about from uncontrolled factors such as discrimination or the inability of parents to get married.

I totally agree Flower, my reference to "norm" was regarding how times have changed from when I was a child when, having a child born out of wedlock was massively frowned upon.

Adoptive parents are very carefully chosen, not by the child but by professionals who have the child's best interests at heart.

There's that i suppose, although change is never easy is it? eggs will be broken in the process, and I'm not sure we should cater to young kids prejudices. It's a tough question indeed given that kids are involved.... Who doesn't want the very VERY best and no compromise will be made. People are rightly idealistic about notions of child rearing. On the other hand some people don't see any problem at all. It's a personal choice i think.


Are gender rolls arbitrary? Nah! Gender rolls are nature given rolls imo. We can try and argue with nature but we're not going to win that one.

I see homo-sexuality as natural too, but although i'v previously not given much thought to the subject, i do think ideally kids do best with mixed sex parenting.


Fully agree.


That is arbitrary. Some will work harder others wont'.

Based on what? Have you done studies on the subject? Researched it? Spoken to actual children of gay parents?

In a way yes. i was adopted by a fabulous hetro couple, isn't that relevant to same sex parenting?

There's the issue of adoption within the issue of same sex parenting to look at. So if i was to look at the research regarding adoption i'd find the research to say ideally it's better for a child to grow up with a father and mother, rather than a step father and step mother... With same sex parenting we have a step father and a father. Correct me where i'm wrong here because i'm new to the topic.

Personally I think it's child abuse when people only have one child and/or if parents smoke but I am sure there are smoking parents with only one child who would disagree with me but because they're not of a formerly oppressed sexuality it wouldn't get blown out of proportion by a load of has been ass kissers over exaggerating how outraged they are because if they don't they won't have a career.

The same way as straight parents

Quite.

Can gay guys fulfill womanly rolls? how camp of them

The research suggests there isn't really much difference between a child growing up with a loving hetro couple and a loving gay couple.

You obviously love your parents, which is great, but a lot of children with same-sex couple would probably feel the same way. I mean you wouldn't want to change your parents because some idiots like Winston were saying ludicrous things about them.

That is very naive of you, I think we have got past the 'TV out there' view of what homosexual men are all about.

There are a lot of heterosexual women who don't fulfill 'womanly' roles. Is it child abuse for them to have children too now?

Also you do know gay families go outside right? They don't just stay cooped up at home with no TV internet nothing. It's very easy to teach about sexes.

There are studies that say it is better to have a mother and father but similar could be said if you have more children of one gender over the other. If a same sex couple was to adopt if is better for the family than if they were to have a surrogate or sperm donor because it's not both of their child, it's one of the parents and a stranger's child which can cause problems if that couple were to split as the real parent mightn't allow his/her child to see the other parent who is emotionally attached to that child.

What is in a womanly roll and is it suitable for vegetarians?

Yes lets pretend the people that outraged are just crazy. Then we don't have to bother looking at the things we can change within ourselves and society. What fun.

Also as an only child yes I'm outraged that you think having one kid is child abuse. Happy?

But then I think people are starting to misunderstand what child abuse is. Child Abuse is significantly emotionally, physically or sexually harming a child. It's not parenting in a slightly different way to what you do.