Originally Posted by Hacker Harrier:
“Edited for my amusement.”
“Edited for my amusement.”
True still....
F1 Coverage - The Verdict: 2016 Season
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Originally Posted by _SpeedRacer_:
“Figures dropped drastically:”
“Figures dropped drastically:”
Last year it had a 30.8% share. This year it had a 30.2% share. That's not a drastic drop, it's an almost insignificant drop.
"It's not dead. It's resting."
I wonder what could I possibly be referring to with this clip?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE
I wonder what could I possibly be referring to with this clip?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE
Originally Posted by believethehype:
“Last year it had a 30.8% share. This year it had a 30.2% share. That's not a drastic drop, it's an almost insignificant drop.”
“Last year it had a 30.8% share. This year it had a 30.2% share. That's not a drastic drop, it's an almost insignificant drop.”
The figures have now been amended - this year's peak share on C4 was actually 20.2%.
BBC (2015):
Average - 26.0%
Peak - 30.8%
C4 (2016):
Average - 16.2%
Peak - 20.2%
EDIT: The 2016 combined peak (ie C4 + Sky) was 30.2% - but that's not a like for like comparison as the 30.8% figure for 2015 was the BBC (ie BBC only) peak.
See link - the figures are down very substantially - but exactly by how much depends upon which measure you choose to use.
http://f1broadcasting.co/
Originally Posted by clewsy:
“Realistically how easily could a rival series be created?
Could the teams just pack up all the kit and roll it back out in a new series eg: R1 Series (made it up for an example).
Or does much of the spec and content belong to F1 so it's not as simple as breaking away?”
“Realistically how easily could a rival series be created?
Could the teams just pack up all the kit and roll it back out in a new series eg: R1 Series (made it up for an example).
Or does much of the spec and content belong to F1 so it's not as simple as breaking away?”
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“That's the thing though, the teams don't want the logistical headache of having to set up & regulate an entirely series. Given that the teams would need to collectively agree on: Technical & Sporting Regs, circuit contracts, broadcasting contracts, 3rd party suppliers such as tyre suppliers, that sort of thing. It would never happen, or if it did happen, it would collapse in a few years like FOTA did. Also Bernie owns the rights to the "GP1" name. Also i'm sure most 3rd party suppliers of kit the teams currently have would most likely sever any existing contracts they have.”
“That's the thing though, the teams don't want the logistical headache of having to set up & regulate an entirely series. Given that the teams would need to collectively agree on: Technical & Sporting Regs, circuit contracts, broadcasting contracts, 3rd party suppliers such as tyre suppliers, that sort of thing. It would never happen, or if it did happen, it would collapse in a few years like FOTA did. Also Bernie owns the rights to the "GP1" name. Also i'm sure most 3rd party suppliers of kit the teams currently have would most likely sever any existing contracts they have.”
There's also things like travel cost's & even arranging & organizing the travel which is all currently handled by FOM.
I would suspect that coming up with a formula would in the short term be fairly easy as they could just run what they have now while discussing what to do moving forward (As happened when CART/IRL split in 1996, IRL ran year old CART reg's for the 1st year while formulating there own for 1997).
The problem would be the cost's because I doubt the teams have the resources to put into everything required to start & run a new series. All those contracts that would need sorting out & paying for are one thing but there's also the things like transportation cost's & circuit accommodation that are I believe currently all managed by FOM.
As I said a week ago there was discussion back in 2005 & 2009 that the cost's were a stumbling block for teams in there breakaway threat & back then they had a lot more funding from sponsors & the big manufacturer's. Without that I don't see a breakaway series as a viable threat because as I say I don't believe they could afford to do it....... Unless they were able to get some form of external help with the funding.
To be honest though even if they managed to put everything together to form a breakaway I don't think it would work any better than what we have now because like we saw with CART & as we have seen with F1 over the years, The teams are incapable of doing things for the good of the series because there all out looking at things from the perspective of what benefits them.
Look at F1 currently, Mercedes don't want to do much to the engine regulations because they have an advantage there while Red Bull want engines to be less of a factor with aero been a bigger factor because they have Adrian Newey who is probably the best aerodynamicist in F1.
And lets not forget that the CART/IndyCar split practically destroyed US open-wheel racing, to a point that it's only now beginning to recover from...
Jean Todt has said that the current governance agreements expire in 2020, at which point it's only then he could begin to make changes, and he wants F1 to be governed solely by the FIA. He's right tbh. If he tried to make sweeping changes now, the teams on the strategy group could probably sue.
Jean Todt has said that the current governance agreements expire in 2020, at which point it's only then he could begin to make changes, and he wants F1 to be governed solely by the FIA. He's right tbh. If he tried to make sweeping changes now, the teams on the strategy group could probably sue.
What annoys me is when anyone (be that FIA, FOM or pundits etc.) claim something is too confusing. You had Damon Hill complaining in Australia last time (around Q2 & Q3) that he couldn't understand when the 90second time-out was up, and I'm shouting at the TV saying: "LOOK AT THE BLOODY GRAPHICS MAN - There's a frigging bright red 90sec coundown clock around the position that's going to be eliminated!"
And conversely, the FIA/FOM is saying that a switch to the 2015 quali system will be too confusing to fans. Well that's just silly, all the broadcasters have to say is: "We're doing quali like it was last year" and then that's the matter closed. I was also p'd off by the broadcasters making the explanations of the 2016 elimination format needlessly complicated, by emphasising stuff that doesn't need to be emphasised, like the 8,7,6min period before the eliminations start in each of the segments.
But of course the broadcasters have a vested interest in this too. That's why we're not getting a single session, because the broadcasters (like C4 etc.) want the split between the segments in order to show adverts...
And conversely, the FIA/FOM is saying that a switch to the 2015 quali system will be too confusing to fans. Well that's just silly, all the broadcasters have to say is: "We're doing quali like it was last year" and then that's the matter closed. I was also p'd off by the broadcasters making the explanations of the 2016 elimination format needlessly complicated, by emphasising stuff that doesn't need to be emphasised, like the 8,7,6min period before the eliminations start in each of the segments.
But of course the broadcasters have a vested interest in this too. That's why we're not getting a single session, because the broadcasters (like C4 etc.) want the split between the segments in order to show adverts...
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“What annoys me is when anyone (be that FIA, FOM or pundits etc.) claim something is too confusing.”
“What annoys me is when anyone (be that FIA, FOM or pundits etc.) claim something is too confusing.”
This is something you do loads in this thread about the actual races.
Originally Posted by BenFranklin:
“This is something you do loads in this thread about the actual races.”
“This is something you do loads in this thread about the actual races.”
I find pit strategy confusing, that's all. But that's all down to the individual teams depending on the approach they're going to take to each particular race. F1 regs are universal.
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“I find pit strategy confusing, that's all. But that's all down to the individual teams depending on the approach they're going to take to each particular race. F1 regs are universal.”
“I find pit strategy confusing, that's all. But that's all down to the individual teams depending on the approach they're going to take to each particular race. F1 regs are universal.”
It's not confusing if you actually watch the race rather than the cgi adverts or what error has crept onto the graphics.
And that's what makes qualifying confusing; we are watching the ontrack activity instead of Bernie's flashing red box.
We all know that the reason that the 2015 qualifying regulations are not on the table is because Bernie doesn't want to be usurped by the teams.
Thinking back to Max's time at the FIA, we all moaned at the time that it was far too incestuous between Bernie and Max, but at least they got things through. Things like this qualifying fiasco are collateral damage from a power play between Jean Todt, Bernie and the teams. If Bernie and Jean Todt were on the same page, at least we'd have some kind of forward movement.
Thinking back to Max's time at the FIA, we all moaned at the time that it was far too incestuous between Bernie and Max, but at least they got things through. Things like this qualifying fiasco are collateral damage from a power play between Jean Todt, Bernie and the teams. If Bernie and Jean Todt were on the same page, at least we'd have some kind of forward movement.
Originally Posted by madmusician:
“We all know that the reason that the 2015 qualifying regulations are not on the table is because Bernie doesn't want to be usurped by the teams.
Thinking back to Max's time at the FIA, we all moaned at the time that it was far too incestuous between Bernie and Max, but at least they got things through. Things like this qualifying fiasco are collateral damage from a power play between Jean Todt, Bernie and the teams. If Bernie and Jean Todt were on the same page, at least we'd have some kind of forward movement.”
“We all know that the reason that the 2015 qualifying regulations are not on the table is because Bernie doesn't want to be usurped by the teams.
Thinking back to Max's time at the FIA, we all moaned at the time that it was far too incestuous between Bernie and Max, but at least they got things through. Things like this qualifying fiasco are collateral damage from a power play between Jean Todt, Bernie and the teams. If Bernie and Jean Todt were on the same page, at least we'd have some kind of forward movement.”
Exactly! Its politics and ego over what is best for the sport!
Originally Posted by madmusician:
“If Bernie and Jean Todt were on the same page, at least we'd have some kind of forward movement.”
“If Bernie and Jean Todt were on the same page, at least we'd have some kind of forward movement.”
But in this case they are on the same page. Both Bernie & Jean don't want a return to the 2015 format.
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“Exactly! Its politics and ego over what is best for the sport!”
“Exactly! Its politics and ego over what is best for the sport!”
Though politics and ego are part of the reason people watch.
The teams don't know what they want; that's the problem in this case. Technical direction maybe, but in this I don't know why anybody would think the teams (or the drivers) should have a say.
The only thing that confuses me is why people find qualifying confusing. It's a very simple, deeply flawed process.
The problem with elimination qualy has nothing to do with watching timing screens or red countdowns, it's that cars don't really get eliminated one at a time, the time it takes to come in, change tyres, do an out lap and a timed lap means that while the red timer plays away to itself, about four or five cars have no chance to avoid elimination. Many in Q2 would actually prefer elimination to getting in the top 8, leaving just an odd car with the both the desire and opportunity to actually set a second lap. That's not really confusing, just incredibly stupid.
The only possible confusion is having to do the maths in your head about who does actually have time to set another lap, something Ben Edwards never really seemed to get the grasp of in either qualifying session so far, suggesting that cars could possibly improve despite being sat in the pits with the timer already on them.
In Q3 in China, the flashing red box was a complete irrelevance. The countdown ruled out 6th, 7th and 8th from having a shot at a second lap at all. Ricciardo stopped at the weighbridge so couldn't set a second lap if he'd wanted to. With the top four, the threat of elimination meant everyone had to do their second run a bit earlier, but other than that the timer was meaningless. Hamilton only had one shot at pole anyway, so the red flasher on him while he was on his lap didn't add anything, the other three had already finished their laps long before the timer got onto them, leaving it to tick away irrelevantly.
The problem with elimination qualy has nothing to do with watching timing screens or red countdowns, it's that cars don't really get eliminated one at a time, the time it takes to come in, change tyres, do an out lap and a timed lap means that while the red timer plays away to itself, about four or five cars have no chance to avoid elimination. Many in Q2 would actually prefer elimination to getting in the top 8, leaving just an odd car with the both the desire and opportunity to actually set a second lap. That's not really confusing, just incredibly stupid.
The only possible confusion is having to do the maths in your head about who does actually have time to set another lap, something Ben Edwards never really seemed to get the grasp of in either qualifying session so far, suggesting that cars could possibly improve despite being sat in the pits with the timer already on them.
In Q3 in China, the flashing red box was a complete irrelevance. The countdown ruled out 6th, 7th and 8th from having a shot at a second lap at all. Ricciardo stopped at the weighbridge so couldn't set a second lap if he'd wanted to. With the top four, the threat of elimination meant everyone had to do their second run a bit earlier, but other than that the timer was meaningless. Hamilton only had one shot at pole anyway, so the red flasher on him while he was on his lap didn't add anything, the other three had already finished their laps long before the timer got onto them, leaving it to tick away irrelevantly.
Originally Posted by kriZbii:
“The only thing that confuses me is why people find qualifying confusing. It's a very simple, deeply flawed process.
The problem with elimination qualy has nothing to do with watching timing screens or red countdowns, it's that cars don't really get eliminated one at a time, the time it takes to come in, change tyres, do an out lap and a timed lap means that while the red timer plays away to itself, about four or five cars have no chance to avoid elimination. Many in Q2 would actually prefer elimination to getting in the top 8, leaving just an odd car with the both the desire and opportunity to actually set a second lap. That's not really confusing, just incredibly stupid.
The only possible confusion is having to do the maths in your head about who does actually have time to set another lap, something Ben Edwards never really seemed to get the grasp of in either qualifying session so far, suggesting that cars could possibly improve despite being sat in the pits with the timer already on them.
In Q3 in China, the flashing red box was a complete irrelevance. The countdown ruled out 6th, 7th and 8th from having a shot at a second lap at all. Ricciardo stopped at the weighbridge so couldn't set a second lap if he'd wanted to. With the top four, the threat of elimination meant everyone had to do their second run a bit earlier, but other than that the timer was meaningless. Hamilton only had one shot at pole anyway, so the red flasher on him while he was on his lap didn't add anything, the other three had already finished their laps long before the timer got onto them, leaving it to tick away irrelevantly.”
“The only thing that confuses me is why people find qualifying confusing. It's a very simple, deeply flawed process.
The problem with elimination qualy has nothing to do with watching timing screens or red countdowns, it's that cars don't really get eliminated one at a time, the time it takes to come in, change tyres, do an out lap and a timed lap means that while the red timer plays away to itself, about four or five cars have no chance to avoid elimination. Many in Q2 would actually prefer elimination to getting in the top 8, leaving just an odd car with the both the desire and opportunity to actually set a second lap. That's not really confusing, just incredibly stupid.
The only possible confusion is having to do the maths in your head about who does actually have time to set another lap, something Ben Edwards never really seemed to get the grasp of in either qualifying session so far, suggesting that cars could possibly improve despite being sat in the pits with the timer already on them.
In Q3 in China, the flashing red box was a complete irrelevance. The countdown ruled out 6th, 7th and 8th from having a shot at a second lap at all. Ricciardo stopped at the weighbridge so couldn't set a second lap if he'd wanted to. With the top four, the threat of elimination meant everyone had to do their second run a bit earlier, but other than that the timer was meaningless. Hamilton only had one shot at pole anyway, so the red flasher on him while he was on his lap didn't add anything, the other three had already finished their laps long before the timer got onto them, leaving it to tick away irrelevantly.”
Yes, Quali is only "exciting" if the driver is able to cross the finish line on his final lap before his time is up, otherwise (if the driver is in the pits or can't get over the line quick enough), nothing will happen. Put in multiple cars all on different quali strategies and you'll get periods where nothing will be changed because they're not all synchronised with each other enough.
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“The figures have now been amended - this year's peak share on C4 was actually 20.2%.
BBC (2015):
Average - 26.0%
Peak - 30.8%
C4 (2016):
Average - 16.2%
Peak - 20.2%
EDIT: The 2016 combined peak (ie C4 + Sky) was 30.2% - but that's not a like for like comparison as the 30.8% figure for 2015 was the BBC (ie BBC only) peak.
See link - the figures are down very substantially - but exactly by how much depends upon which measure you choose to use.
http://f1broadcasting.co/”
“The figures have now been amended - this year's peak share on C4 was actually 20.2%.
BBC (2015):
Average - 26.0%
Peak - 30.8%
C4 (2016):
Average - 16.2%
Peak - 20.2%
EDIT: The 2016 combined peak (ie C4 + Sky) was 30.2% - but that's not a like for like comparison as the 30.8% figure for 2015 was the BBC (ie BBC only) peak.
See link - the figures are down very substantially - but exactly by how much depends upon which measure you choose to use.
http://f1broadcasting.co/”
Yes, that is a significant drop.
Originally Posted by clewsy:
“It's not hard to grow from nothing in a country where F1 has failed to master for years. Also remember its the US culture that nearly all sport is on pay TV.
Is it still free in Germany? I suspect F1 is content with being a niche sport, tucked away on pay TV.
Moto GP is the best example of what will happen to the sport in years to come. The sport still exists, but for most people they couldn't care less what happens in it anymore.”
“It's not hard to grow from nothing in a country where F1 has failed to master for years. Also remember its the US culture that nearly all sport is on pay TV.
Is it still free in Germany? I suspect F1 is content with being a niche sport, tucked away on pay TV.
Moto GP is the best example of what will happen to the sport in years to come. The sport still exists, but for most people they couldn't care less what happens in it anymore.”
Funny thing I used to watch all of the MotoGP when it was on BBC Two, Wonder if they regret being on BT soon?
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“Greats thoughts mate. Gave me a good chuckle after a long and rather shitty day”
“Greats thoughts mate. Gave me a good chuckle after a long and rather shitty day”
That's nice to hear.
Dr Chuckle on call.
Jp
Originally Posted by hyperstarsponge:
“Funny thing I used to watch all of the MotoGP when it was on BBC Two, Wonder if they regret being on BT soon?”
“Funny thing I used to watch all of the MotoGP when it was on BBC Two, Wonder if they regret being on BT soon?”
It doesn't look like it. I would expect them to announce an extension to the current contract in the next 18 months, as well as more races being offered in 4k.
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“I'm shouting at the TV saying: "LOOK AT THE BLOODY GRAPHICS MAN - There's a frigging bright red 90sec coundown clock around the position that's going to be eliminated!"”
“I'm shouting at the TV saying: "LOOK AT THE BLOODY GRAPHICS MAN - There's a frigging bright red 90sec coundown clock around the position that's going to be eliminated!"”
It's about as complicated to understand as the battery graphic in Formula E.
Originally Posted by FOM Fan:
“And conversely, the FIA/FOM is saying that a switch to the 2015 quali system will be too confusing to fans. Well that's just silly”
“And conversely, the FIA/FOM is saying that a switch to the 2015 quali system will be too confusing to fans. Well that's just silly”
Of course it's silly. Of course it's not difficult to understand reverting to the previous format. Which is why it's clearly the proxy battleground for "teams versus FOM/FIA power struggle round whatever-number-we're-up-to-now".
"Oh and it's Napoleon!!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FsVeMz1F5c
But what has ABBA got to do with F1?
http://www.boxthislap.com.au/_blog/b...-abba-does-f1/
http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/story/6511.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FsVeMz1F5c
But what has ABBA got to do with F1?
http://www.boxthislap.com.au/_blog/b...-abba-does-f1/
http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/story/6511.html
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