Well, I suppose we all endlessly go round in circles at times in our lives (don't you?), but usually there is an "upward" progression on the curve. This is how I see Steph's journey in there. I have already provided enough evidence of this, so don't need to keep repeating myself. She's not going to be Mother Mary within the space of 4 weeks. We're talking about the context of BB.

It's funny how you say she "forgets" advice 15 minutes later. First of all, who says the advice is valid? From so called other mature ones who FAILED to see that her relationship with Jeremy was genuine and helped to INCREASE her angst over that - like Gemma Collins bitching at her and poking her nose in - that advice? Or Dani saying "You'll never work again" to a person who is already DEEPLY insecure. Or perhaps it's John's advice to "Just shut up about it" when she's garnering some inner self confidence at a key moment after being saved from eviction. Maybe that's the advice you refer to?

I DO get the point that she often does not listen. And repeats errors. But the "advice" itself is often questionable or at least NOT delivered appropriately or in the best way (as Dani herself has admitted many times, for example).

My OP was simply to point out what is quite apparent. She's been through the mill and - to a degree - come out the other end in terms of learning much about who she is and generating a lot of recent support. I believe she'll make it in life.

As to the "effort" I put into it, well it gives me something to do. But I suppose you drop in here purely for fun

I think Steph will keep doing as she does until it no longer serves her, simple as that.

At the moment it does her well, so she won't change.

She'll move from one group to another, doing the same thing, getting 'help' she doesn't listen to from people who get sick of her and realise they have wasted their time and energy.

And move on again, lower and lower until she reaches rock bottom and is forced to have a good look at herself honestly and make a huge effort to change her behaviour and mindset.


This MAY not happen, and I HOPE it doesn't, but at the moment, to me, it looks likely, especially if she stays in show business.

I'm done with her though, people like that drain the life out of those who try to help them. And it's useless anyway.

Appreciate that. Most people who watch this show (not all, but the majority I would say), get quite passionate about it. It's all down to the human element for me and recognising traits and experiences in HMs that we know about ourselves and seeing how they deal with it all. To try and be so cynical about it, and towards OP's like the one I posted, as a few have been is really quite disingenuous because such cynics are themselves also quite emotionally involved, although they perhaps won't admit it. And if not, why are they even on here?

But, 't is all good and next week we shall all be looking for our next fix

Rhumbatugger - thanks a lot for your comments. Just off for a break and will respond in a bit (I'm sure you're waiting with baited breath - haha!)

I couldn't go to work today, in too much damned pain again, but I'm nicely doped up now and bored.

My breath is bated enough

Hey I admire your take on her..and definite enthusiasm for the show we all share.

Yes for the most part I drop in here for fun, because lets face it, BB in any series is escapism from life's daily drudgery, and consequently should be something that is fun and enjoyable to both watch and debate.

Sometimes it's no fun we know (see Winston, his attitudes and his stitch up by C.5)..but even then, it's at least enjoyable to read, or get involved with.

Occasionally an advocate on behalf of someone, can cause a simultaneous 'Double 007' raise of the eyebrows, and definitely my passport picture if taken when reading your perspective would be ..which for me would be flattering !!

Didn't she say on the highlights last night that she was 'a quarter of the age' of some of the others? Funny, as I haven't noticed any 88 year-olds in there.

They feel 88 though, after a month of living with Steph.

I don't think they've adapted much.

Steph - has no idea why people get so weighed down in her faults, she doesn't dwell on others' business for long and prefers others to do the same

Tiff - prefers straight talking and straight talkers and doesn't understand others who don't step up, though she did adapt well when isolated.

John and Dani feel drained.
Steph and Tiff feel suffocated.

In spite of the fact that she badgers and talks their ear off and shouts around the place chucking things all the time, it never occurs to her that others get 'weighed' down'? True enough, she's that insensitive.

She certainly doesn't bother and isn't affected by other's problems.

what "journey" has anyone been on they've been locked in a house for a few weeks.
journey means to travel from one place to another, or to change one's location.
I can never understand the use of this word in this context, or is it just the 'in' word at the moment.

I've gotta say, some very valid points in your comments. It has made me think, because I actually have someone close in my family rather like Steph, and so this is perhaps a bit of a significant issue for me personally in some ways.

This is my view, based on some of the things you said:

One real possibility of what you pointed out is that she may end up at "rock bottom" at some stage in her life before she truly learns the error of her ways. Very good point. She has developed certain learning behaviours that, as you say, get her "off the hook". She does have responsibility issues. This is bordering on possibly being some kind of personality disorder (but I'm just musing and don't want to create ANY debate over such labels).

But, there is a point I fundamentally disagree on. She has DEEP insecurity issues. This is where much of her "acting out" comes from. It is NOT from a place of not caring or others being "meaningless" to her, as I think you suggested. She has shown too much to me (based on what we can gather on a TV show, of course) that would go against the view that she is what some may describe as a "sociopath". The extreme end of someone who really does not care about other's feelings at all, and will always put their own first. There have been too many instances where she has shown unconditional support for others and genuine warmth (I have already posted examples previously on this and am a bit bored now trying to provide a fair reflection of that genuine side to her).

This is my main observation of her reasons for "acting out". Every single instance that I have seen her do this has always been in RESPONSE to a perceived threat. And, no, it's not always just made up in her mind. It is genuinely people misunderstanding her and her needs. She is very immature and has not learnt yet how to communicate her needs properly. So, people don't get her, and therefore may have a poke at her (Gemma displayed this the most), and in turn she responds in kind. That's where we particularly get to see the "brattish" element. And at those times she DOES come across pretty unpleasant.

However, she always makes up with them. She may go on a lot and return to old arguments at times when she again feels threatened, but she seems to be a very forgiving person (the support she gave to Gemma while she was walking up those stairs, which looked really genuine to me, speaks volumes).

So, that's how I see her and why I feel a little involved in supporting her. I think she is a really good soul and this needs to be harnessed by those around her. Someone like Jeremy is PERFECT for that (he was one of my other favourites from the start). A man who truly sees her for who she is

True. I used to share in a student house with someone like her. Never a dull moment. Great fun but the difference was we could escape and come up for air. Outside of the show I doubt John or Dani would keep on at her - they'd agree to differ or drift apart.

Agree. I feel nothing but indifference towards her for that reason. She lacks that essential human something to get you on side - warmth, empathy. Despite all the 'fire', I find her quite a cold person.

I don't see any journey where she's concerned. Oh I'm sure she'll talk the talk when she comes out but I bet it will be all about what she's overcome and the great strides she, Stephanie, has made, rather than how others have impacted on her, what she's learned from them and how it's made her want to be a better Stephanie. That would be a journey.

I don't think anyone in there has been on a journey. I think that when they went in they were all up their own a...s and they will still be up them when they come out.

This is the tragedy - she has potential as a person. Yes, she's fun and genuinely capable of warmth, and she's generous.

But I don't think it's hard for her to be kind in the way she is. It doesn't COST her too much, it makes her feel good, and it's easy for her to do.

And ultimately it's more ATTENTION on her. It gets her 'love', and then she can carry on being her reckless, needy self.

I don't know HOW it can be 'harnessed' exactly - if she could translate it into REAL consideration, practical help, moderating her behaviour etc. then that would be it.

But AGAIN, we come full circle, it NEVER seems to. It remains as heartfelt AT THE TIME, but GESTURE, rather than action.

They carry on doing the same thing.

And again this is because it SERVES them. So ultimately they are self serving and, I don't know, rather 'hard', actually, ultimately their 'warmth' is skin deep, not real.


I've been friends with two people like this, it was exhausting and sort of heartbreaking. The way I coped was to see them not too often, and brace myself for the torrent of self obsession, have a good laugh with them, they were both very amusing, and cope with the feeling of sort of sadness, anger and frustration they leave you with.

This was after protracted periods of uselessly trying to help, and being driven a bit doolally and being irritated to death by them both.

Some people DO change though, that's what you keep hoping, but the really chronically self obsessed ones, often don't in my experience. They have to be coped with. And you have to protect YOURSELF from them.

Now I'm older, I just do what I can, and wish them the best and don't get emotionally involved with it all. It's up to THEM. They're like emotional addicts.

But they live their lives, make their choices and get on with it in varying ways.

Well and succinctly put viva.

It's a fair post. As I say I have a close family member who resembles some of these traits - but more extreme - and have to agree with some of your points. I have been through the same experiences you describe, believe me.

But we're just going to have to differ on the extent to which Steph herself is of that "ilk".

Plenty of evidence for me of a real innocence there and a genuine person.

Nice post. And that BIB made me really laugh!

Enough serious evidence for ME now, that Steph actually IS like that.

And she's not sophisticated or amusing enough to make her even interesting.

Totally agree with everything you've said about Steph but particularly about the innocence and being genuine.

OK, I get you

It adds a whole different dimension when it's someone you love unconditionally.

I agree with a lot of what you've posted in the thread.
My gut instinct is she will mature into quite a charismatic character.
I recognise her selfishness, short sightedness and idealisation of fantasy relationships in my younger self - I didn't start really growing up until I was about 3 years older than her

There's a lot of identification flying about I suspect.

There's parts of Steph I understand because I identify a little with her too. Especially when I was young.

I was too rational and tough on myself to believe that sort of self hype for longer than five minutes though. Besides I had good old fashioned shame.

I also have big identification stuff with John, although in many ways we are not alike at all.

It's all interesting

Steph is dull and bland so I expect a lot of young girls are able to project onto her boring, blank canvas and feel that they identify with her.

She'll be forgotten by the weekend.