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F1 Coverage - The Verdict: 2016 Season
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DEmberton
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by SepangBlue:
“The problem for viewers, as I see it, seems to relate more to the tighter and tighter regulations that tend to stymie talent and genuine opportunities to RACE. Tyre rules and overuse of the safety car have frequently interrupted perfectly good racing flow. If they reintroduced refuelling I don't think it would be a bad thing .. but let the driver make the decision when to come in, not the team!”

Except of course there's far more racing now than when there were looser regulations, and especially when there was refuelling.
Hacker Harrier
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by lettice:
“Lots of adverts over the weekend for the Paris Formula e, assume the Paris tourist board are promoting it heavy. Not seen that for Formula e before.
I know a few colleagues who work there and its getting a lot of attention in the French media, with Michelin and Renault especially.
Hope the cameras are placed well and not the shambles we got with the Battersea one.”

Cobbled streets. WCPGW?
deadmancarl
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by Hacker Harrier:
“You've forgotten about the utterly dominant works WRC team.
http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/

I was under the impression that some of the VW board aren't keen on Bernie.”

Damn it forgot about that - But he's my counter (not going to be very good ) It is probably cheaper to run a WRC program than an F1 program and the cars are very relevant to their road cars at least in terms of looks.
Hacker Harrier
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by deadmancarl:
“Damn it forgot about that - But he's my counter (not going to be very good ) It is probably cheaper to run a WRC program than an F1 program and the cars are very relevant to their road cars at least in terms of looks.”

Indeed, in looks only. No more WRC or Group N homologation limited edition specials.
FOM Fan
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by deadmancarl:
“Damn it forgot about that - But he's my counter (not going to be very good ) It is probably cheaper to run a WRC program than an F1 program and the cars are very relevant to their road cars at least in terms of looks.”

Bernie has said he'd step aside if that was the only reason blocking VW from entering the championship. Ultimately though the emissions scandal stopped them from partnering with Red Bull though.
Hacker Harrier
18-04-2016
Would VW (or Porsche) want to risk building another high profile turkey like the Porsche 3512?
mjr
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by RAM:
“It would appear that from 2019 there will be same day highlights either for an hour or so at 11pm-ish or .similar to what we have now or something in between. That will do me.”

BIB: Yeah, that'll kill off most of the FTA audience nicely.
DanielF
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by mjr:
“BIB: Yeah, that'll kill off most of the FTA audience nicely.”

Didn't last time it was like that; just the casuals.
dansus
18-04-2016
Caught up with Ch4's offering, DC back to his old ways of sucking the life out of an exciting race.
BenFranklin
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by DEmberton:
“Except of course there's far more racing now than when there were looser regulations, and especially when there was refuelling.”

We haven't had looser regulations for years and years, in many ways F1 is a one spec formula. The one regulation that has been loosened up a tiny bit (increasing the tyre compound from 2 to 3) has improved the racing by an incredible amount.
Hacker Harrier
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by dansus:
“Anyone catch Jack's flubs on 5Live that would make Murray Walker proud? Quite amusing a times - Rosbag! ”

Jim Roller commentating (for IMSA radio) on the IMSA Long Beach race, "Green flag waves on the Bur Burger... Bubba Burger sportscar Grand Prix is underway!"
Hacker Harrier
18-04-2016
This is a Rosbag: http://cdn-media.amplience.com/tumi/...de_900x900.jpg

http://uk.tumi.com/s/NicoRosberg

He's a Global Citizen apparently.
"An innate thirst for adventure coupled with the desire to always stay ahead of the curve is what being a Global Citizen is all about."
solarflare
18-04-2016
It's definitely been a decent start to the season but I confess it is leaving me a little bit cold.

The combination of the tyres AND the DRS is just way too much for me now. It results in lots of passing but very few meaningful battles between cars for any length of time. There's a balance - and I don't believe it's a particularly fine balance - between "I'm stuck behind this guy for 56 laps because of the dirty air" and "I just drive my way past the entire field because we're all on entirely different tyres at entirely different stages of life, and I get a massive speed boost from the DRS anyway".

The short-life tyres with the 3 compound choice, fine. Add the DRS to that, no, it's too much for me. In China that 1.1km back straight is plenty long enough as it is for a decent slipstream anyway without DRS getting the car behind past even before the halfway mark of the straight.
popeye13
18-04-2016
I wonder if we will see DRS dropped with the new changes and wider cars and tyres and aero changes etc?
Personally i don't have an issue with DRS. I think its a good thing but i won't be crying over it should it be axed.
I want tyres drivers can push like hell on for a whole race. The fuel flow thing needs to go aswell, thats just moronic IMHO!
And the limits on stuff such as gear boxes doing 6 races is not going to entice teams to push because they have to manage them through 6 races, some hard ones!
mjr
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“I wonder if we will see DRS dropped with the new changes and wider cars and tyres and aero changes etc?
Personally i don't have an issue with DRS. I think its a good thing but i won't be crying over it should it be axed.
I want tyres drivers can push like hell on for a whole race. The fuel flow thing needs to go aswell, thats just moronic IMHO!
And the limits on stuff such as gear boxes doing 6 races is not going to entice teams to push because they have to manage them through 6 races, some hard ones!”

It very much depends if the aero wake makes overtaking more difficult. If it does, Charlie Whiting is on record as saying they'll just increase the effectiveness of DRS to compensate Hopefully that doesn't happen as we'll have tracks where the only passing is a DRS drive-by on the pit straight.

I agree the tyres definitely need fixing, and the good news is I think that's going to happen and apparently the temperature window will be much wider next year. Hopefully Ted won't have to get the mozzarella out again to explain the tyres next year either...
popeye13
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by mjr:
“It very much depends if the aero wake makes overtaking more difficult. If it does, Charlie Whiting is on record as saying they'll just increase the effectiveness of DRS to compensate Hopefully that doesn't happen as we'll have tracks where the only passing is a DRS drive-by on the pit straight.

I agree the tyres definitely need fixing, and the good news is I think that's going to happen and apparently the temperature window will be much wider next year. Hopefully Ted won't have to get the mozzarella out again to explain the tyres next year either...”

If Paul Hembrey is to be believed when he spoke on Sky F1 in the pre-race show i think it was, then the tyres will go longer and enable pushing but thats one small factor in alot of huge issues regarding being able to push like hell for an entire race.

Making the cars wider, wider tyres is all well and good but, how does that allow for overtaking at places like Monaco? 11% wider isn't much but when you think of just how bloody hard it is to pass there, its going to be basically impossible. DRS won't make any difference there.
stefmeister
19-04-2016
I've been an open & regular critic of DRS, But my utter hatred is less aimed at the device itself as the idea of opening the wing to drop drag & gain speed (Which also helps save a bit of fuel & drop lap time) isn't necessarily a bad idea. Mu hatred of the thing is more aimed at the utterly idiotic, artificial & gimmicky way that its been used.

The placement of the DRS zones has always been crap, Why put a really long DRS zone on straights where even with DRS we traditionally saw good racing & overtaking? And when you do put a DRS zone on the longest straights where we always got good racing/overtaking why do you expect anything other than it to make things a bit too easy.

Then there's the whole 1 second gap, Only the car behind has it & its only available in FIA approved zones which is what I feel makes the whole thing look like an artificial gimmick.


I still maintain what i've been saying since 2011, If your going to stick with DRS then Drop the gaps, zones & detection points as well as the thing limiting it only to the car behind. Use it like the P2P systems used elsewhere, Give everyone 10-15-20 uses of it through a race where they can use it anywhere they want to both attack & defend. This opens up an element of strategy & puts the drivers in control in when, where & how they use it.


Heck why not just ditch DRS & go with a proper P2P style system using the hybrid systems, turbo boost or rev-increase to give a moderate power boost that can be properly tuned to give just enough of a boost to act as an assist rather than just driving them past.
popeye13
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by stefmeister:
“I've been an open & regular critic of DRS, But my utter hatred is less aimed at the device itself as the idea of opening the wing to drop drag & gain speed (Which also helps save a bit of fuel & drop lap time) isn't necessarily a bad idea. Mu hatred of the thing is more aimed at the utterly idiotic, artificial & gimmicky way that its been used.

The placement of the DRS zones has always been crap, Why put a really long DRS zone on straights where even with DRS we traditionally saw good racing & overtaking? And when you do put a DRS zone on the longest straights where we always got good racing/overtaking why do you expect anything other than it to make things a bit too easy.

Then there's the whole 1 second gap, Only the car behind has it & its only available in FIA approved zones which is what I feel makes the whole thing look like an artificial gimmick.


I still maintain what i've been saying since 2011, If your going to stick with DRS then Drop the gaps, zones & detection points as well as the thing limiting it only to the car behind. Use it like the P2P systems used elsewhere, Give everyone 10-15-20 uses of it through a race where they can use it anywhere they want to both attack & defend. This opens up an element of strategy & puts the drivers in control in when, where & how they use it.


Heck why not just ditch DRS & go with a proper P2P style system using the hybrid systems, turbo boost or rev-increase to give a moderate power boost that can be properly tuned to give just enough of a boost to act as an assist rather than just driving them past.”

I like the idea of limited uses of it. 10-15 times per race and yes, no 'zones' and use at when you want to if you have uses remaining
InMyHO
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by DEmberton:
“Watching on Sky costs £6.99 a race with NowTV. If you're only interested in F1 then watching on the BBC (if it had it all live) works out as £6.92 a race.”

That is a good point. Now, as it happens, there are other BBC programmes that I watch but still £7 a race is better than £27.

Not sure why my post is in this thread to be honest so especially grateful for the reply.
DEmberton
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by BenFranklin:
“We haven't had looser regulations for years and years, in many ways F1 is a one spec formula. The one regulation that has been loosened up a tiny bit (increasing the tyre compound from 2 to 3) has improved the racing by an incredible amount.”

Every time there's a major regulation change one team steals a big advantage, as we're still seeing now. Giving them more room to innovate can only produce the same, and inevitably that comes down to who has the most money. Tight restrictions and long term stability is what keeps the performance similar and hence promotes greater racing.

Fair point about the tyres, but loose regulation would mean teams being able to buy tyres from different manufacturers, and then you're back to a huge difference in performance. It was Bridgestone making tyres specifically for Michael Schumacher that made the early noughties so dull.
DEmberton
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“I like the idea of limited uses of it. 10-15 times per race and yes, no 'zones' and use at when you want to if you have uses remaining”

Of course the point of the DRS was to give an advantage to the car behind to help overcome the disadvantage of being behind in the corners. I agree it's kind of artificial, but if you give both drivers DRS at the same time it's pointless.

One thing I like about DRS is it's something you can see. So much about the performance of an F1 car is invisible; it's nice to see something actually change as you're watching the car to know the driver is doing something. I'd have a problem with it if it really did make overtaking too easy, as the moaners often claim, but it rarely does. More often than not you see cars with the DRS open following another car down a straight for lap after lap and only closing up a bit at best. We saw that many times in China, despite the 1Km straight.
_SpeedRacer_
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by stefmeister:
“I've been an open & regular critic of DRS, But my utter hatred is less aimed at the device itself as the idea of opening the wing to drop drag & gain speed (Which also helps save a bit of fuel & drop lap time) isn't necessarily a bad idea. Mu hatred of the thing is more aimed at the utterly idiotic, artificial & gimmicky way that its been used.

The placement of the DRS zones has always been crap, Why put a really long DRS zone on straights where even with DRS we traditionally saw good racing & overtaking? And when you do put a DRS zone on the longest straights where we always got good racing/overtaking why do you expect anything other than it to make things a bit too easy.

Then there's the whole 1 second gap, Only the car behind has it & its only available in FIA approved zones which is what I feel makes the whole thing look like an artificial gimmick.


I still maintain what i've been saying since 2011, If your going to stick with DRS then Drop the gaps, zones & detection points as well as the thing limiting it only to the car behind. Use it like the P2P systems used elsewhere, Give everyone 10-15-20 uses of it through a race where they can use it anywhere they want to both attack & defend. This opens up an element of strategy & puts the drivers in control in when, where & how they use it.


Heck why not just ditch DRS & go with a proper P2P style system using the hybrid systems, turbo boost or rev-increase to give a moderate power boost that can be properly tuned to give just enough of a boost to act as an assist rather than just driving them past.”

I think the limited number of uses is something to consider, a free for all wouldn't work otherwise everyone will just use it all of the time.

But then do you have it more powerful and fewer uses, or less powerful and more uses? Starts to sound a bit like Mario Kart.

I'm in agreement that the combination of tyre deg and DRS is too much on circuits like China.
BenFranklin
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by DEmberton:
“Every time there's a major regulation change one team steals a big advantage, as we're still seeing now. Giving them more room to innovate can only produce the same, and inevitably that comes down to who has the most money. Tight restrictions and long term stability is what keeps the performance similar and hence promotes greater racing.”

The first bit of your analysis is right, but the second is wrong. Yes usually one team works out the new rules better than other teams, but historically other teams catch up pretty quickly because the rules enabled a variety of solutions and paths to victory. What we have now is new rules come into place, one team works them out better than anyone else and it's impossible for other teams to catch up. We have the worst of all worlds, a pseudo-single spec series but without the level playing field.

Quote:
“Fair point about the tyres, but loose regulation would mean teams being able to buy tyres from different manufacturers, and then you're back to a huge difference in performance. It was Bridgestone making tyres specifically for Michael Schumacher that made the early noughties so dull.”

2000, 2001 and 2003 were good/great seasons because you had different tyre manufacturers involved. 2002 and 2004 were extremely one sided, but that was as much to do with Ferrari producing the best car and having the best driver than anything else.
_SpeedRacer_
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by BenFranklin:
“2000, 2001 and 2003 were good/great seasons because you had different tyre manufacturers involved. 2002 and 2004 were extremely one sided, but that was as much to do with Ferrari producing the best car and having the best driver than anything else.”

Actually in 2000 there was only 1 manufacturer (Bridgestone).

Personally I prefer a tyre war, but only if there's a good smattering of teams with each manufacturer. I think less testing today would prevent the Ferrari situation. I disagree with you though, I think the tyres played a big part in Ferrari's dominance in 2002 and 2004. The regulations were quite stable then, when Michelin's tyre was banned towards the end of 2003 Ferrari became the strongest team again.

Also just beyond that look at the 2005 Imola GP as a case study; Ferrari were incredibly quick that day (same level of performance as 2004) but then very average at other tracks. I've always believed that level of sensitivity in performance is more likely to be tyres than car.
BenFranklin
19-04-2016
I wouldn't argue that strongly to bring back a tyre war, but I would like there to be as many compounds available to the teams as realistically possible. Late 80s/early 90s had four. Now maybe that is one too many, but it definitely meant you got a range of strategies throughout a race.

Maybe even bring back the specialist qualifying tyre as well.
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