I suspect Chibnall will dial right back on the fantasy, fairy-tale and myth elements. What he might bring to the table instead is another question. Both RTD and Moffat for better or worse managed to give their era's a strongly defined sense of identity, right from their entire take on the show through to the characters and the writing and even the visuals- it takes only a fraction of a second to tell if you are watching an episode by one or the other. They each brought something distinct and brand new to the history of the show while respecting the past. I think this is ultimately the job and aim of any good show-runner. I just wonder what Chibnall is going to bring to the show that we havent seen before? Answers on a postcard! (Actually probably best just type them here,,,postcards take ages).
Series 9 - After the dust has settled...
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The only S9 episode I have watched a second time was Heaven Sent, simply because I hated it so much on first viewing I wanted to give it a second go to see if my opinion would change (it didn't). I have rarely felt the need to watch an episode a second time since 2010 apart from the odd one like The Lodger and Let's Kill Hitler, which are just hilarious. Season 9 just didn't do it for me. It really needed a new companion.
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“I suspect Chibnall will dial right back on the fantasy, fairy-tale and myth elements. What he might bring to the table instead is another question. Both RTD and Moffat for better or worse managed to give their era's a strongly defined sense of identity, right from their entire take on the show through to the characters and the writing and even the visuals- it takes only a fraction of a second to tell if you are watching an episode by one or the other. They each brought something distinct and brand new to the history of the show while respecting the past. I think this is ultimately the job and aim of any good show-runner. I just wonder what Chibnall is going to bring to the show that we havent seen before? Answers on a postcard! (Actually probably best just type them here,,,postcards take ages).”
“I suspect Chibnall will dial right back on the fantasy, fairy-tale and myth elements. What he might bring to the table instead is another question. Both RTD and Moffat for better or worse managed to give their era's a strongly defined sense of identity, right from their entire take on the show through to the characters and the writing and even the visuals- it takes only a fraction of a second to tell if you are watching an episode by one or the other. They each brought something distinct and brand new to the history of the show while respecting the past. I think this is ultimately the job and aim of any good show-runner. I just wonder what Chibnall is going to bring to the show that we havent seen before? Answers on a postcard! (Actually probably best just type them here,,,postcards take ages).”
I'd be surprised if Chibnall carried on from the fantasy route but also disappointed as I want to see him imbue his own style (contrary to most people who think the show should be exactly the same as it was ten years ago). He has very big shoes to step into following on from two extremely successful but distinct showrunners.
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“Nothing about the Ashidlr story or arc is remotely analogous with this. It was carefully explained, seeded and plotted across 4/5 episodes. You might not like it but it wasn't a lazy quick fix or rabbit pulled from a hat. 'Then the Tardis towed the entire planet back to where it came from '- now that sounds much more like your example.
(I'm joking. Theres no need to explain to me again how RTD was a genius who truly connected with Ol' Joe & Josephine Public in a way Moffat doesn't.)
Also your reasoning that this is why '2 million viewers' (funny, that number keeps crawling upwards every time someone wants a stick to beat Moffat with) switched off is so shaky to call it spurious would be generous. It's the old Magic Bear Repelling Rock scenario that so many on here often fall into using to prove their points. No evidence to suggest this is the case. In fact there is more evidence to the contrary. Such as why didnt these same people switch off when Rory sat under stonehenge for all that time and then just brushed it off like his bus had been late? Because its Doctor Who. Thats why.”
“Nothing about the Ashidlr story or arc is remotely analogous with this. It was carefully explained, seeded and plotted across 4/5 episodes. You might not like it but it wasn't a lazy quick fix or rabbit pulled from a hat. 'Then the Tardis towed the entire planet back to where it came from '- now that sounds much more like your example.
(I'm joking. Theres no need to explain to me again how RTD was a genius who truly connected with Ol' Joe & Josephine Public in a way Moffat doesn't.)
Also your reasoning that this is why '2 million viewers' (funny, that number keeps crawling upwards every time someone wants a stick to beat Moffat with) switched off is so shaky to call it spurious would be generous. It's the old Magic Bear Repelling Rock scenario that so many on here often fall into using to prove their points. No evidence to suggest this is the case. In fact there is more evidence to the contrary. Such as why didnt these same people switch off when Rory sat under stonehenge for all that time and then just brushed it off like his bus had been late? Because its Doctor Who. Thats why.”
There was no need to bring up RTD, I had never mentioned him or his era of Doctor Who when talking about Moffat who, RTD era wasn't in mind and I was looking at Moffat era as it own thing, and how I would judge it. The fact you have to throw in oh you're a RTD lover and Moffat hater seems a little over-sensitive over-reacting and a cheap attempt to discredit a point, what I say has nothing to do with RTD's time (which also had problems, like said Earth pulling, though I will say RTD problems never broke and cheapened the shows wall like Moffats does).. Do we have to devolve every thread into a Moffat vs RTD, we can talk about one without relating to the other y'know.
The 2 million was a rough estimate, hence the whatever it is in my post. I don't know the actual figure off the top of my head but I believe it roughly around that. Regarding the ratings in his first series until now, of course they won't drastically drop at first as people give more than once chance and its the gradual understanding that Moffats who is without consequence which will slowly put the audience off as they become disconnected.
Also I don't think any of the arcs were carefully explained, at all, one of the big problems with S9 was the shoddy murky and frankly dull arcs IMO... would anyone like to spell out how the confessional dial was carefully thought-out and explained, the device was a rabbit out of the hat that we have never seen before, as was the sudden ease to make someone immortal, as was the fact Galifrey was saved and is fine, there's so many rabbits pulled out of the hat in Moffats writing that its funny you bring that up saying its something he doesn't do... its exactly what his writing does, hence panto.
Originally Posted by stocklen:
“There are a lot of decent, and valid opinions on here.
As much as I found the idea of Ashildr's longevity ridiculous, I had forgotten the plethora of other such ideas that we have seen in the past.
The glowy-light-dobby-doctor being restored through the power of prayer was particularly silly granted.
Science fiction is good. Science fantasy is good. I think there is room in Doctor Who for both. Not everything needs a plausible science explanation and throwaway lines such as 'reverse the polarity of the neutron flow' are joyfully cheesy and unexplainable - you just know he's done something 'clever'.
However, just once in a while, if you make the mistake of engaging your brain just a little too much you do tend to overthink something that is not designed to be overthought
As was the case of Ashilda, id have been bored beyond belief for the last few million years hanging onto a rock in the middle of decaying nothingness.”
“There are a lot of decent, and valid opinions on here.
As much as I found the idea of Ashildr's longevity ridiculous, I had forgotten the plethora of other such ideas that we have seen in the past.
The glowy-light-dobby-doctor being restored through the power of prayer was particularly silly granted.
Science fiction is good. Science fantasy is good. I think there is room in Doctor Who for both. Not everything needs a plausible science explanation and throwaway lines such as 'reverse the polarity of the neutron flow' are joyfully cheesy and unexplainable - you just know he's done something 'clever'.
However, just once in a while, if you make the mistake of engaging your brain just a little too much you do tend to overthink something that is not designed to be overthought
As was the case of Ashilda, id have been bored beyond belief for the last few million years hanging onto a rock in the middle of decaying nothingness.”
BIB: Not that I care for that particular "if we all wish really, really hard it'll happen" resolution myself, but to be fair, there was a sort of explanation: The same energy field broadcast from the satellites that allowed the Master to influence the people of Earth was able to collect and feedback the emotional support from all the people of Earth.
Originally Posted by GDK:
“BIB: Not that I care for that particular "if we all wish really, really hard it'll happen" resolution myself, but to be fair, there was a sort of explanation: The same energy field broadcast from the satellites that allowed the Master to influence the people of Earth was able to collect and feedback the emotional support from all the people of Earth.”
“BIB: Not that I care for that particular "if we all wish really, really hard it'll happen" resolution myself, but to be fair, there was a sort of explanation: The same energy field broadcast from the satellites that allowed the Master to influence the people of Earth was able to collect and feedback the emotional support from all the people of Earth.”
Why would that conveniently reverse his age though? Wouldn't the Doctor just be overloaded with the emotions of billions of human beings?
I was also never convinced that every single person in the world would have went along and prayed to the Doctor at the exact same time. Surely a big chunk of people would have thought "that's just ridiculous, I'm not praying to some imaginary superhero"?
If I remember correctly they also made a bit of an error with the time zones with that scene.
Then there was the part where everything that had happened in that episode was literally undone by the press of a metaphorical button, but all the main characters conveniently remembered it for being in the "eye of the storm"
I'm not entirely convinced that scientific logic has always been Doctor Who's strong point. :P
Originally Posted by GDK:
“Quite. I never said it was a good explanation!
”
“Quite. I never said it was a good explanation!
Spoiler
Everyone: Why doesn't this make any real sense?
Doctor Who: Because sod you all, that's why.
SM/RTD: It does so make sense. Properly. It makes sense properly because I wrote it! I'm the writer and what I say, goes!
Originally Posted by GDK:
“SM/RTD: It does so make sense. Properly. It makes sense properly because I wrote it! I'm the writer and what I say, goes!
”
“SM/RTD: It does so make sense. Properly. It makes sense properly because I wrote it! I'm the writer and what I say, goes!
”
Mark Gatiss: "It's right there, in print! Look: "The Doctor explains the camera footage they've been seeing on all the screens is a projection of what the sleep dust on the walls can see""
Brian Minchin: "Don't you dare send that to Moffat..."
Mark Gatiss: *drops it into Moffat's busy box* "Oops"
Although I don't want this thread to be a Moffatt bashing one - One of my original questions was to do with the handling of the return of Gallifrey.
Talking about grand arcs that are never fully realised, or explained, or satisfactorily resolved....
I must admit to feeling a little short-changed with the return of Gallifrey. After the build up of the 50th... and then the new regeneration cycle granted in the Time of the Doctor - And then the return of Missy and the hint she knew where to find Gallifrey - and the Doctors anger at not finding it in Death In Heaven....
I was at least expecting his return to be a real event - but instead the whole thing feels like it should be set some time after he rediscovered it and the timelords started to meddle in his life (locking him in the confession dial etc).
The storyline for the end of series 9 seems to have made the whole of the previous series build up fizzle into nothing.
Although the idea of Heaven Sent and Hell Bent are a story that Steven Moffatt wanted to write - I wonder whether if he thought that series 9 was to be his last that he'd rather skip the grand return and rediscovery story. Trouble is, that ship has now sailed and we wont get that story now. Gallifrey is back, and its business as usual.
That being said, it will be interesting to see the consequences of the fact that Gallifrey is back - more time lords to bump into. Other TARDISes to encounter. Im sure Missy will end up with her own TARDIS again now that even the sisterhood of Karn can pop over to Gallifrey any time they like!
Talking about grand arcs that are never fully realised, or explained, or satisfactorily resolved....
I must admit to feeling a little short-changed with the return of Gallifrey. After the build up of the 50th... and then the new regeneration cycle granted in the Time of the Doctor - And then the return of Missy and the hint she knew where to find Gallifrey - and the Doctors anger at not finding it in Death In Heaven....
I was at least expecting his return to be a real event - but instead the whole thing feels like it should be set some time after he rediscovered it and the timelords started to meddle in his life (locking him in the confession dial etc).
The storyline for the end of series 9 seems to have made the whole of the previous series build up fizzle into nothing.
Although the idea of Heaven Sent and Hell Bent are a story that Steven Moffatt wanted to write - I wonder whether if he thought that series 9 was to be his last that he'd rather skip the grand return and rediscovery story. Trouble is, that ship has now sailed and we wont get that story now. Gallifrey is back, and its business as usual.
That being said, it will be interesting to see the consequences of the fact that Gallifrey is back - more time lords to bump into. Other TARDISes to encounter. Im sure Missy will end up with her own TARDIS again now that even the sisterhood of Karn can pop over to Gallifrey any time they like!
Originally Posted by stocklen:
“As much as I found the idea of Ashildr's longevity ridiculous, I had forgotten the plethora of other such ideas that we have seen in the past.
.”
“As much as I found the idea of Ashildr's longevity ridiculous, I had forgotten the plethora of other such ideas that we have seen in the past.
.”
Immortality - Jack Harkness became immortal (or at least aged really really slowly) by being revived by Rose who had "looked into the heart of the Tardis". Capt Jack also had the ability to resurrect himself on death - something that Ashildr couldn't do, I think.
Jack was killed at least 3 times in Doctor Who (ends of Series 1,3 and 4)
Originally Posted by stocklen:
“As was the case of Ashilda, id have been bored beyond belief for the last few million years hanging onto a rock in the middle of decaying nothingness.”
“As was the case of Ashilda, id have been bored beyond belief for the last few million years hanging onto a rock in the middle of decaying nothingness.”
It was made quite clear in the Highway man episode (forgotten its name, sorry) that her capacity to remember things was finite. She kept diaries which allowed her to refresh her memory of things that had happened to her. Selective forgetting might be a way of aleviating the boredom.
I presume me/as Hilda did a very big shop before most places turned to dust. Anyway looking forward to the dvd release with some commentaries and documentarys which always shed extra light on things. Should be getting 3 weeks today as BBC shop always seem to deliver on Saturday.
Originally Posted by prof_travers:
“It was made quite clear in the Highway man episode (forgotten its name, sorry) that her capacity to remember things was finite. She kept diaries which allowed her to refresh her memory of things that had happened to her. Selective forgetting might be a way of aleviating the boredom.”
“It was made quite clear in the Highway man episode (forgotten its name, sorry) that her capacity to remember things was finite. She kept diaries which allowed her to refresh her memory of things that had happened to her. Selective forgetting might be a way of aleviating the boredom.”
er, yes it was indeed 'quite clear' - however - the point i made is that even if she would, at the very least, retain about the last 100 years or so memories - she would have to endure millions of 'lifetimes' alone - all she would 'forget' is how bored and lonely she was feeling over 100 years ago - which presumably would be somewhat less bored and lonely as she felt fight now!
She would have been totally and utterly insane by the time the doctor arrived! All I'm wondering is what she did with herself on the last few millions of years being the only surviving organism in the universe alone.
Originally Posted by stocklen:
“er, yes it was indeed 'quite clear' - however - the point i made is that even if she would, at the very least, retain about the last 100 years or so memories - she would have to endure millions of 'lifetimes' alone - all she would 'forget' is how bored and lonely she was feeling over 100 years ago - which presumably would be somewhat less bored and lonely as she felt fight now!
She would have been totally and utterly insane by the time the doctor arrived! All I'm wondering is what she did with herself on the last few millions of years being the only surviving organism in the universe alone.”
“er, yes it was indeed 'quite clear' - however - the point i made is that even if she would, at the very least, retain about the last 100 years or so memories - she would have to endure millions of 'lifetimes' alone - all she would 'forget' is how bored and lonely she was feeling over 100 years ago - which presumably would be somewhat less bored and lonely as she felt fight now!
She would have been totally and utterly insane by the time the doctor arrived! All I'm wondering is what she did with herself on the last few millions of years being the only surviving organism in the universe alone.”
And her personality didn't change for 100 trillion years either.
Why wasn't as hilda sharing the rock with jack? I don't do the face of boe theory, I always took that was an in joke.
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