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F1 Coverage - The Verdict: 2016 Season |
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#526 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yardley, Birmingham
Posts: 5,980
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The problem with trying to 'spice things up' by introducing changes to qualifying, refueling, high deg tyres, DRS etc... Is that it may work to begin with but eventually teams/drivers figure it out & fans go back to complaining about how dull & predictable it all is.
This is a big part of why I am so against using gimmicks, You start out with 1 but when that gets figured out you have to bring in another & then another & you get stuck in a cycle of been utterly dependent on gimmicks & other artificial methods to keep things spiced up. By far the biggest problem with F1 the past 10-15 years has been that The FIA, Bernie & now the teams seem to be constantly, blindly throwing stuff around without giving anything any proper thought & so whatever sticks either doesn't work as planned, creates additional problems or quickly fall's off & requires another sticking plaster to cover the gap. Instead of repeating this mistake 1 more time, I say that all the planned changes for 2017 be scrapped, The strategy group be dissolved & Bernie & the teams be completely removed from all decision making regarding the next rule set. Jean Todt should grow a pair, Take control of the sport he's supposed to be governing & put together a proper technical working group made up of people that are currently outside of F1 (Guys like Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Patrick Head, John Barnard, Gordon Murray, Steve Nichols etc...) who will be given until 2020 & whatever resources they need to put together a properly thought out set of regulations that ensure F1 is fast & features close, competitive racing without the need for any gimmicks. You could also have Ex-drivers as well as current drivers involved to give feedback & advice on some aspects. I'd also like to see Bernie removed from his position & CVC sell F1 to someone who actually gives a damn about the sport rather than the size of the cheque it puts in there bank account. Lets get it online so that it has a larger reach, Lets distribute the funds in a way that is beneficial to all teams & lets not rob circuit owners to the point where ticket prices have to be as high as they are & where many traditional circuits are under constant threat. |
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#527 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yardley, Birmingham
Posts: 5,980
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Day 2:
SSN Reports: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3t...-reports_sport Paddock Uncut: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3t...ck-uncut_sport Ted's Notebook: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3t...notebook_sport |
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#528 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 2,942
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Thanks for the links Stef.
The qualifying we have now is the best it's ever been. The new format means that a driver is heavily punished for a mistake on their first run and that just means they'll all drive conservatively so as not to be eliminated. It might produce the odd shock result, though we get those anyway, but I don't see how having less cars is any improvement. As said I want to see 10 cars going for it at the end of Q3, not 2. |
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#529 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,573
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Ted Kravitz speaking earlier in the Barcelona paddock on the qualy format changes; Quote:
The response we are getting from the viewers and the fans is that 'qualifying wasn’t broken so why fix it?' The message we are also getting from our viewers and the fans here at the circuit is that all this fiddling around on the edges with gimmickry is that it shows that Formula 1 bosses are fundamentally out of touch with what the real fans want – which is good, close racing on a Sunday. They don’t want this. It’s more gimmickry and it’s too complicated for the armchair fans to understand. More thoughts from Ted;Sure, it will be interesting and it will jumble up the grid. But that is no good if, when you go racing, the front-wings are so complicated that anyone following anyone else on the track will lose 50% of their downforce. And fundamentally that is what is wrong with F1 at the moment. Quote:
I wonder whether the F1 bosses on the Commission pay attention to how F1 cars produce quick qualifying times. The best times are set when the tyre is on its first or second hot lap. After that, the best performance of the tyre is gone and the lap times don’t improve.So the reality is that teams will not just go out onto the track and keep going round and round to set quicker times. They’ll go out, set what they hope is the quickest time on a fresh tyre, come back in, and let the slower cars get dropped one by one as the session progresses. From Sky F1 Mark HughesThe other thing that will upset the drivers and engineers who actually have to work with these new rules is they were dreamt up and imposed after all the other rule changes we’ve had, especially the ones about tyre usage. If you know now during qualifying that you’re going to have to be on track for quite a few laps, you might have chosen a different tyre allocation from Pirelli than you had when you were dealing with the old qualifying rules. Talk about moving the goal posts. Quote:
So, musical chairs qualifying it's to be?
Stewards are going to need eyes in backs of heads to see every single blocking move, esp Q1. |
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#530 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,329
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I don't mind the new qualifying format (If i've got it right, basically it's the driver who's last every 90secs gets knocked out - thereby effectively forming the grid up 1-by-1) actually. Although I don't like that it still takes place over 3 mini-sessions. I always hated that format: "AND HAMILTON GOES FASTEST! Oh wait, this session only decides the bottom 5 of the grid so that doesn't matter right now"...
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#531 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Jean Todt should grow a pair, Take control of the sport he's supposed to be governing......
Perhaps those the work is delegated to are the ones who need to get their collective rears in gear...? |
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#532 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,329
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Quote:
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think this is a bit harsh on Todt - Formula 1 is only the tip of the iceberg as far as the FIA's remit is concerned, and he has been quoted as saying that it accounts for less than 10% of his job.
Perhaps those the work is delegated to are the ones who need to get their collective rears in gear...? |
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#533 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,197
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Quote:
New qualifying format, because that's what was wrong
![]() http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...r-2016-675278/ A car running around the circuit is 5 seconds into a 1:40 lap when the timer is reset to 1 minute. That driver has no opportunity to set a faster time nor does any driver 34 seconds ahead of him. The guy 6 seconds behind him does have that chance as does every driver up to 53 seconds behind that. What an absolutely stupid idea!
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#534 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,329
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Quote:
Sounds like an awful idea to me and I see one massive flaw in the plan, which is this:
A car running around the circuit is 5 seconds into a 1:40 lap when the timer is reset to 1 minute. That driver has no opportunity to set a faster time nor does any driver 34 seconds ahead of him. The guy 6 seconds behind him does have that chance as does every driver up to 53 seconds behind that. What an absolutely stupid idea! ![]() |
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#535 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,573
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Bernie quote on the new qualy; Quote:
The idea really is that it will be the same as qualifying in wet conditions,
Maybe one or two of the hotshoes aren't going to make it (to the front). So we won't see the obvious on the front of the grid. |
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#536 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,197
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Quote:
They might tweak it so that at the time the clock hits 90secs, the flying lap the drivers are currently on must be the final one before they can get knocked out.
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#537 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,800
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It sounds awfully complicated. And Eric Boullier seemed to suggest it was the last lap that counts, not the fastest lap.
Also the Autosport article says "drivers must be on track throughout each part until they get knocked out." So if Boullier is wrong, the cars will set one fast lap then just cruise around (like the good old "fuel burn phase" until the next "phase" (of the same qualifying segment ) is entered
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#538 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: York
Posts: 426
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Quote:
They might tweak it so that at the time the clock hits 90secs, the flying lap the drivers are currently on must be the final one before they can get knocked out.
Say the top 3 is Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel when the time hits 1.30 to go in Q3, Vettel had just crossed the line to start a new lap, while Rosberg crosses the line just after the final elimination point to start his attempt at pole. In theory it should be a head to head between the top two, but who are the top 2? Vettel completes his lap to go second, meaning Rosberg was only third a minute and a half earlier. Seconds later Rosberg crosses the line with the fastest time of the session, but it'd count for absolutely nothing. The cut-offs have to be fixed points or it won't work at all. |
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#539 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 234
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Q3 looks like it will be pretty boring if the drivers have to stay on track - they'll already have used the best life from their tyres in the first five minutes and won't improve their times, so will basically just be circulating as individuals are picked off for the rest of the session.
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#540 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,283
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Quote:
The problem with trying to 'spice things up' by introducing changes to qualifying, refueling, high deg tyres, DRS etc... Is that it may work to begin with but eventually teams/drivers figure it out & fans go back to complaining about how dull & predictable it all is.
This is a big part of why I am so against using gimmicks, You start out with 1 but when that gets figured out you have to bring in another & then another & you get stuck in a cycle of been utterly dependent on gimmicks & other artificial methods to keep things spiced up. By far the biggest problem with F1 the past 10-15 years has been that The FIA, Bernie & now the teams seem to be constantly, blindly throwing stuff around without giving anything any proper thought & so whatever sticks either doesn't work as planned, creates additional problems or quickly fall's off & requires another sticking plaster to cover the gap. Instead of repeating this mistake 1 more time, I say that all the planned changes for 2017 be scrapped, The strategy group be dissolved & Bernie & the teams be completely removed from all decision making regarding the next rule set. Jean Todt should grow a pair, Take control of the sport he's supposed to be governing & put together a proper technical working group made up of people that are currently outside of F1 (Guys like Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Patrick Head, John Barnard, Gordon Murray, Steve Nichols etc...) who will be given until 2020 & whatever resources they need to put together a properly thought out set of regulations that ensure F1 is fast & features close, competitive racing without the need for any gimmicks. You could also have Ex-drivers as well as current drivers involved to give feedback & advice on some aspects. I'd also like to see Bernie removed from his position & CVC sell F1 to someone who actually gives a damn about the sport rather than the size of the cheque it puts in there bank account. Lets get it online so that it has a larger reach, Lets distribute the funds in a way that is beneficial to all teams & lets not rob circuit owners to the point where ticket prices have to be as high as they are & where many traditional circuits are under constant threat. |
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#541 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 2,942
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Quote:
But by the time everyone finishes the lap they're on, the time could already be into the 90 second period after that, you can't finish the lap you're on or it would be a total mess, like this...
Say the top 3 is Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel when the time hits 1.30 to go in Q3, Vettel had just crossed the line to start a new lap, while Rosberg crosses the line just after the final elimination point to start his attempt at pole. In theory it should be a head to head between the top two, but who are the top 2? Vettel completes his lap to go second, meaning Rosberg was only third a minute and a half earlier. Seconds later Rosberg crosses the line with the fastest time of the session, but it'd count for absolutely nothing. The cut-offs have to be fixed points or it won't work at all. This sounds like one of those things that's reported as fact when it's just a proposal that gets immediately thrown out at the next meeting. Let's hope so. |
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#542 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,342
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More gimmicks to 'deal with' the lack of real racing caused by their previous gimmicks that were meant to deal with the lack of racing...
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#543 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,197
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Quote:
Wider tracks to facilitate more overtaking, financial limit on how much teams can spend on their cars (admittedly difficult to enforce), some sort of rule that every few races drivers who have qualified near the front of the grid are moved back in the pack for the start. And if all else fails, incorporate some of the features from Super Mario Karts to give the trailing drivers a chance to catch up. Who wouldn't want to see Pastor Maldonado in 7th place armed with three brown shells on the penultimate lap at Silverstone?
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#544 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,329
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Actually I would like to see single-lap qualifying returned a la 2003. No messing about Re. blocking, and the drivers only have 1 chance to get a lap in (after all, they should have got up to speed in the Free Practice sessions).
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#545 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1,823
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I bet there have been millions of calculations done for the new qualifying system already by most of the teams.
BTW, isn't Manor looking good! |
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#546 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 29,512
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The F1 Show, in its current format, is no more. Half hour episodes will air on the Friday of each weekend, premièring at 08:00 (i.e. 30 minutes after FP2) on Friday 18th March. Looks like the new format will not be live, so definitely a sign of cost-cutting.
In its place, the Midweek Report goes weekly under the F1 Report title, again 30 minutes in length. |
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#547 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,806
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Just to follow up on what Dave said as well, all practice sessions (and Qualifying) for the AUS GP will be simulcast on Sky Sports 1. Wonder how long it will be before we get the 'F1 Channel Axed' comments due to simulcasting...
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#548 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,650
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Quote:
Just to follow up on what Dave said as well, all practice sessions (and Qualifying) for the AUS GP will be simulcast on Sky Sports 1. Wonder how long it will be before we get the 'F1 Channel Axed' comments due to simulcasting...
Sky should show the shared live races with C4 on pick tv and sky 1 |
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#549 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,806
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Quote:
SKY F1 should be axed
Sky should show the shared live races with C4 on pick tv and sky 1 Edit: Surely not both at the same time?? |
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#550 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,396
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I'm beginning to think the media must have got hold of the wrong end of the stick with this qualifying.
Surely the only sensible interpretation of eliminations is that things run much as they do now, and drivers can go out whenever they like, except there's a gradual system where they progressively disallow the driver with the slowest time (of those that have not yet been eliminated) from taking any further part. The effect of this would be * The quick drivers can't afford to wait until the end of qualifying to set their time, they have to get a decent lap in before the eliminations start being applied * A driver with a car problem at the start of a session has much less time to get that corrected before they risk being eliminated. * A bad lap early on means you're more likely to be eliminated I just can't see how it could work otherwise; if drivers are forced to be out for the whole time, that totally changes qualifying into being a combination of the old fuel burn runs, lift & coast and tyre saving. Whilst I'm still of the opinion that qualifying wasn't the thing that needed fixing (except for the possibility that slightly more random grids might mix up strategies and promote more genuine overtaking) has this all just been a bit of miscommunication from the strategy group? |
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