[quote=Janet_Hadfield;81216630]
I think Gemma is being told by BB to stir..

I must have missed the part where he apologised. I've only ever heard him justifying why he did it.

Just to add, John seems to be incapable of admitting that he could make a mistake or be wrong about anything. Being right seems to be the most important thing to him. I think this is why he is not so popular within the house. He's intelligent and well educated, but seems a little lacking in the emotional intelligence/empathy department.

Honestly?

You haven't heard him say several times - 'I'm really sorry for hurting your feelings' (or words to that effect - they've hugged it out a number of times.

He hasn't ever said it was a wrong thing to do - but he really has apologised to Darren for hurting his feelings/making him feel like shit and possibly giving out the wrong message.

I was under the impression that John had apologised repeatedly ??
Mardy Darren just can't let it go.

"It hurt my heart." ffs, you're a grown man not a soppy teenager.
GET OVER IT.

We've seen him apologise at least twice, Kristina said he's apologised many times over, it's Darren that can't let it go because that vile Essex woman keeps putting it in his ear.

I would describe John's so called apology as a non-apology apology
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology

He freely admits to being arrogant. It can be an irritating trait but not an evil one as BB and SOTS seem determined to present

I don't think he's evil at all, just annoyingly self righteous and lacking in humility.

The whole addiction thing could have been over and done with, but it's Darren that's kept drawing attention to it.. John was fine to let it go..
I Darren only storyline, he's pretty much played it safe so he will coast to the final and be the first or second out..

I don't believe for a minute that John is sorry. I think he is sorry for how it turned out against him, rather than sorry for hurting Darren. I don't understand why a grown man shouldn't be hurt, by the betrayal of a freind. Your freinds should have your back

I think a lot of that is to do with the obsession of "telling it like it is". I'm sure John has said that there's no need to hurt peoples feelings by saying everything you think and people nowadays see that as not being honest and game playing.

I don't think anyone on BB is evil. Bar Conor. Even Helen wasn't evil. Just a nasty nasty woman.

John admits he's arrogant. And being arrogant can be annoying but it's not 'evil'.

Yes you're right but Penny said 'why does she sit listening and joining in with Gemma and all the spiteful stuff about John?' and my point is I have never heard or seen Tiff categorically agree with and pour scorn on John herself. Gemma talks to loads of people, John included and bad mouths others. John on live feed the other night patiently listened to and comforted her whilst she was going on and on about how hard her life is. I think it is impossible being in there and not have conversations with everyone even those you don't like or believe.

Just the other day Tiff said that Gemma was the least trustworthy and yet you describe her as lapping up everything Gemma has to say Sorry but that makes no sense and I have no idea why you would say Gemma has got to her as there is no evidence to suggest this but there is plenty to suggest that she is her own woman coming to her own conclusions. I don't understand why some don't want to give her credit for this. Last night appeared to emanate from something Steph said from what we can gather and not Gemma.

As for Tiff calling out John last night she has called him arrogant before and I think he actually accepts that, obviously he doesn't accept the manipulation tag but Megan came out with this first and others inside and out of the House have thought this to be the case. I'm not saying it's true but he has somehow managed to give this impression and again this came initially from someone other than Gemma.

Finally, all I'd say is that it is pretty clear from what we heard last night that Tiff and John are quite good friends and I don't see any problem with good friends talking like they are particularly when you think of their history IE John trying to get her ostracised and out of the House in the beginning. It's clear she has listened to his advice subsequent to this and is trying to be calmer so they have already had difficult discussions and I don't see why this one is any different.

I like them both and can see that neither are perfect but both are great HMs.

The thing is John was right, i stopped smoking for 7 years, once i had a ciggy i got hooked again. Maybe John has done this himself and knew it would happen to Darren.

No he doesn't really apologise.
He justifies it and says he knows Darren is hurt, but he says it in away that implies Darren has no right to be upset.

John is not as annoying as Steph, Jeremy, Tiffany,Megan or Gemma but he is extremely repellant because he is older, established and intelligent.
He had no reason to nominate Darren other than the real reason , which was, he hoped to eradicate the competition that Darren certainly was at the time.
John had so many people to nominate, the only people he was getting along with was Daniella , Nancy, Kristina, David and Darren , yet he chose Darren.
John is a complete tw*t
And he keeps trying to hide it.
I loathe him.

He's apologised for hurting Darren's feeling's, he has said it many times now, do people on here have selective hearing or something ?

What he isn't sorry for is nominating him and he has no reason to be sorry for that. He thought in his mind he was doing the right thing. It doesn't matter if he was right or wrong to do it, he thought he was doing the right thing.

People really need to get over it, i don't see why he should forever be punished for something he did 2 weeks ago.

John is extremely repellent because he's older, established and intelligent?

He must be a complete idiot if he was "playing the game" and thought for one second that nominating Darren would do him any favours.
If the game plan went wrong the easiest thing for John to do to get back on track is to back down and accept he was wrong to do it, he hasn't and it doesn't seem he ever will. For me, the Darren situation is evidence that John is not playing a game. It is evidence of his arrogant, sanctimonious nature but that's just who he is!

Johns not thick but he's not quite as clever as he thinks he is, he also thinks he's a better actor than he is.

Make no mistake he nominated Darren to get rid of opposition, and it's worked because Darren went into a gloomy obsessive sulk, making him far less liked, and people like you actually buy Johns ridiculous story.

Spot on.

He's extremely intelligent but he's also very stupid?

He's a bit high handed mind, but he's not going to apologise for caring about Darren, which was his intention, misguided though it may have been.

Darren, however, is pathetically grateful for Gemma, who, in his little, deluded mind, really 'does' care, by telling him to hold a grudge for ever and to think the worst possible - riiiight.

And for Stephanie too, who 'didn't have anything to gain', apparantly, by sticking the knife into John, when everyone had heard the booing and Gemma had already nommed him.

Really, really unimpressed by that.

So why did Darren's odds to win improve after his nomination?

No I don't have selective hearing, but he really has not apologised. I don't believe his ridiculous reason, but accept that you have been fooled by him
And as your ability to gauge time is so poor, I think this conversation is over, nothing for me to learn from you.

How does that fit in with John and Kristina's observations that Darren was 'losing it' BEFORE the noms, and that they were very worried about him?

And that we saw John talk kindly to him a couple of times during this period, trying to help?

And that Nancy and Kristina were convinced beyond all doubt that John was trying to help?

They're not as clever as the BB audience I suppose.

Or you of course. But could you perhaps even think there's a possibility that you arre wrong?

The trouble here is you're embarrassing yourself by lying. It's my post you're indirectly challenging and I neither said he was extremely intelligent or stupid

Don't lie.
Or do you think people can't see self serving idiotic lies, this may be why you appreciate Johns rather unpleasant lying and deviousness.

Don't be ridiculous

If he's not sorry for nominating his friend, fair enough, but he can't expect it to go down well with Darren. Even if his reasons were well meaning, there's an arrogance about his "I know what's best for you" attitude.

That's why Darren hasn't moved on and why some of us are still harping on about it.

I think John is a bit of a cold fish, unless of course, HE feels hurt, such as when Gemma upset him, or when Winston made homophobic remarks.