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Was Moffat Pushed? |
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#26 |
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I think Chibnall was always intended to take over him. Broadchurch got in the way.
I don't think he was pushed at all, he just didn't want to leave the show in the lurch. But don't let that get in the way of being nasty about him as forums tend to do. |
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#27 |
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And as for Rooks talking about rumours on Twitter.... My cat farts more sense than anything you'd read on Twitter. Get a grip people! Bah....
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#28 |
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All this thread title can make me think of is Moffat standing on the edge of a cliff while being prodded by a bunch of BBC execs.
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#29 |
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All this thread title can make me think of is Moffat standing on the edge of a cliff while being prodded by a bunch of BBC execs.
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#30 |
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I'd quite like to see these tweets/rumours now so can dissect their content!
BBC Ex: Steven, very pleased with Sherlock. Amazing ratings. SM: Thanks very much. Ex: But, er, about Doctor Who. We've done some research, and it appears that you think of yourself as some sort of Showrunner Eternal. Bigger than the Show. Well, I'm sorry but... SM: Do I?! What sort of research? Ex: Oh, googled your name. Forums. Twitter. That sort of thing. Anyway, we want to replace you with immediate effect. We like that Chiblan chap who did Broadchurch. Think he'll jump at the chance, so, um, there we go. SM: Yes, I know Chris. You are aware he's busy in 2016 doing Broadchurch 3? And I have discussed him taking over already? Ex: Is he? Have you? Oh. Ah. Right. Well, could you just give us another 13 Who episodes, carry on the work with 'Class' and, of course, Sherlock. SM: That was my intention, yes. Ex: But then as far as Doctor Who is concerned, you're out! SM: Well, that told me. You daft Sassenach. Hoots Mon, I don't know. (Leaves room shaking head) |
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#31 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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I'd quite like to see these tweets/rumours now so can dissect their content!
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#32 |
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Superb speculation there Abomination
![]() That would all make perfect sense - the only thing I don't get is why there aren't a couple of specials this year, as I would have thought the BBC and Capaldi would definitely want them, with Moffat possibly being reticent - but he was the one who said he wanted more not less. Guess we'll never know ![]() Moffat's comments about trying to get 'more than usual' episodes came alongside the news he'd signed to do Series 10, which in turn came some time after the announcement for new spin-off Class. I'd guess with that in mind that the BBC long knew what dramas they'd be doing in 2016, the only question remaining for them was whether Moffat would be around to do Who for 2017 to plug the gap until Chibnall's 2018 debut. By the time Moffat could request doing more episodes, the drama budget would have been spent for 2016 and they don't have the excess for more than usual episodes in 2017 either. ![]() Again, all speculation on my part but based loosely on the idea that the BBC is not going to have wanted to have a year without the show on air. Its absence is most logically down to budget constraints and contractual limitations. Also keeping in mind that the new financial year doesn't start until April, so the budget for Series 10 may well come from 2016 still...given that it has to be physically produced in 2016 as well. |
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#33 |
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Intresting enough the "Rumored" research said that part of he ratings drop was due to the unusual Scheduling of DW (like PC and Moffat claimed)
Not all exclusivley due to PC like some here claim. |
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#34 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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The Radio Times carried a piece from a senior BBC exec stating that there would be no regular Doctor Who series on 2016 due to the European Championships soccer and the Olympics. The Beeb has already tested the water with changing the time Doctor Who is shown.
The piece went onto explain that there would be a Doctor Who Christmas special in 2016, followed by season 10 in 2017 of 12 episodes and the 2017 Christmas Special. Chibnall would then take over. I have no idea, if that plan is likely to change There's no question that Moffat left on his own terms. @Tom Tit is correct that the BBC wanted to have more Doctor Who episodes and asked Moffat to do them. Moffat said he couldn't due to Sherlock. I think the BBC is angling to have Doctor Who shown on one of the major US networks and have a co-production agreement and needs more episodes to make a deal. I think that's what the BBC hoped would happen after Miracle Day for Torchwood. I had the sense in season 9 that Moffat, Capaldi and Coleman all intended to leave the show in the Christmas special in a blaze of glory. That's all suspended, just like Clara Oswald is dead but isn't. Chibnall wasn't available due to more seasons of Broadchurch and wouldn't commit to Doctor Who. Now Chibnall is on board. |
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#35 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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My guess as to how it's unfolded more or less....
- Moffat was considering when to leave a few years ago, pondering as early as Series 8 if it should be his last. He may have even briefly thought about bowing out alongside Jenna Coleman at the time, though later thought better of it. This is backed up by claims he made whilst promoting Series 8 that he knew he was closer to leaving than joining. - Moffat signed to do Series 9, and to some level of surprise so did Jenna Coleman. Ultimately Moffat did really consider 2015 to be his final year. He would see Clara out of the show, have one last Christmas special to tell whatever final story he wanted or to wrap up loose ends. He brings back River Song, after encouragement from RTD to do so - something we know to have definitely have happened. It was also previously confirmed that the 2015 Christmas special might have one point been Moffat's final contribution. - The BBC are aware of Moffat's plans to leave sooner rather than later, and consider their prospects for a successor. There is a chance they may have had a name or two in mind that didn't work out - possibly Toby Whithouse, or someone wholly new. Whether or not this was the case, they did ultimately settle on Chris Chibnall who agreed to take on the role... - ...however the BBC found themselves in a bit of a tricky situation. They had to show commitment to their own shows outside of Doctor Who, and the ready-to-go Steven Moffat was more keen to get on with Sherlock in 2016. Similarly, proposed successor Chris Chibnall was not available until much later in 2016, possibly early 2017 due to his commitment to Broadchurch. A Chibnall-led series would not be able to see the light of day until late 2017 at the earliest. - The BBC also notes the issues regarding DW: Series 9's poor scheduling. That broadcasting the show late in the year is proving problematic - putting it up against more needless competition, and sticking it out post-watershed as a result of Strictly getting in the way. This is backed up by a viewer decline that correlates perfectly with the later broadcast times since The Caretaker in Series 8, and to an extent by the far better performance of the Christmas special not just in terms of raw figures but in terms of its relative success on Christmas night. There was a clear need to move the show away from autumn, but there was no way of moving the show forward. - Faced with a situation where Doctor Who could be off air in 2016 AND 2017 because there is nobody to showrun it, Steven Moffat agrees (somewhat as a fan, somewhat because there was likely a nice sum of money involved) to stay on for one further year to soften the blow to the viewers. His further involvement means that the BBC can shift the show back to the spring schedule of old, resulting in a gap of only half a year more than usual - Series 10 would never have gone out earlier than Autumn 2016 anyway. - With only a few episodes of Sherlock to produce in 2016, Moffat proposes doing more-than-usual episodes of Doctor Who to satisfy fans and to soften the blow of the gap - this may have transferred into an extended Series 10, or 2016 Specials, there's no way to know. At any rate, it seems that this request was never granted... and given the BBC would want the show to go out in 2016 if it could my guess is that the reason is purely down to either contractual obligations regarding how much Capaldi can work per-series, or down to the BBC having to adhere to a limited drama budget. - Moffat does Series 10 out of loyalty and as a favour, without having to sacrifice Sherlock. Chibnall gets to do Series 11 straight after, not having to sacrifice Broadchurch. The BBC takes a bit of a hit for no 2016 series but overall a delay to the show of only about half a year - plus one more year of Moffat than they would have been anticipating which to them is a very good thing. - Peter Capaldi meanwhile will get a well-earned rest in 2016. Whether he decides to bow out with Moffat or continue with Chibnall remains to be seen. Moffat's departure now awkwardly correlates with the unspoken three-series rule which on the previous two occasions has been what led to the departure of the lead. However for now, as much as all of the above is complete speculation on my part, I'd say that Capaldi's own invovlement isn't directly under threat from any of this, none of these actions are down to his involvement and should he decide to unfortunately leave in 2017 then it will very likely be of his own accord. |
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#36 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
There's no question that Moffat left on his own terms. @Tom Tit is correct that the BBC wanted to have more Doctor Who episodes and asked Moffat to do them. Moffat said he couldn't due to Sherlock. I think the BBC is angling to have Doctor Who shown on one of the major US networks and have a co-production agreement and needs more episodes to make a deal. I think that's what the BBC hoped would happen after Miracle Day for Torchwood.
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#37 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Moffat absolutely left on his own terms but I disagree that the BBC wanted more Doctor Who, the show is very expensive to make and I doubt the Beeb could realistically afford more episodes per year. This year gap is, I suspect, due to scheduling clashes but also money. The BBC is being stretched thin by this current government and a gap year makes sense for them financially. Someone will no doubt mention the show makes more than it costs, it likely does but that money, at least part of it, ends up at BBC Worldwide and other parts of the Beeb rather than directly back into the production arm of the corporation.
no doubt about it the BBC is in very unsettled waters at the moment. having lost the Cash Cow of Top Gear and the Rebooted version looking already in trouble before it Airs. That leaves Dr Who which we know rakes in a tonne of money. One thing is certain if more went on its going to come out at some point, The Daily Mirror will see to that ![]() Edit. They must have heard me... lol http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/p...or-who-7245477 |
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#38 |
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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It's happened before, when they sacked Hinchcliffe in the '70s and forced a change in tone.
deja vu? |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 159
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I disagree that the BBC wanted more Doctor Who, the show is very expensive to make and I doubt the Beeb could realistically afford more episodes per year..
BBC Worldwide is a part of the BBC, but you're correct @Rooks to doubt that more would be directed to the production of Doctor Who, despite the fact that the BBC has made more money of it than from any other show. Season 10 is the same length as the other seasons. I'd take that to mean Capaldi will still be the Doctor. @oathy I really doubt you'd push someone out of a show and then invite them back to showrun a full season and two Christmas specials. I believe the BBC does want to break into the major US networks, which means giving BBC America time to replace its slot for new Doctor Who - and it has to do that with no regular series planned for 2016. 2 Christmas specials and 12 regular episodes provides the BBC with 16 hours (plus ads) to sell to a US network. Networks prefer 22 episodes, which breaks down to an additional 3 90 mins (without ads) specials that the BBC would need to fund this year.. The new regular companion would have to be an established IS actress or someone already known to US audiences to bring in viewers. It's a tough enough sell to get a network to take Doctor Who, but it's even harder when there's already a change in showrunner announced. |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 208
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Quote:
My guess as to how it's unfolded more or less....
- Moffat was considering when to leave a few years ago, pondering as early as Series 8 if it should be his last. He may have even briefly thought about bowing out alongside Jenna Coleman at the time, though later thought better of it. This is backed up by claims he made whilst promoting Series 8 that he knew he was closer to leaving than joining. - Moffat signed to do Series 9, and to some level of surprise so did Jenna Coleman. Ultimately Moffat did really consider 2015 to be his final year. He would see Clara out of the show, have one last Christmas special to tell whatever final story he wanted or to wrap up loose ends. He brings back River Song, after encouragement from RTD to do so - something we know to have definitely have happened. It was also previously confirmed that the 2015 Christmas special might have one point been Moffat's final contribution. - The BBC are aware of Moffat's plans to leave sooner rather than later, and consider their prospects for a successor. There is a chance they may have had a name or two in mind that didn't work out - possibly Toby Whithouse, or someone wholly new. Whether or not this was the case, they did ultimately settle on Chris Chibnall who agreed to take on the role... - ...however the BBC found themselves in a bit of a tricky situation. They had to show commitment to their own shows outside of Doctor Who, and the ready-to-go Steven Moffat was more keen to get on with Sherlock in 2016. Similarly, proposed successor Chris Chibnall was not available until much later in 2016, possibly early 2017 due to his commitment to Broadchurch. A Chibnall-led series would not be able to see the light of day until late 2017 at the earliest. - The BBC also notes the issues regarding DW: Series 9's poor scheduling. That broadcasting the show late in the year is proving problematic - putting it up against more needless competition, and sticking it out post-watershed as a result of Strictly getting in the way. This is backed up by a viewer decline that correlates perfectly with the later broadcast times since The Caretaker in Series 8, and to an extent by the far better performance of the Christmas special not just in terms of raw figures but in terms of its relative success on Christmas night. There was a clear need to move the show away from autumn, but there was no way of moving the show forward. - Faced with a situation where Doctor Who could be off air in 2016 AND 2017 because there is nobody to showrun it, Steven Moffat agrees (somewhat as a fan, somewhat because there was likely a nice sum of money involved) to stay on for one further year to soften the blow to the viewers. His further involvement means that the BBC can shift the show back to the spring schedule of old, resulting in a gap of only half a year more than usual - Series 10 would never have gone out earlier than Autumn 2016 anyway. - With only a few episodes of Sherlock to produce in 2016, Moffat proposes doing more-than-usual episodes of Doctor Who to satisfy fans and to soften the blow of the gap - this may have transferred into an extended Series 10, or 2016 Specials, there's no way to know. At any rate, it seems that this request was never granted... and given the BBC would want the show to go out in 2016 if it could my guess is that the reason is purely down to either contractual obligations regarding how much Capaldi can work per-series, or down to the BBC having to adhere to a limited drama budget. - Moffat does Series 10 out of loyalty and as a favour, without having to sacrifice Sherlock. Chibnall gets to do Series 11 straight after, not having to sacrifice Broadchurch. The BBC takes a bit of a hit for no 2016 series but overall a delay to the show of only about half a year - plus one more year of Moffat than they would have been anticipating which to them is a very good thing. - Peter Capaldi meanwhile will get a well-earned rest in 2016. Whether he decides to bow out with Moffat or continue with Chibnall remains to be seen. Moffat's departure now awkwardly correlates with the unspoken three-series rule which on the previous two occasions has been what led to the departure of the lead. However for now, as much as all of the above is complete speculation on my part, I'd say that Capaldi's own invovlement isn't directly under threat from any of this, none of these actions are down to his involvement and should he decide to unfortunately leave in 2017 then it will very likely be of his own accord. ![]() Excellent work Abomination! |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Posts: 5,733
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Thanks very much
I should solve crimes! |
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#42 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 554
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Moffat absolutely left on his own terms but I disagree that the BBC wanted more Doctor Who, the show is very expensive to make and I doubt the Beeb could realistically afford more episodes per year. This year gap is, I suspect, due to scheduling clashes but also money. The BBC is being stretched thin by this current government and a gap year makes sense for them financially. Someone will no doubt mention the show makes more than it costs, it likely does but that money, at least part of it, ends up at BBC Worldwide and other parts of the Beeb rather than directly back into the production arm of the corporation.
Each season of GoT is 10 episodes, so it's not as if other shows manage to churn out 20 episodes a year |
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#43 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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There's no way the Cardiff team could produce more than 13/14 episodes a year anyway,
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Each season of GoT is 10 episodes, so it's not as if other shows manage to churn out 20 episodes a year
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#44 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Just how long do you think the production of each episodes takes? Of course it is possible.
Shows on the major networks do generally produce 20+ episodes. 10 is about standard for cable channels. |
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#45 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 509
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Quote:
My guess as to how it's unfolded more or less....
- Moffat was considering when to leave a few years ago, pondering as early as Series 8 if it should be his last. He may have even briefly thought about bowing out alongside Jenna Coleman at the time, though later thought better of it. This is backed up by claims he made whilst promoting Series 8 that he knew he was closer to leaving than joining. - Moffat signed to do Series 9, and to some level of surprise so did Jenna Coleman. Ultimately Moffat did really consider 2015 to be his final year. He would see Clara out of the show, have one last Christmas special to tell whatever final story he wanted or to wrap up loose ends. He brings back River Song, after encouragement from RTD to do so - something we know to have definitely have happened. It was also previously confirmed that the 2015 Christmas special might have one point been Moffat's final contribution. - The BBC are aware of Moffat's plans to leave sooner rather than later, and consider their prospects for a successor. There is a chance they may have had a name or two in mind that didn't work out - possibly Toby Whithouse, or someone wholly new. Whether or not this was the case, they did ultimately settle on Chris Chibnall who agreed to take on the role... - ...however the BBC found themselves in a bit of a tricky situation. They had to show commitment to their own shows outside of Doctor Who, and the ready-to-go Steven Moffat was more keen to get on with Sherlock in 2016. Similarly, proposed successor Chris Chibnall was not available until much later in 2016, possibly early 2017 due to his commitment to Broadchurch. A Chibnall-led series would not be able to see the light of day until late 2017 at the earliest. - The BBC also notes the issues regarding DW: Series 9's poor scheduling. That broadcasting the show late in the year is proving problematic - putting it up against more needless competition, and sticking it out post-watershed as a result of Strictly getting in the way. This is backed up by a viewer decline that correlates perfectly with the later broadcast times since The Caretaker in Series 8, and to an extent by the far better performance of the Christmas special not just in terms of raw figures but in terms of its relative success on Christmas night. There was a clear need to move the show away from autumn, but there was no way of moving the show forward. - Faced with a situation where Doctor Who could be off air in 2016 AND 2017 because there is nobody to showrun it, Steven Moffat agrees (somewhat as a fan, somewhat because there was likely a nice sum of money involved) to stay on for one further year to soften the blow to the viewers. His further involvement means that the BBC can shift the show back to the spring schedule of old, resulting in a gap of only half a year more than usual - Series 10 would never have gone out earlier than Autumn 2016 anyway. - With only a few episodes of Sherlock to produce in 2016, Moffat proposes doing more-than-usual episodes of Doctor Who to satisfy fans and to soften the blow of the gap - this may have transferred into an extended Series 10, or 2016 Specials, there's no way to know. At any rate, it seems that this request was never granted... and given the BBC would want the show to go out in 2016 if it could my guess is that the reason is purely down to either contractual obligations regarding how much Capaldi can work per-series, or down to the BBC having to adhere to a limited drama budget. - Moffat does Series 10 out of loyalty and as a favour, without having to sacrifice Sherlock. Chibnall gets to do Series 11 straight after, not having to sacrifice Broadchurch. The BBC takes a bit of a hit for no 2016 series but overall a delay to the show of only about half a year - plus one more year of Moffat than they would have been anticipating which to them is a very good thing. - Peter Capaldi meanwhile will get a well-earned rest in 2016. Whether he decides to bow out with Moffat or continue with Chibnall remains to be seen. Moffat's departure now awkwardly correlates with the unspoken three-series rule which on the previous two occasions has been what led to the departure of the lead. However for now, as much as all of the above is complete speculation on my part, I'd say that Capaldi's own invovlement isn't directly under threat from any of this, none of these actions are down to his involvement and should he decide to unfortunately leave in 2017 then it will very likely be of his own accord. |
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#46 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,275
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Either way, I hope he returns on an episode-writer basis. His arc-plotting and big reveals may have been dwindling, but he still elevates the show intellectually like no other writer, as long as he hasn't written himself into a corner in a previous episode (which he often does as showrunner).
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#47 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Just how long do you think the production of each episodes takes? Of course it is possible [to produce more than 13/14 episodes a year].
Shows on the major networks do generally produce 20+ episodes. 10 is about standard for cable channels. First and foremost Doctor Who depends typically on dual-leads. It typically never has more than two main characters at any one time, and so it is pivotal that those two characters appear throughout the overwhelming majority of episodes...and more intensively in that in nearly every scene of those episodes. Compare that to any US-show that has 20+ episodes a year and they more often have ensemble casts. Some lead characters can fall into the background for weeks or even whole seasons at a time. You can have characters not show up for multiple weeks and that be normal, whilst in the world of Doctor Who an episode like Blink where the leads barely appear is considered a relative novelty across a decade. The structure of the cast of the show is demanding of the actors... you get as much Peter Capaldi screentime in 12 episodes of Doctor Who a year as you probably used to get Sarah Michelle Gellar screentime in 22 episodes of Buffy a year. Another thing to consider is location filming. Again these big 20+ episode American seasons will usually be grounded to central locations that can be used to film a huge bulk of footage all in one. You even end up with "bottle" episodes in which to save on budget these shows can depend on a skeleton crew, a skeleton cast and their regular set to keep things busy for the duration. Friends had an episode set entirely within the iconic apartment, Buffy the Vampire Slayer had its Magic Shop, The X Files had its FBI building. Places or sets that ground these shows, and in any number of episodes may be used to carry huge amounts of time. By comparison Doctor Who only has the Tardis control room - which is used considerably fleetingly throughout. An episode set largely in the Tardis is near on unprecedented, with the one example in the last decade also being considered a 'novelty' rather than 'normality' - and even then required the construction of more sets! In addition, Doctor Who has the added hardship of being set anywhere in time and space...sourcing locations for a show that can range from Victorian London and rural USA, to crashing spaceships and steampunk planets with flying fish is no easy or cheap task. Doctor Who does that week on week (even with the two-part structure, especially with Series 9, it never sat still in one place for too long). To further complicate matters, is the issue of acquiring access to filming locations. Whilst a US show like The X Files could quite easily film a dramatic looking scene on a wide open Californian or Canadian landscape with minimal disruption, the UK is far more crowded and condensed. Location filming is typically more expensive, has to work around public access to many locations and is dependent on far less reliable weather for filming as well. All of these issues, as well as a different structure to writing British shows, and typically a smaller budget to work from as well. A long post this may be, but it's still only the basics of why proposing more episodes than we currently get isn't too realistic an option. |
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#48 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 697
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Just how long do you think the production of each episodes takes? Of course it is possible.
Shows on the major networks do generally produce 20+ episodes. 10 is about standard for cable channels. American shows that do 20+ also have longer time to film, and some may film for 16 hrs a day, i know Buffy took very long to film. And they use the same setting for a large part as well. Not as easy as you think it is. |
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#49 |
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you get as much Peter Capaldi screentime in 12 episodes of Doctor Who a year as you probably used to get Sarah Michelle Gellar screentime in 22 episodes of Buffy a year.
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#50 |
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I agree with your post, except that statement isn't correct. She got a lot of screentime.
Compare that then to Doctor Who, which has a main cast typically of just two actors. The Doctor and the companion are the guest stars in the story of wherever they land... be that seeing Charles Dickens in Cardiff, the Time Lords on Gallifrey or Elizabeth X on a space whale. We see all of this just through their eyes... the majority of the scenes in nearly every episode will feature both characters. And it's a typically minimal number than include neither of them at all. The show seldom cycles through many other characters, barring those monster-of-the-week establishing shots. It's surprising how many more minutes of screentime will add up and for the sake of the argument as to whether or not doing more is realistically possible it begins to seem unlikely that it is a feasible option. A rare example of a US show that depended upon a duo-cast format but featured a high episode count was, again, The X Files. However the show is now notoriously recognised for the intensity of the workload that that filming involved (keeping in mind again that much could be shot on bulk on the same sets, unlike Doctor Who) and a huge part of the process in agreeing to the current revival of the show was establishing how many episodes they could realistically do. David Duchnovny is a few years younger than Peter Capaldi and fairly insisted he was simply too old to ever do another 20 part season of the show again. They've ultimately settled on doing 6. But that's six episodes where he and Gillian Anderson, like Capaldi and Jenna Coleman will have been in the vast majority of scenes. Unlike most ensemble cast shows you can pick out where there is a very convincing illusion - an illusion that doesn't refute the fact that the main cast still get some hefty screentime, but still hides the fact that a 20-episode commitment in an ensemble cast won't equate to much more or indeed possibly any additional filming compared to a 12-episode solo/duo commitment.
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