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F1 Coverage - The Verdict: 2016 Season
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FOM Fan
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Guv'nor:
“UK TV distribution for Sky. Can't see streaming being available in territories with an existing TV deal unless via a VPN.”

Streaming isn't TV... And this is not an existing TV deal, this is a new one (from 2019).
The Full Sparky
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by DEmberton:
“Maybe Sky think they have exclusive rights and will later find out that they don't.

An FOM streaming service would surely be sold on premium content, as is Sky, so it seems odd to me that Sky would agree a deal where they're providing a lesser service, unless it is simply a matter of wanting to do it cheap. But £50m per year doesn't sound that cheap.”

it does when IIRC c4 are paying 35m a year. Of course either or both figures could be wrong.
gomezz
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by DEmberton:
“I think people are making too big a deal of it not being live. I want to watch it live, as do most serious fans”

Many serious fans are too busy out racing themselves to watch it live.
Judio
24-03-2016
And the subs now go up by five quid a month to pay for this rubbish.

There are only two drivers who can win
BenFranklin
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“They watch the highlights & go:
"Wow, this is pretty cool & it's only the highlights - I wonder if the full thing will be any better?
*Google's how to watch live F1 in the UK*
Oh look, I see I can watch it on Sky Sports, or I can stream it on F1's website.
*Pays £x for one race/week/months streaming on formula1.com*
Hey, this is pretty good, and I can watch live onboards too!
*Returns next race*.”

I wouldn't quit that Business Studies A-Level too soon.

Quote:
“Of course, if they haven't any plans to do this, then that's a shame. 4k aside, there's only so long you can bury your head in the sand re. new broadcasting technologies/formats.”

How is streaming online a new technology/format? We can do that now.
FOM Fan
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by BenFranklin:
“How is streaming online a new technology/format? We can do that now.”

It's new as in it's only in the past few years that sports bodies have started streaming direct to fans. And i'm not talking about the practicalities, i'm talking about the legal issues re. online rights. If FOM have not taken the opportunity to grab online rights from the broadcasters (so that FOM can then start streaming to the fans directly), then they've made a mistake, in my view.
Clarat
24-03-2016
Dreadful dreadful news.

The only reason Sky have been somewhat successful with F1 is the years and years of free to air coverage which built an audience. They will do OK in 2019 but the audience will die away over time and it will become just another series. In fact if other series are sensible they will capitalise on this and get good FTA coverage to take advertisers and viewers away from F1.

crazy crazy crazy
Tom2K
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“It's new as in it's only in the past few years that sports bodies have started streaming direct to fans. And i'm not talking about the practicalities, i'm talking about the legal issues re. online rights. If FOM have not taken the opportunity to grab online rights from the broadcasters (so that FOM can then start streaming to the fans directly), then they've made a mistake, in my view.”

But will this make more money than grabbing the money from the Pay TV broadcasters who already provide streaming coverage. Also the cost of these streaming services isn't exactly cheap, Dorna provide Moto GP Videopass for what £155? For fans maybe this is a good thing, but F1 needs to attract causal fans. If these fans won't pay for Pay TV what chance do FOM have of convincing them to pay for a separate service that they don't even know exists?
Ellie666
24-03-2016
i don't get all the sympathy for C4 - are we really to believe that they ,if not fully aware of the deal, didn't understand that there is a good chance this would happen?!
Ten_Ben
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Ellie666:
“i don't get all the sympathy for C4 - are we really to believe that they ,if not fully aware of the deal, didn't understand that there is a good chance this would happen?!”

If they had a chance to bid and lost out, then that's one thing but (presumably) not being given a chance to bid along with, say, ITV, BT etc is something else entirely. That's what deserves sympathy, especially given the timing.
Clarat
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Ellie666:
“i don't get all the sympathy for C4 - are we really to believe that they ,if not fully aware of the deal, didn't understand that there is a good chance this would happen?!”

The start of this contract is not for 3 years, seems reasonable that they might have expected at least a year to prove themselves and fully understand the FTA advertising potential which might have allowed them to outbid Sky for all or part of this contract?
FOM Fan
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Ten_Ben:
“If they had a chance to bid and lost out, then that's one thing but (presumably) not being given a chance to bid along with, say, ITV, BT etc is something else entirely. That's what deserves sympathy, especially given the timing.”

Maybe they offered & said no. Why do we assume that broadcasters love F1 & all want to be the ones to broadcast it? What's said in public in a press release isn't always the same as the attitude internally? It's known that ITV only wanted to show F1 again if they could sell ads in it, if they couldn't sell ads then they didn't want to know...

Originally Posted by Tom2K:
“F1 needs to attract causal fans. If these fans won't pay for Pay TV what chance do FOM have of convincing them to pay for a separate service that they don't even know exists?”

They find out that it exists by doing what most people do when they don't know something: Google. Then if they really want to watch it all live, they either pay for sky, or pay less for streaming on F1.com for example. £155 a year is still cheaper than the £40-odd minimum a month you pay for BT Sport, and you get extra content aside from Dorna's main world feed that isn't provided on BT.
batdude_uk1
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Clarat:
“Dreadful dreadful news.

The only reason Sky have been somewhat successful with F1 is the years and years of free to air coverage which built an audience. They will do OK in 2019 but the audience will die away over time and it will become just another series. In fact if other series are sensible they will capitalise on this and get good FTA coverage to take advertisers and viewers away from F1.

crazy crazy crazy”

Formula E is on ITV 4, could that take the place in people's hearts that want to watch a free to air series?
SkipTracer
24-03-2016
F1 is the only sport I’ve followed in the past but the last couple of years I’ve started to give up and I just can’t be assed trying to avoid the news before highlights are shown.

TBH my interest in F1 has only remained strong because of Hamilton and Button before him but I did not bother to watch last Sundays race because I accidently seen the results on the Sky News ticker early in the morning but the race was still on my TV but I was doing other things and only sort of listening but heard some Spanish guy had a crash but I could not be even bothered to go into the room with the TV to see what’s it was all about, yes I’ve got that fed up of it since going part time live.

The past 10 years with the only sport that could keep me in an armchair for 3 hours is more or less dead now for me.

F1 R.I.P.
Tom2K
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“They find out that it exists by doing what most people do when they don't know something: Google. Then if they really want to watch it all live, they either pay for sky, or pay less for streaming on F1.com for example. £155 a year is still cheaper than the £40-odd minimum a month you pay for BT Sport, and you get extra content aside from Dorna's main world feed that isn't provided on BT.”

I pay £13 per month for Youview from Plusnet including BT Sport in HD. They give me Moto GP races and archive content on television as well as many other sports and entertainment for a cost of £156 per year! My life isn't just F1 and Moto GP you know. (I'm not including broadband costs, but amazingly the consumer can't avoid these even with FOM streaming)

I'm talking about casual fans here, they aren't searching out F1 from FOM. Most likely if you google F1 streaming well I think you know the answer to that one

Also good luck on the ambition that FOM will undercut Sky, I'm interested to see how many races will feature on Sky Sports Mix or even Sky 1. Surely even Sky know exclusive seasons tucked away on Sky Sports F1 won't help keep people interested.
FOM Fan
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Tom2K:
“I pay £13 per month for Youview from Plusnet including BT Sport in HD. They give me Moto GP races and archive content on television as well as many other sports and entertainment for a cost of £156 per year! My life isn't just F1 and Moto GP you know. (I'm not including broadband costs, but amazingly the consumer can't avoid these even with FOM streaming)

I'm talking about casual fans here, they aren't searching out F1 from FOM. Most likely if you google F1 streaming well I think you know the answer to that one

Also good luck on the ambition that FOM will undercut Sky, I'm interested to see how many races will feature on Sky Sports Mix or even Sky 1. Surely even Sky know exclusive seasons tucked away on Sky Sports F1 won't help keep people interested.”

Yeah, but they're searching out an F1 stream. Now if the official website of the sport starts offering streaming, then Google is most likely going to stick that at the top of their page. Plus all they need is a few press releases, newspaper articles saying "Well for 2019, FOM have launched their own F1 streaming services, which is substantially cheaper than Sky's (given you're not paying for extra stuff you don't want) yet still offers all the sessions with commentary etc. etc. "

If fans want to watch F1 legally, they will search out the best option - any savvy consumer will, whether they're a casual fan or not.
Rodney McKay
24-03-2016
I always thought it was the car makers who wanted F1 free to air? Mercedes, Renault, Honda are hardly going to invest millions in return for TV airtime if all most might see is a cut down highlights package.
Tom2K
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“Yeah, but they're searching out an F1 stream. Now if the official website of the sport starts offering streaming, then Google is most likely going to stick that at the top of their page. Plus all they need is a few press releases, newspaper articles saying "Well for 2019, FOM have launched their own F1 streaming services, which is substantially cheaper than Sky's (given you're not paying for extra stuff you don't want) yet still offers all the sessions with commentary etc. etc. "

If fans want to watch F1 legally, they will search out the best option - any savvy consumer will, whether they're a casual fan or not.”

Yeah that'll work...

Hi, we're FOM we are cheaper than the guys we sold the broadcast rights to and we don't have the extras that fans expect from F1 coverage when they watch on TV. That'll go down well at the next rights negotiations.

Give up seriously if FOM do streaming surely its a premium over the top product, not for the casual fans. Look at how the NBA or NHL does streaming, by taking broadcast feeds. FOM have positioned themselves well with Sky, they aren't going to compete for the same audience.
FOM Fan
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Tom2K:
“Hi, we're FOM we are cheaper than the guys we sold the broadcast rights to and we don't have the extras that fans expect from F1 coverage when they watch on TV. That'll go down well at the next rights negotiations.”

What are the extras that fans expect then? Pre&Post session analysis, Driver interviews? There's no reason that FOM couldn't do their own. They already do limited stuff like that on the F1 app anyway.

Personally I don't watch F1 on TV for the stupid pointless banal features like Herbert & lazenby playing dune buggies with an F1 driver, nor do I want to see 15 replays of the same incident on the SkyPad that i've already seen live anyway...

Personally I turn the F1 on 5 mins before the race starts & turn it off again after the podium. And any pre & post race stuff I can usually find on various motorsport websites anyway.


When I said "extra stuff you don't want". I was referring to the fact that with a TV subscription, you're forced to pay for all the other Sky entertainment channels & the rest of the Sky Sports channels - I wasn't referring to stuff that's part of a typical Race TV broadcast.
Ten_Ben
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“Maybe they offered & said no. Why do we assume that broadcasters love F1 & all want to be the ones to broadcast it? What's said in public in a press release isn't always the same as the attitude internally? It's known that ITV only wanted to show F1 again if they could sell ads in it, if they couldn't sell ads then they didn't want to know...

They find out that it exists by doing what most people do when they don't know something: Google. Then if they really want to watch it all live, they either pay for sky, or pay less for streaming on F1.com for example. £155 a year is still cheaper than the £40-odd minimum a month you pay for BT Sport, and you get extra content aside from Dorna's main world feed that isn't provided on BT.”

Oh, come on, not even you really believes that, surely? C4 isn't really in a position to say yes or no after one race and certainly wouldn't have expected to be looking at 2019 just yet anyway.

Locking yourself into a six-year deal that doesn't even start for three years smacks of desperation to me. Who knows what state the sport will be in by then? Especially with next year's regulation changes.

As much as I have loved F1 for 30+ years, my interest isn't what it was and I'm not that bothered enough to pay to watch it. Indeed, I half wonder whether C4's contract allows them to exit say after this year if the season turns out to be poor, either in race quality or viewer numbers.

It's difficult to see how putting the whole thing behind a paywall actually helps anyone apart from BE and CVC at all - Sky is paying more money and will get some extra viewers, for sure, but enough? A large proportion of people willing to pay to watch every race live will already have Sky. Whether the finances will add up without increasing subscription charges again must be very borderline.

With an ever-increasing amount of alternative entertainment options and calls on people's time, ease of accessibility is key. Few people get that - there are not the hundreds of thousands of people who will actively search out F1 (fans, semi-fans or casual viewers), as you seem to think. They'll simply find something else to fill the time, it's not difficult.
FOM Fan
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Ten_Ben:
“Oh, come on, not even you really believes that, surely? C4 isn't really in a position to say yes or no after one race and certainly wouldn't have expected to be looking at 2019 just yet anyway.

Locking yourself into a six-year deal that doesn't even start for three years smacks of desperation to me. Who knows what state the sport will be in by then? Especially with next year's regulation changes.

As much as I have loved F1 for 30+ years, my interest isn't what it was and I'm not that bothered enough to pay to watch it. Indeed, I half wonder whether C4's contract allows them to exit say after this year if the season turns out to be poor, either in race quality or viewer numbers.

It's difficult to see how putting the whole thing behind a paywall actually helps anyone apart from BE and CVC at all - Sky is paying more money and will get some extra viewers, for sure, but enough? A large proportion of people willing to pay to watch every race live will already have Sky. Whether the finances will add up without increasing subscription charges again must be very borderline.

With an ever-increasing amount of alternative entertainment options and calls on people's time, ease of accessibility is key. Few people get that - there are not the hundreds of thousands of people who will actively search out F1 (fans, semi-fans or casual viewers), as you seem to think. They'll simply find something else to fill the time, it's not difficult.”

I think it's likely that C4 agreed to see out the remaining 3 years of BT's contract, knowing full well that Sky had nabbed (or were planning to nab) exclusive rights for 2019 onwards... It's pretty likely that Sky wanted to ink a new deal with FOM sooner rather than later, in order to stop BT trying to nab the rights.

Any legal contract takes weeks & weeks of discussions - you don't think that FOM just popped round C4's HQ last Monday and said "Hey guys, nice job yesterday, do you want F1 exclusively for 2019 onwards?"...

I reckon that the bulk of these negotiations most likely took place over the winter.

Tbh if you're not bothered to watch the sport right now, then you have no place to comment on it. Given that last week's race was pretty exciting, If the season keeps up at that rate, viewing figures will slowly rise & I doubt Channel 4 will exit the contract mid-season.

I don't like this split we have in F1 between FTA and Pay - i'd rather it was just fully one or the other, naturally i'd prefer FTA but then I'm not wedded to it. F1 is & always has been a minority sport - the same with all motorsports. FTA coverage is not a god-given right anyway. We've seen this year that the Olympics won't be fully FTA from now on, and all sport is moving to Pay TV. Formula E is under the constant threat of going Pay TV as well it seems, the BTCC is the only holdout IMO for live, FTA coverage in the UK.
DEmberton
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by Ellie666:
“i don't get all the sympathy for C4 - are we really to believe that they ,if not fully aware of the deal, didn't understand that there is a good chance this would happen?!”

WHS. C4 signed up for 3 years, not 3 years and a vague promise of continuing. If they wanted longer they should have negotiated for longer.

For all we know Sky will sub-contract the FTA part of this deal right back to C4. And then we'll have most of what we have now, except of course only the one race will be live.
Ten_Ben
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“I think it's likely that C4 agreed to see out the remaining 3 years of BT's contract, knowing full well that Sky had nabbed (or were planning to nab) exclusive rights for 2019 onwards... It's pretty likely that Sky wanted to ink a new deal with FOM sooner rather than later, in order to stop BT trying to nab the rights.

Any legal contract takes weeks & weeks of discussions - you don't think that FOM just popped round C4's HQ last Monday and said "Hey guys, nice job yesterday, do you want F1 exclusively for 2019 onwards?"...

I reckon that the bulk of these negotiations most likely took place over the winter.

Tbh if you're not bothered to watch the sport right now, then you have no place to comment on it. Given that last week's race was pretty exciting, If the season keeps up at that rate, viewing figures will slowly rise & I doubt Channel 4 will exit the contract mid-season.”

Sky could easily have been in negotiation through the winter, I doubt anybody disputes that. Whether C4 had any inkling is quite another matter entirely.

Of course I'm entitled to comment. F1 has been a big part of my life for 30 years - that doesn't mean I can't see that it's slowly killing itself. I didn't say I'm not bothered to watch it, I said I'm not bothered enough to PAY to watch it. Big difference. What's so disheartening is that the sport doesn't even seem to recognise it has a massive problem, let alone display any confidence in being able to sort itself out.
Tom2K
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“What are the extras that fans expect then? Pre&Post session analysis, Driver interviews? There's no reason that FOM couldn't do their own. They already do limited stuff like that on the F1 app anyway.

Personally I don't watch F1 on TV for the stupid pointless banal features like Herbert & lazenby playing dune buggies with an F1 driver, nor do I want to see 15 replays of the same incident on the SkyPad that i've already seen live anyway...

Personally I turn the F1 on 5 mins before the race starts & turn it off again after the podium. And any pre & post race stuff I can usually find on various motorsport websites anyway.


When I said "extra stuff you don't want". I was referring to the fact that with a TV subscription, you're forced to pay for all the other Sky entertainment channels & the rest of the Sky Sports channels - I wasn't referring to stuff that's part of a typical Race TV broadcast.”

And I'm pointing out the casual fan isn't you quite clearly. Look at the C4 coverage and BBC before it, Formula 1 is about not only the racing but the features, personality and colour to entice people to watch. The manufacturers and sponsors will not want people like us watching in this way. You might not want race analysis, people like me do.

I know what you're referring to, thats why the value is so low to a family. One person watching F1 alone in a dark room with no other contact with society might see the value in your package but in the real world its not marketable if for an equivalent amount you could say see 10 races on Sky Sports Mix plus entertainment or whatever. Also maybe people like sports other than F1, life would be really expensive if they were all to be paid for in this way.

I can't see any reason why FOM would want to start streaming an inferior product for cheaper than their own broadcast partners when they can team up and offer a premium product....
Jeffmister
24-03-2016
Originally Posted by aurichie:
“I'm sure this investment in programming will have played a big role in the sport choosing to back sky's vision and dedication versus the FTA stuff that has no certainty or long term commitment attached to it.”

Ignoring your "write every post like a Sky press release" approach, how can the FTA broadcasts have any certainty when FOM goes ahead & did what they did yesterday!? This is on the same day the drivers released a 'open letter' criticizing among other things F1's growing shift to favoring Pay TV deals over FTA exposure for goodness sakes.

I can completely understand the logic behind Sky seeking an extremely early extension to their agreement considering the rights auctions ahead in the next few years. However it's mind-boggling why FOM accepted it for three key reasons:
1) If they played their cards right, they could have had a bidding war in 2018 between Sky, BT and possibly Channel 4 for the rights. Now they have thrown away that golden opportunity and allowed Sky (it seems) to get away with significantly underpaying for the improved contract if the figures being reported are right.
2) Yesterday's announcement was the sports rights equivalent of FOM giving C4 the finger. On the week after they've broadcast their first round in a three year deal, C4 have now essentially become the longest 'lame duck' broadcaster for any sport in a long time. There's no incentive for then to go above and beyond what they've already doing in terms of their coverage beyond this year when the only hope of them continuing their coverage beyond the current package are highlight rights and a 'token' live race for Sky to simply satisfy legislative requirements.
3) Going back to the drivers letter, it's short-sighted thinking by FOM to hedge their future growth on being a Pay TV sport. You can criticize how the 2012 BBC/Sky deal came about & the sequence of events it resulted in. However at least that deal had/has (through C4 stepping in) between the 'casual' FTA viewer being able to see 1/2 the season live and extended highlights for the other 1/2 while those willing/able to pay are able to see every session of every round. However from 2019 with the balance tipped entirely in Sky's favor, removing the ability for 'casual' viewers to follow the sport in a meaningful way will only hurt the sport in the long-run
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