Could the John Haters tell me what he has specifically done that has caused you to want him out. In my mind the only thing he has done wrong has been voting for his mate Darren in the noms, major weird move I agree. This isn't a pitch for John, I honestly need it breaking down for me. Cos other housemates have got away with a lot worse and he seems to have taken a total hammering for it. Thanks

In word... Knicker-gate!! ...okay, technically two words, but i did hyphenate it!

I thought all the men were at fault for that (Chris, Darren and John) and then the women made it worse (Gemma, Daniella and "best friend" Megan). So if one is hated the others should be too.

Deal! *shakes on it*

… and the way he was trying to get Tiffany out after the David Gest fasco!

I don't "hate" John by any means, I just dislike his controlling behaviour. Hope that helps.

(True, recently he seems to have backed off a lot leaving Gemma to fill the role of villain.)

There was also several involved in that episode.

I don't mind John but I think the reason he gets the blame for that was that he was the one who made the name and shame comments. Plus he was the one who went straight to the bedroom to inform Gemma and Danniella about the knickers.

John was the one shrieking that the owner of the undergarment should be named & shamed.
He reminds me of the Francis Urqhart character, "you may think that, I couldn't possible comment". He is very good at manipulation & deflection and Tiffany was spit on when they had their conversation in the bathroom. Still want to know if they did that deal.

As much as I dislike Gemma, she has generally been right about John too. He just can't help that passive aggressive stirring.

I wasn't a fan before he went in the house but I did start to warm to him , but knickergate put an end to any support I had for him .

Hmmmm, I did forget about knicker-gate (I will accept it as one word KT_Dog, lol) - yes that was very immature of him, and throwing someone under the shame-bus, but I do feel that a lot of the others jumped on the bus and rang the bell loads! (actually I think it was dreadful for BB to include that in the program, very degrading for Steph, not a fan of her, but that was awful). I do think it was bad of him to nominate Darren, who then milked it for all he was worth, but he is getting badly boo-ed every week even before knicker-gate and it doesn't make sense to me.

he wasn't the only one, Gemma, Daniella & Kristina all wanted Tiffany out too

Pot and Kettle comes to mind

He is very patronising and has this superior air about him.

I can see that in him, but is there any particular incident that has really shown that personality trait being used to the worst. (apart from knicker-gate and nomming Darren)

I blow hot and cold with John. He was my favourite at the start, went off him, liked him again, off him again and so on and so forth. Did not like what he done in Knickergate, but I can get over that

I'm hoping he and Tiffany are safe tonight .

Exactly. I think she recognises traits in John she herself has.

Agreed. I've never liked him, and he's doing nothing in the house to change my opinion of him.

Actually OP, reason is, people needs a villain and a scapegoat & I guess John fits the bill.
Anything John does in the house is minutely scrutinised & god forbid if he put a foot wrong everyone will jump on him.
Whether he was involved or not he will get the blame.

No point in asking these people as they're blinded by their hatred towards him & you will not get a truthful answer, just excuses.

True, but he was the instigator. Plus he lied, which irritated me. He repeated "she needs to go" several times then said to Tiffany's face "I wasn't saying I wanted you to go, others were". He tried to be spokesperson too many times, which I found annoying.

Having said that, I certainly don't hate John. He's one of the only ones who has the balls to stand up to Gemma, which I respect.

I do want to know what the hell that scene in the bathroom between him and Tiffany was all about though... what deal? It was so very weird and never followed up on.

No, Gemma is quite open & aggresive with her stirring. John is far more sophisticated in his stirring activities which can be more deadly. With someone like Gemma or Steph, at least the object of their stirring can see it &'chose to respond, or not, in the manner they see fit. John is clever enough to be far more sneaky.

He actually asked them who the knickers belonged to, he didn't rush in to personally inform those two.

Could you give us some examples of these stirring activities?

Thanks all, that has made it a bit clearer for me - I do agree with Skyrah's point that he is more harshly judged than the others and I also hope that he and Tiff are safe, because Tiff makes me laugh like an old drain!