Originally Posted by mellick:
“What is in a womanly roll and is it suitable for vegetarians?
”
“What is in a womanly roll and is it suitable for vegetarians?
”
I was thinking more of 'rolling' like a 'womanly way of rolling down a hill'.
NO Child has a choice in its parents, Winston is spouting BS !!
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Originally Posted by mellick:
“What is in a womanly roll and is it suitable for vegetarians?”
“What is in a womanly roll and is it suitable for vegetarians?
”
Women were always thought of as nurturers, and men were thought of bread winners......times have changed....for the good or bad? .... that is the debate.
Originally Posted by BeeBumble:
“The research suggests there isn't really much difference between a child growing up with a loving hetro couple and a loving gay couple.
You obviously love your parents, which is great, but a lot of children with same-sex couple would probably feel the same way. I mean you wouldn't want to change your parents because some idiots like Winston were saying ludicrous things about them.”
“The research suggests there isn't really much difference between a child growing up with a loving hetro couple and a loving gay couple.
You obviously love your parents, which is great, but a lot of children with same-sex couple would probably feel the same way. I mean you wouldn't want to change your parents because some idiots like Winston were saying ludicrous things about them.”
It would depend what age they were adopted. Although this subject is about adoption (although more point scoring to see who can be the most politically correct for most people) when I was at school there was a lesbian couple who had non identical twins, I don't know if they were adopted or they had a sperm donor but it seems more likely a sperm donor as this usually results in twins. In the parents evening the teachers would over exaggerate how they agreed with them being parents or pretend they didn't notice they are a lesbian couple but the other children would laugh at them and say they have 2 mums so to say it is child abuse can be a valid argument but only because child abuse is a broad term and can even things like not being allowed to eat sweets or watching some TV programmes can be seen as child abuse
Originally Posted by mseven1:
“It would depend what age they were adopted. Although this subject is about adoption (although more point scoring to see who can be the most politically correct for most people) when I was at school there was a lesbian couple who had non identical twins, I don't know if they were adopted or they had a sperm donor but it seems more likely a sperm donor as this usually results in twins. In the parents evening the teachers would over exaggerate how they agreed with them being parents or pretend they didn't notice they are a lesbian couple but the other children would laugh at them and say they have 2 mums so to say it is child abuse can be a valid argument but only because child abuse is a broad term and can even things like not being allowed to eat sweets or watching some TV programmes can be seen as child abuse”
“It would depend what age they were adopted. Although this subject is about adoption (although more point scoring to see who can be the most politically correct for most people) when I was at school there was a lesbian couple who had non identical twins, I don't know if they were adopted or they had a sperm donor but it seems more likely a sperm donor as this usually results in twins. In the parents evening the teachers would over exaggerate how they agreed with them being parents or pretend they didn't notice they are a lesbian couple but the other children would laugh at them and say they have 2 mums so to say it is child abuse can be a valid argument but only because child abuse is a broad term and can even things like not being allowed to eat sweets or watching some TV programmes can be seen as child abuse”
Not 'child abuse' but making children face the inevitable questions that they will have to face, from the playground to the office floor.......Always reminding them that they were adopted and 'different'..........
Now some will have held their head up high with pride and love to answer those questions, but others will maybe not.
Originally Posted by mseven1:
“It would depend what age they were adopted. Although this subject is about adoption (although more point scoring to see who can be the most politically correct for most people) when I was at school there was a lesbian couple who had non identical twins, I don't know if they were adopted or they had a sperm donor but it seems more likely a sperm donor as this usually results in twins. In the parents evening the teachers would over exaggerate how they agreed with them being parents or pretend they didn't notice they are a lesbian couple but the other children would laugh at them and say they have 2 mums so to say it is child abuse can be a valid argument but only because child abuse is a broad term and can even things like not being allowed to eat sweets or watching some TV programmes can be seen as child abuse”
“It would depend what age they were adopted. Although this subject is about adoption (although more point scoring to see who can be the most politically correct for most people) when I was at school there was a lesbian couple who had non identical twins, I don't know if they were adopted or they had a sperm donor but it seems more likely a sperm donor as this usually results in twins. In the parents evening the teachers would over exaggerate how they agreed with them being parents or pretend they didn't notice they are a lesbian couple but the other children would laugh at them and say they have 2 mums so to say it is child abuse can be a valid argument but only because child abuse is a broad term and can even things like not being allowed to eat sweets or watching some TV programmes can be seen as child abuse”
Child Abuse is not a broad term. It's a legal term and from NSPCC website literally means:Child abuse is any action by another person – adult or child – that causes significant harm to a child. It can be physical, sexual or emotional, but can just as often be about a lack of love, care and attention.
Also like I said before why should we design our laws and decide on who's allowed a family be based on playground bullies. Shouldn't we just tackle bullying instead. Especially because there are many, many other reasons why children can be bullied. I was bullied because my parents looked older, because the other kids didn't like my pencil case and because my mum once made me egg mayonnaise sandwiches. So was it child abuse for my mum to make me egg sandwhiches? Should we ban pencil cases?
Originally Posted by mellick:
“What is in a womanly roll and is it suitable for vegetarians?”
“What is in a womanly roll and is it suitable for vegetarians?
”
That's another thing to the list, parents that don't allow their children to eat some food.
Originally Posted by BeeBumble:
“Yes lets pretend the people that outraged are just crazy. Then we don't have to bother looking at the things we can change within ourselves and society. What fun.
Also as an only child yes I'm outraged that you think having one kid is child abuse. Happy?
But then I think people are starting to misunderstand what child abuse is. Child Abuse is significantly emotionally, physically or sexually harming a child. It's not parenting in a slightly different way to what you do.”
“Yes lets pretend the people that outraged are just crazy. Then we don't have to bother looking at the things we can change within ourselves and society. What fun.
Also as an only child yes I'm outraged that you think having one kid is child abuse. Happy?
But then I think people are starting to misunderstand what child abuse is. Child Abuse is significantly emotionally, physically or sexually harming a child. It's not parenting in a slightly different way to what you do.”
They aren't crazy they just seem to think it's a competition to see who can score the most politically correct points rather than discussing the subject, hearing others views and explaining the view they are over exaggerating and using to block other's explanations of their opinions because they might lose points in their crazy who can be the most politically correct game.
Originally Posted by flower 2:
“That is very naive of you, I think we have got past the 'TV out there' view of what homosexual men are all about.”
“That is very naive of you, I think we have got past the 'TV out there' view of what homosexual men are all about.”
Can they or not?
And try not to be so serious, just having a laugh at a serious topic
;
Originally Posted by mseven1:
“That's another thing to the list, parents that don't allow their children to eat some food.
They aren't crazy they just seem to think it's a competition to see who can score the most politically correct points rather than discussing the subject, hearing others views and explaining the view they are over exaggerating and using to block other's explanations of their opinions because they might lose points in their crazy who can be the most politically correct game.”
“That's another thing to the list, parents that don't allow their children to eat some food.
They aren't crazy they just seem to think it's a competition to see who can score the most politically correct points rather than discussing the subject, hearing others views and explaining the view they are over exaggerating and using to block other's explanations of their opinions because they might lose points in their crazy who can be the most politically correct game.”
What people are you talking about?
Because most 'politically correct' people I know just want others to show a bit more respect to people around them.
Originally Posted by flower 2:
“Not 'child abuse' but making children face the inevitable questions that they will have to face, from the playground to the office floor.......Always reminding them that they were adopted and 'different'..........
Now some will have held their head up high with pride and love to answer those questions, but others will maybe not.”
“Not 'child abuse' but making children face the inevitable questions that they will have to face, from the playground to the office floor.......Always reminding them that they were adopted and 'different'..........
Now some will have held their head up high with pride and love to answer those questions, but others will maybe not.”
How many children with 2 mothers were at your school?
Originally Posted by BeeBumble:
“Child Abuse is not a broad term. It's a legal term and from NSPCC website literally means:Child abuse is any action by another person – adult or child – that causes significant harm to a child. It can be physical, sexual or emotional, but can just as often be about a lack of love, care and attention.
Also like I said before why should we design our laws and decide on who's allowed a family be based on playground bullies. Shouldn't we just tackle bullying instead. Especially because there are many, many other reasons why children can be bullied. I was bullied because my parents looked older, because the other kids didn't like my pencil case and because my mum once made me egg mayonnaise sandwiches. So was it child abuse for my mum to make me egg sandwhiches? Should we ban pencil cases?”
“Child Abuse is not a broad term. It's a legal term and from NSPCC website literally means:Child abuse is any action by another person – adult or child – that causes significant harm to a child. It can be physical, sexual or emotional, but can just as often be about a lack of love, care and attention.
Also like I said before why should we design our laws and decide on who's allowed a family be based on playground bullies. Shouldn't we just tackle bullying instead. Especially because there are many, many other reasons why children can be bullied. I was bullied because my parents looked older, because the other kids didn't like my pencil case and because my mum once made me egg mayonnaise sandwiches. So was it child abuse for my mum to make me egg sandwhiches? Should we ban pencil cases?”
So a child being made fun of for having 2 mums isn't being abused mentally by other children? There are many things children are bullied for but that isn't what we are discussing, it doesn't make it an invalid point because there are other things for children to make fun of and even it was you are agreeing with Winston because other children are mentally abusing the children due to the same sex couple
Originally Posted by BeeBumble:
“The research suggests there isn't really much difference between a child growing up with a loving hetro couple and a loving gay couple.
You obviously love your parents, which is great, but a lot of children with same-sex couple would probably feel the same way. I mean you wouldn't want to change your parents because some idiots like Winston were saying ludicrous things about them.”
“The research suggests there isn't really much difference between a child growing up with a loving hetro couple and a loving gay couple.
You obviously love your parents, which is great, but a lot of children with same-sex couple would probably feel the same way. I mean you wouldn't want to change your parents because some idiots like Winston were saying ludicrous things about them.”
The research varies, were you not aware of that or do you have a specific piece of research you favour?
Originally Posted by mseven1:
“How many children with 2 mothers were at your school?
So a child being made fun of for having 2 mums isn't being abused mentally by other children? There are many things children are bullied for but that isn't what we are discussing, it doesn't make it an invalid point because there are other things for children to make fun of and even it was you are agreeing with Winston because other children are mentally abusing the children due to the same sex couple”
“How many children with 2 mothers were at your school?
So a child being made fun of for having 2 mums isn't being abused mentally by other children? There are many things children are bullied for but that isn't what we are discussing, it doesn't make it an invalid point because there are other things for children to make fun of and even it was you are agreeing with Winston because other children are mentally abusing the children due to the same sex couple”
None that I can remember, and as I was saying, if there were I am sure I would have had questions for them about their 'parents' which may or may not have made their lives difficult and less 'fitting in'......
Originally Posted by flower 2:
“Women were always thought of as nurturers, and men were thought of bread winners......times have changed....for the good or bad? .... that is the debate.”
“Women were always thought of as nurturers, and men were thought of bread winners......times have changed....for the good or bad? .... that is the debate.”
Plus. can a gay man teach a young girl to be a woman?
Doesn't seem likely does it.
Originally Posted by mseven1:
“How many children with 2 mothers were at your school?
So a child being made fun of for having 2 mums isn't being abused mentally by other children? There are many things children are bullied for but that isn't what we are discussing, it doesn't make it an invalid point because there are other things for children to make fun of and even it was you are agreeing with Winston because other children are mentally abusing the children due to the same sex couple”
“How many children with 2 mothers were at your school?
So a child being made fun of for having 2 mums isn't being abused mentally by other children? There are many things children are bullied for but that isn't what we are discussing, it doesn't make it an invalid point because there are other things for children to make fun of and even it was you are agreeing with Winston because other children are mentally abusing the children due to the same sex couple”
I know people with gay parents. They seem happy and don't think they'd swap their parents just because of playground bullies.
Being made fun of is not significant abuse no. Being teased is something most children go through. Significant abuse includes, violence, molestation, being starved, being psychologically traumatised. If you were to stand at the school gates and said something like "I think X kid is experiencing child abuse" any teacher that hears you will have to act on that and will have to get social services involved because child abuse generally means a child is in actual danger.
Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs:
“The research varies, were you not aware of that or do you have a specific piece of research you favour?”
“The research varies, were you not aware of that or do you have a specific piece of research you favour?”
That's why I said suggests.
Yes it varies but most of it leans towards it making little difference.
Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs:
“Plus. can a gay man teach a young girl to be a woman?
Doesn't seem likely does it.”
“Plus. can a gay man teach a young girl to be a woman?
Doesn't seem likely does it.”
Are you from the 1950's? What are young girls having to learn how to be a woman? How to cook, clean and take care of her husband? We don't live in that world anymore.
Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs:
“Plus. can a gay man teach a young girl to be a woman?
Doesn't seem likely does it.”
“Plus. can a gay man teach a young girl to be a woman?
Doesn't seem likely does it.”
Personally I have never been taught to be a woman.....I just turned out to be one.....without the help of my parents parenting.
Originally Posted by BeeBumble:
“That's why I said suggests.
Yes it varies but most of it leans towards it making little difference.”
“That's why I said suggests.
Yes it varies but most of it leans towards it making little difference.”
"Most"..."leans toward". These are quite vague.
I'm just looking at nature, and the way things have been for millenia. To me i don't see how a woman can teach a young boy to be a man. So the optimal parenting orientation, until definitive research is published, should be considered to be mixed imo.
Originally Posted by flower 2:
“Personally I have never been taught to be a woman.....I just turned out to be one.....without the help of my parents parenting.”
“Personally I have never been taught to be a woman.....I just turned out to be one.....without the help of my parents parenting.”
lol, you're disputing the role of a mother entirely....
Ideally, mothers are a great idea.
Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs:
“"Most"..."leans toward". These are quite vague.
I'm just looking at nature, and the way things have been for millenia. To me i don't see how a woman can teach a young boy to be a man. So the optimal parenting orientation, until definitive research is published, should be considered to be mixed imo.”
“"Most"..."leans toward". These are quite vague.
I'm just looking at nature, and the way things have been for millenia. To me i don't see how a woman can teach a young boy to be a man. So the optimal parenting orientation, until definitive research is published, should be considered to be mixed imo.”
Research has been published you've been pointed towards it but ignored it because it didn't agree with your views.
Why should mixed be considered best if there's no research anyway? If there's no research then that's just pure guess work. I personally will go with what the studies and children themselves say. It may not be as definitive as you like but better than purely guessing.
Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs:
“lol, you're disputing the role of a mother entirely....
Ideally, mothers are a great idea.”
“lol, you're disputing the role of a mother entirely....
Ideally, mothers are a great idea.”
Parents any loving parents in general are a great idea.
Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs:
“lol, you're disputing the role of a mother entirely....
Ideally, mothers are a great idea.”
“lol, you're disputing the role of a mother entirely....
Ideally, mothers are a great idea.”
I will and am disputing your opinion, as a Mother of course!
Originally Posted by BeeBumble:
“Research has been published you've been pointed towards it but ignored it because it didn't agree with your views.”
“Research has been published you've been pointed towards it but ignored it because it didn't agree with your views.”
No. I read the evidence posted, disagreed with it, went off to find alternate evidence, disagreed with the authority behind that, and decided, quite rightly that the research is inconclusive. What's you're basis to agree with you're research?
Quote:
“Why should mixed be considered best if there's no research anyway? If there's no research then that's just pure guess work. I personally will go with what the studies and children themselves say. It may not be as definitive as you like but better than purely guessing.”
“Why should mixed be considered best if there's no research anyway? If there's no research then that's just pure guess work. I personally will go with what the studies and children themselves say. It may not be as definitive as you like but better than purely guessing.”
If the evidence is inconclusive then, natural, customary, usual, normal, edges it over blindly poking around in the dark.
Originally Posted by BeeBumble:
“Parents any parents in general are a great idea.”
“Parents any parents in general are a great idea.”
Can a father teach a young girl to be a woman? that is the question..
Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs:
“lol, you're disputing the role of a mother entirely....
Ideally, mothers are a great idea.”
“lol, you're disputing the role of a mother entirely....
Ideally, mothers are a great idea.”
Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs:
“No. I read the evidence posted, disagreed with it, went off to find alternate evidence, disagreed with the authority behind that, and decided, quite rightly that the research is inconclusive. What's you're basis to agree with you're research?
If the evidence is inconclusive then, natural, customary, usual, normal, edges it over blindly poking around in the dark.
Can a father teach a young girl to be a woman? that is the question..”
“No. I read the evidence posted, disagreed with it, went off to find alternate evidence, disagreed with the authority behind that, and decided, quite rightly that the research is inconclusive. What's you're basis to agree with you're research?
If the evidence is inconclusive then, natural, customary, usual, normal, edges it over blindly poking around in the dark.
Can a father teach a young girl to be a woman? that is the question..”
It's not poking round in the dark it's children quite clearly saying they're happy and don't want people speaking for them saying the way they grew up was child abuse. Just because somethings 'natural' and customary doesn't make it right. It was customary, usual and normal to have slaves at one point.
You still haven't elaborated on what on earth you mean by 'teaching her to become a woman' and find that quite a sexist comment imo.
Originally Posted by flower 2:
“I will and am disputing your opinion, as a Mother of course!”
“I will and am disputing your opinion, as a Mother of course!”
As you are entitled to do
Originally Posted by mseven1:
“How many children with 2 mothers were at your school?
So a child being made fun of for having 2 mums isn't being abused mentally by other children? There are many things children are bullied for but that isn't what we are discussing, it doesn't make it an invalid point because there are other things for children to make fun of and even it was you are agreeing with Winston because other children are mentally abusing the children due to the same sex couple”
“How many children with 2 mothers were at your school?
So a child being made fun of for having 2 mums isn't being abused mentally by other children? There are many things children are bullied for but that isn't what we are discussing, it doesn't make it an invalid point because there are other things for children to make fun of and even it was you are agreeing with Winston because other children are mentally abusing the children due to the same sex couple”
So what differentiates being bullied because you have gay parents from being bullied because you are weak, have a mental disability or a host of other reasons? Bullying is bullying and needs to be addressed as a whole in schools.
Originally Posted by BeeBumble:
“It's not poking round in the dark it's children quite clearly saying they're happy and don't want people speaking for them saying the way they grew up was child abuse. Just because somethings 'natural' and customary doesn't make it right. It was customary, usual and normal to have slaves at one point.”
“It's not poking round in the dark it's children quite clearly saying they're happy and don't want people speaking for them saying the way they grew up was child abuse. Just because somethings 'natural' and customary doesn't make it right. It was customary, usual and normal to have slaves at one point.”
The nuance is lost on you here... i'm giving up.
Quote:
“You still haven't elaborated on what on earth you mean by 'teaching her to become a woman' and find that quite a sexist comment imo.”
“You still haven't elaborated on what on earth you mean by 'teaching her to become a woman' and find that quite a sexist comment imo.”
Fair play, not the best choice of words, Call it nurturing then. Do you recognize a mother's nurturing role, and how it is distinctive from that of a fathers?
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