As the title says:
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...fat-doctor-who
Fair and pretty accurate assessment I think.
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...fat-doctor-who
Fair and pretty accurate assessment I think.
Very good Overview Article by the Guardian
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Its about same as the other stuff, PC is "Expected" to leave after what everybody deems to be the mandatory(LOL) 3 series and to be replaced by a rising star younger doctor,
Moffat's not gone yet. It's another 1 and a half to 2 years before he finally goes (depending on whether he's writing 2017's Christmas Special). We've an entire year with no Doctor Who and another series to get through first before he leaves and Chibnall can take over. I don't think there's any point in bidding him farewell and beginning the retrospectives just yet.
I just didn't recognise Moffat's Who in this article.
Romantic? Passionate? Just not words I'd associate with the show since 2010.
Romantic? Passionate? Just not words I'd associate with the show since 2010.
Nothing to do with this, but here's an article about David Tennant I found whilst clearing out old news papers. Saves starting a new thread.
The Guardian loved nothing more than brown-nosing Moffat. It's something I'll not miss once he's finally gone. Rarely, if ever, did they offer up a word of criticism, primarily because Moffat is a self-confessed, Guardian-reading 'leftie'.
Originally Posted by Mulett:
“I just didn't recognise Moffat's Who in this article.
Romantic? Passionate? Just not words I'd associate with the show since 2010.”
“I just didn't recognise Moffat's Who in this article.
Romantic? Passionate? Just not words I'd associate with the show since 2010.”
I agree. "Passionate storylines"?? LOL *slurp slurp*
I think in time and looking back with some distance and perspective then the true opinion of Moffat's era will come forward.
RTD era is looked back on very favourably, it had a lot of criticism when it was on but as the years go on since it came to an end its only looked on even more positively.
I think within time Moffats era will be looked back on and seen as the mess that it is, some great ideas in it and lots to enjoy but a mess, it won't be looked back on as favourably as RTD era. The poor arcs that are nonsense will sully the era, the poor characterisation (RTD era characters will hold up, Moffats won't) also brings it down (hey Amy Rory shouldn't you care that you lost your daughter, nah its ok she turned into River, we don't need to have her in our life and bring her up, we'll just easily move past that we lost our baby)
Moffats era will be remember for a lot of artificial reasons, it won't be remember for heart and great yarns, it will be remembered the way some of the 80s DW is (such as Trial of the Time Lord), its not remembered because of quality but rather because the stories have stuff put into it that plays into the grand mythology of DW. Moffat has made a point to include a lot of ooh DW mythology stuff, regeneration issue, The Doc's name (that went nowhere) the Doctor having a wife (that we actually see on screen rather than applied and is off screen) Time war stuff including the grand moment, a secret Doctor, male to female regenerations (to be fair that was a good thing to include) bringing back lots of old enemies, making the Tardis a women, giving the Doctor place of death according to the universe, giving a companion her own Tardis, making a companion save all the doctors and made him choose which Tardis to take and so on..... its all stuff that's like spraying over a wall and going remember me, it comes across as calculating and therefor artificial, RTD era will be remembered fondly (and I have problems with that era, to earth bound etc) for its characters and many great tales, its not trying to be remembered by including certain DW mythology stuff rather its just concentrating on telling stories and characters and that's why ultimately it will be remembered more fondly.
This is just how I read it, so don't get sweaty if you disagree
RTD era is looked back on very favourably, it had a lot of criticism when it was on but as the years go on since it came to an end its only looked on even more positively.
I think within time Moffats era will be looked back on and seen as the mess that it is, some great ideas in it and lots to enjoy but a mess, it won't be looked back on as favourably as RTD era. The poor arcs that are nonsense will sully the era, the poor characterisation (RTD era characters will hold up, Moffats won't) also brings it down (hey Amy Rory shouldn't you care that you lost your daughter, nah its ok she turned into River, we don't need to have her in our life and bring her up, we'll just easily move past that we lost our baby)
Moffats era will be remember for a lot of artificial reasons, it won't be remember for heart and great yarns, it will be remembered the way some of the 80s DW is (such as Trial of the Time Lord), its not remembered because of quality but rather because the stories have stuff put into it that plays into the grand mythology of DW. Moffat has made a point to include a lot of ooh DW mythology stuff, regeneration issue, The Doc's name (that went nowhere) the Doctor having a wife (that we actually see on screen rather than applied and is off screen) Time war stuff including the grand moment, a secret Doctor, male to female regenerations (to be fair that was a good thing to include) bringing back lots of old enemies, making the Tardis a women, giving the Doctor place of death according to the universe, giving a companion her own Tardis, making a companion save all the doctors and made him choose which Tardis to take and so on..... its all stuff that's like spraying over a wall and going remember me, it comes across as calculating and therefor artificial, RTD era will be remembered fondly (and I have problems with that era, to earth bound etc) for its characters and many great tales, its not trying to be remembered by including certain DW mythology stuff rather its just concentrating on telling stories and characters and that's why ultimately it will be remembered more fondly.
This is just how I read it, so don't get sweaty if you disagree
Sweat Free. Disagree. It often happens that the current Showrunner gets a lot of stick and is regarded more kindly when they move on and we have some distance. Happened to RTD, who was fiercely criticised by some, will happen with Moffat. Seen it with Williams and, to a degree, JNT.
My take anyway. I've enjoyed both eras, but I don't know....Just think Moffat's might mature slightly better in the long run. "Time will tell....." etc
My take anyway. I've enjoyed both eras, but I don't know....Just think Moffat's might mature slightly better in the long run. "Time will tell....." etc
Originally Posted by Kapellmeister:
“The Guardian loved nothing more than brown-nosing Moffat. It's something I'll not miss once he's finally gone. Rarely, if ever, did they offer up a word of criticism, primarily because Moffat is a self-confessed, Guardian-reading 'leftie'.”
“The Guardian loved nothing more than brown-nosing Moffat. It's something I'll not miss once he's finally gone. Rarely, if ever, did they offer up a word of criticism, primarily because Moffat is a self-confessed, Guardian-reading 'leftie'.”
...and has absolutley nothing to do with actually liking the episodes?
Lol. You are funny.
I agree with most of what you have written but in particular this:
I have mentioned before on this forum how Moffat doesn't seem able to set a foot wrong with the national journalists who've been reviewing the past couple of seasons of Who, particularly since Capaldi took over as the Doctor.
Even with the show shedding 20% of its viewers and massive missteps like 'Sleep No More', all we've seen is "more of the same please" or "Moffat is a genius". For me, this this article is reflective of that.
And yet more nonsense about the show only becoming an international hit because of Moffat. God forbid the reporter should have actually done some research!
Originally Posted by PaperSkin:
“Moffat has made a point to include a lot of ooh DW mythology stuff, regeneration issue, The Doc's name (that went nowhere) the Doctor having a wife (that we actually see on screen rather than applied and is off screen) Time war stuff including the grand moment, a secret Doctor, male to female regenerations (to be fair that was a good thing to include) bringing back lots of old enemies, making the Tardis a women, giving the Doctor place of death according to the universe, giving a companion her own Tardis, making a companion save all the doctors and made him choose which Tardis to take and so on..... its all stuff that's like spraying over a wall and going remember me, it comes across as calculating and therefor artificial.”
“Moffat has made a point to include a lot of ooh DW mythology stuff, regeneration issue, The Doc's name (that went nowhere) the Doctor having a wife (that we actually see on screen rather than applied and is off screen) Time war stuff including the grand moment, a secret Doctor, male to female regenerations (to be fair that was a good thing to include) bringing back lots of old enemies, making the Tardis a women, giving the Doctor place of death according to the universe, giving a companion her own Tardis, making a companion save all the doctors and made him choose which Tardis to take and so on..... its all stuff that's like spraying over a wall and going remember me, it comes across as calculating and therefor artificial.”
I have mentioned before on this forum how Moffat doesn't seem able to set a foot wrong with the national journalists who've been reviewing the past couple of seasons of Who, particularly since Capaldi took over as the Doctor.
Even with the show shedding 20% of its viewers and massive missteps like 'Sleep No More', all we've seen is "more of the same please" or "Moffat is a genius". For me, this this article is reflective of that.
And yet more nonsense about the show only becoming an international hit because of Moffat. God forbid the reporter should have actually done some research!
Originally Posted by Michael_Eve:
“Sweat Free. Disagree. It often happens that the current Showrunner gets a lot of stick and is regarded more kindly when they move on and we have some distance. Happened to RTD, who was fiercely criticised by some, will happen with Moffat. Seen it with Williams and, to a degree, JNT.”
“Sweat Free. Disagree. It often happens that the current Showrunner gets a lot of stick and is regarded more kindly when they move on and we have some distance. Happened to RTD, who was fiercely criticised by some, will happen with Moffat. Seen it with Williams and, to a degree, JNT.”
It happens with the actors too. At the start of 2013 Matt Smith was vocally despised by the louder people on the internet and yet by the end of the year as soon as he'd left it was a completely different tune. Catherine Tate is another example as lots of people were calling out that she would get the show cancelled for turning it into a comedy and now she's a very popular companion.
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“...and has absolutley nothing to do with actually liking the episodes?
Lol. You are funny.”
“...and has absolutley nothing to do with actually liking the episodes?
Lol. You are funny.”
Don't be so ludicrous, only over-excited fanboys and bribed tabloids have anything positive to say about Moffat!
Originally Posted by Lord Smexy:
“Don't be so ludicrous, only over-excited fanboys and bribed tabloids have anything positive to say about Moffat!”
“Don't be so ludicrous, only over-excited fanboys and bribed tabloids have anything positive to say about Moffat!”
I'd prefer to be a bribed fanboy. Is there a way of applying?
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“I'd prefer to be a bribed fanboy. Is there a way of applying?”
“I'd prefer to be a bribed fanboy. Is there a way of applying?”
Well, Steven Moffat offered me a Dalek statuette and a pat on the back if I got an account on here and said I absolutely loved Series 9, even though it's a bit rubbish really because bring back RTD.
Truthfully, the critical acclaim for Series 9 was faked and nobody liked it, it was just a media-wide conspiracy to upset people who don't like Moffat. The naughty sods.
Originally Posted by PaperSkin:
“I think in time and looking back with some distance and perspective then the true opinion of Moffat's era will come forward.
RTD era is looked back on very favourably, it had a lot of criticism when it was on but as the years go on since it came to an end its only looked on even more positively.
I think within time Moffats era will be looked back on and seen as the mess that it is, some great ideas in it and lots to enjoy but a mess, it won't be looked back on as favourably as RTD era. The poor arcs that are nonsense will sully the era, the poor characterisation (RTD era characters will hold up, Moffats won't) also brings it down (hey Amy Rory shouldn't you care that you lost your daughter, nah its ok she turned into River, we don't need to have her in our life and bring her up, we'll just easily move past that we lost our baby)
Moffats era will be remember for a lot of artificial reasons, it won't be remember for heart and great yarns, it will be remembered the way some of the 80s DW is (such as Trial of the Time Lord), its not remembered because of quality but rather because the stories have stuff put into it that plays into the grand mythology of DW. Moffat has made a point to include a lot of ooh DW mythology stuff, regeneration issue, The Doc's name (that went nowhere) the Doctor having a wife (that we actually see on screen rather than applied and is off screen) Time war stuff including the grand moment, a secret Doctor, male to female regenerations (to be fair that was a good thing to include) bringing back lots of old enemies, making the Tardis a women, giving the Doctor place of death according to the universe, giving a companion her own Tardis, making a companion save all the doctors and made him choose which Tardis to take and so on..... its all stuff that's like spraying over a wall and going remember me, it comes across as calculating and therefor artificial, RTD era will be remembered fondly (and I have problems with that era, to earth bound etc) for its characters and many great tales, its not trying to be remembered by including certain DW mythology stuff rather its just concentrating on telling stories and characters and that's why ultimately it will be remembered more fondly.
This is just how I read it, so don't get sweaty if you disagree”
“I think in time and looking back with some distance and perspective then the true opinion of Moffat's era will come forward.
RTD era is looked back on very favourably, it had a lot of criticism when it was on but as the years go on since it came to an end its only looked on even more positively.
I think within time Moffats era will be looked back on and seen as the mess that it is, some great ideas in it and lots to enjoy but a mess, it won't be looked back on as favourably as RTD era. The poor arcs that are nonsense will sully the era, the poor characterisation (RTD era characters will hold up, Moffats won't) also brings it down (hey Amy Rory shouldn't you care that you lost your daughter, nah its ok she turned into River, we don't need to have her in our life and bring her up, we'll just easily move past that we lost our baby)
Moffats era will be remember for a lot of artificial reasons, it won't be remember for heart and great yarns, it will be remembered the way some of the 80s DW is (such as Trial of the Time Lord), its not remembered because of quality but rather because the stories have stuff put into it that plays into the grand mythology of DW. Moffat has made a point to include a lot of ooh DW mythology stuff, regeneration issue, The Doc's name (that went nowhere) the Doctor having a wife (that we actually see on screen rather than applied and is off screen) Time war stuff including the grand moment, a secret Doctor, male to female regenerations (to be fair that was a good thing to include) bringing back lots of old enemies, making the Tardis a women, giving the Doctor place of death according to the universe, giving a companion her own Tardis, making a companion save all the doctors and made him choose which Tardis to take and so on..... its all stuff that's like spraying over a wall and going remember me, it comes across as calculating and therefor artificial, RTD era will be remembered fondly (and I have problems with that era, to earth bound etc) for its characters and many great tales, its not trying to be remembered by including certain DW mythology stuff rather its just concentrating on telling stories and characters and that's why ultimately it will be remembered more fondly.
This is just how I read it, so don't get sweaty if you disagree
”
I'm not sweaty but is there any chance that you could put your awesome skills at predicting the future to a better use and post next weeks winning lotto numbers?
Originally Posted by Lord Smexy:
“Well, Steven Moffat offered me a Dalek statuette and a pat on the back if I got an account on here and said I absolutely loved Series 9, even though it's a bit rubbish really because bring back RTD.
Truthfully, the critical acclaim for Series 9 was faked and nobody liked it, it was just a media-wide conspiracy to upset people who don't like Moffat. The naughty sods.”
“Well, Steven Moffat offered me a Dalek statuette and a pat on the back if I got an account on here and said I absolutely loved Series 9, even though it's a bit rubbish really because bring back RTD.
Truthfully, the critical acclaim for Series 9 was faked and nobody liked it, it was just a media-wide conspiracy to upset people who don't like Moffat. The naughty sods.”
RTD was hardly vilified in the press either when he was Showrunner too. Lauded, more like. Just saying!
Originally Posted by Lord Smexy:
“Well, Steven Moffat offered me a Dalek statuette and a pat on the back if I got an account on here and said I absolutely loved Series 9, even though it's a bit rubbish really because bring back RTD.
Truthfully, the critical acclaim for Series 9 was faked and nobody liked it, it was just a media-wide conspiracy to upset people who don't like Moffat. The naughty sods.”
“Well, Steven Moffat offered me a Dalek statuette and a pat on the back if I got an account on here and said I absolutely loved Series 9, even though it's a bit rubbish really because bring back RTD.
Truthfully, the critical acclaim for Series 9 was faked and nobody liked it, it was just a media-wide conspiracy to upset people who don't like Moffat. The naughty sods.”
Oh.
I must not have liked it, either, then. I must have been swept up in the fanoy orgy spouted by the corrupt and bribed critics.
Was this the same for me when I also thoroughly enjoyed the RTD stuff? And the bits of the Classic era I watched when I was a child? Or is it solely the Moff era that is only liked due to the neurolinguistic programming?
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“Oh.
I must not have liked it, either, then. I must have been swept up in the fanoy orgy spouted by the corrupt and bribed critics.
Was this the same for me when I also thoroughly enjoyed the RTD stuff? And the bits of the Classic era I watched when I was a child? Or is it solely the Moff era that is only liked due to the neurolinguistic programming?”
“Oh.
I must not have liked it, either, then. I must have been swept up in the fanoy orgy spouted by the corrupt and bribed critics.
Was this the same for me when I also thoroughly enjoyed the RTD stuff? And the bits of the Classic era I watched when I was a child? Or is it solely the Moff era that is only liked due to the neurolinguistic programming?”
No, it's just Moffat. Everyone knows RTD was cheated out of the showrunner position by Moffat's dastardly scheming.
I heard ITV are offering support classes for this rather cheeky conspiracy.
Originally Posted by Michael_Eve:
“RTD was hardly vilified in the press either when he was Showrunner too. Lauded, more like. Just saying!”
“RTD was hardly vilified in the press either when he was Showrunner too. Lauded, more like. Just saying!”
The mystery deepens...
Originally Posted by Michael_Eve:
“RTD was hardly vilified in the press either when he was Showrunner too. Lauded, more like. Just saying!”
“RTD was hardly vilified in the press either when he was Showrunner too. Lauded, more like. Just saying!”
To give some context to that, its important to remember that when RTD was in charge the show was at the top of its game - constantly winning popular awards, massive viewing figures, a popular cast and a worldwide hit (prior to Moffat taking over).
The issue with articles like this is that they present an idea of the show having become more successful under Moffat which I don't personally believe is supported by the evidence. Moffat is leaving the show in a poorer state than he inherited it - a big chunk of viewers are gone and the show and its cast are getting fewer nominations and wins for popular awards.
But I don't think for a moment these reporters/reviewers are being bribed. I think they genuinely love Moffat's version of Doctor Who. Its just a shame the nationals, like the Guardian, doesn't give a voice to one of the 1.5m who've switched off.
Originally Posted by Mulett:
“To give some context to that, its important to remember that when RTD was in charge the show was at the top of its game - constantly winning popular awards, massive viewing figures, a popular cast and a worldwide hit (prior to Moffat taking over).
The issue with articles like this is that they present an idea of the show having become more successful under Moffat which I don't personally believe is supported by the evidence. Moffat is leaving the show in a poorer state than he inherited it - a big chunk of viewers are gone and the show and its cast are getting fewer nominations and wins for popular awards.
But I don't think for a moment these reporters/reviewers are being bribed. I think they genuinely love Moffat's version of Doctor Who. Its just a shame the nationals, like the Guardian, doesn't give a voice to one of the 1.5m who've switched off.”
“To give some context to that, its important to remember that when RTD was in charge the show was at the top of its game - constantly winning popular awards, massive viewing figures, a popular cast and a worldwide hit (prior to Moffat taking over).
The issue with articles like this is that they present an idea of the show having become more successful under Moffat which I don't personally believe is supported by the evidence. Moffat is leaving the show in a poorer state than he inherited it - a big chunk of viewers are gone and the show and its cast are getting fewer nominations and wins for popular awards.
But I don't think for a moment these reporters/reviewers are being bribed. I think they genuinely love Moffat's version of Doctor Who. Its just a shame the nationals, like the Guardian, doesn't give a voice to one of the 1.5m who've switched off.”
You've not read the comments attached! I thought this place could be negative. Anyway, I wouldn't particularly like to see the show slagged off even if I really really disliked an era. Admittedly that hasn't happened to me. Not yet. I'm a Lambert etc fanboy!
Originally Posted by Michael_Eve:
“You've not read the comments attached! I thought this place could be negative. Anyway, I wouldn't particularly like to see the show slagged off even if I really really disliked an era. Admittedly that hasn't happened to me. Not yet. I'm a Lambert etc fanboy!”
“You've not read the comments attached! I thought this place could be negative. Anyway, I wouldn't particularly like to see the show slagged off even if I really really disliked an era. Admittedly that hasn't happened to me. Not yet. I'm a Lambert etc fanboy!
”
You're probably right. Whilst I would get some satisfaction reading a critical review of Moffat's Doctor Who, it could compromise the show itself and I wouldn't want that.
I hope that all of this heresay that I'm reading about the place about the BBC wanting a younger actor for the role because they feel that audiences couldn't connect to an older Doctor are just that. Otherwise it means that they'll have no faith in an older actor in the future. Regeneration is supposed to be exciting and unpredictable, I like not knowing what we're going to get every time. Any actor of any age should be able to bring their interpretation to it.
I don't want to watch the show if it's going to be pretty much the same type of Doctor each time.
I don't want to watch the show if it's going to be pretty much the same type of Doctor each time.
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