I haven't seen this at all I must say I'm beginning to wonder if I suffer from narcolepsy or maybe something even worse as I keep seeing things written on here I have no memory or idea of at all.

Personally I like both Tiff and John as HMs. I think they are bloody brilliant and that was before tonight's entertaining though weird conversation. I haven't always appreciated everything they've said and done and definitely disliked John more than Tiff at times but certainly I have no memory of Tiff listening and joining in with Gemma re spiteful stuff about John though I wouldn't blame her considering he wanted her ostracised and out of the House at one time.

Hmm actually I find it weird that people don't mention that period of John as much as they mention that Tiff has the audacity to talk to Gemma oh and they don't mention John's closeness to Gemma either, hugging and being there for her during her melt down the other night on live feed.

I'm sorry but it really feels like John is the chosen one now on here anyway and it is a pity as I think John and Tiff are both very good HMs and both worthy of respect and both worthy winners.

I thought so but may have it wrong.

Trevor, John's not 'close' to Gemma, she just bends his ear and he's patient and polite.

Don't hate him because others like him, he's far from 'chosen' by the powers that be, they do EVERYTHING to slate him.

And we BOTH want Tiff and John to be allies. Let's hope for THAT.

something to do with knickers

Are you serious I'm dumb founded and depressed tbh

I like John and have said so countless times.

ETA Did you read Penny's post? Do you agree that Tiff listens to Gemma, agrees and joins in with slating John? I don't but if it is the case I don' see how they can be allies.

They've done it quite a few times, they were doing it on live feed the night before last, sat at the table by the Diary Room door while Gemma was stuffing her face, as usual. They've done it out at the smoking area and Gemma has taken loads of opportunities to badmouth John right from before when Megan had a go at him. Everything that happens she reports to Tiffany as being caused by him and Tiffany has lapped it up. I thought at one point that she was actually quite astute, but Gemma has got to her too as she did a lot of the others. All that Gemma accuses John of is what she does herself ! Steph might be a pain in the bum at times, but at least she knows what Gemma has been up to.

I thought you were describing Gemma.

Johns argument that he would only humiliate and mock mature women wasn't really endearing him to me. But maybe that's because I am one.

Christopher was basically making the same argument in the bedroom - that Steph can get away with name calling and hounding people whilst playing the victim "cos she's only 22"

No wonder she never takes responsibility for anything.

It was John himself who made people doubt his every move after he got close to Darren and then nominated him. That took away every single bit of trust that anyone had invested in him. From a personal point of view, I will always doubt anything he says in the future because of that.

I didn't know that either.

But also he's a know it all. He gives people advice when it isn't asked for and he does it in a way as though he's some great sage of wisdom. If he truly had wisdom he'd climb down off his high horse and apologise to Darren for hurting his feelings instead of doggedly sticking to his guns about nominating him for the 'right' reason.

You make it sound like he wasn't a long standing friend of Darren dating back quite a few years. I expect he has seen Darren go through some difficult times in the past fighting his demons. His nomination might have been a poor way of going about it but I am not sure I doubt his underlying good intention.

Is that true?

Yes - they performed in Grease together years ago and Arlene Philllips confirmed they were friends on SOTS.

Didnt think anyone wore them in there..... ooops forgot,Steph leaves her dirty ones lying around...OH IM SO PROUD TO BE FEMALE

OK. Thanks.

I like John and there has been far shadier behaviour in that house than him nominating someone. Let's face it Darren trying to make out like he was completely hurt by it was far more manipulative imo

I didn't see the LF last night but what exactly did John say that meant he would only humiliate and mock a mature woman? I hope he said more than "I wouldn't do that to a young girl".

Darren seems very eeyorish to me and happy to play the victim. Much easier to get through by those means and by default making someone else look bad rather than bring something too the house and try and raise the atmosphere. Personality wise he is a bit of a dead fish, not what I was expecting at all.

He didn't.

He has apologised - over and over - in fact every time Darren brings it up (which seems to be quite often). It is possible to apologise for hurting someones feelings whilst still maintaining that you did it for the 'right' reason.

I agree although I have to say it would have been fair enough at the time the nomination was made but to keep bringing up how hurt he was weeks later was ridiculous..John handled that well imo.

And if John said to Darren "I'm really sorry Darren, I never should have nominated you, it was a mistake, I feel s*it about it" his haters would accuse him of acting to the crowd's reception and "playing the game".
He can't win.

Thanks momentarything, I didn't believe he said anything more than he wouldn't do whatever to a young girl. Clearly that means he'd mock and humiliate an older woman

You have no idea how that has made me laugh. I'm sitting here on my own LOLING.

What an incredibly apt description.

[quote=Reality Sucks;81215392]But also he's a know it all. He gives people advice when it isn't asked for and he does it in a way as though he's some great sage of wisdom. If he truly had wisdom he'd climb down off his high horse and apologise to Darren for hurting his feelings instead of doggedly sticking to his guns about nominating him for the 'right' reason.[/QUOT

He has apologised to Darren numerous times, he thought he was doing Darren a favour but got it wrong. Darren needs to get over it and stay away from Gemma the stirrer.