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Glasgow local MUX SFN Trial |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glasgow
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Quote:
Ah, didn't realise that this was a separate "minimux" trial, which appears to be different from the normal Glasgow DAB. Is this correct?
What you receive in Dunoon and Cowal, depending on where you are, is the commercial Bauer Glasgow mux or the Arqiva Ayrshire mux. |
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#52 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Quote:
Ah, didn't realise that this was a separate "minimux" trial, which appears to be different from the normal Glasgow DAB. Is this correct?
If your location is where Streetmap pinpoints it in the Argyll interior, you'll be doing well to get the Bauer local mux. A CRC coverage prediction shows that there's some outdoor coverage on the hills above Dunoon from the minimux trial but nothing further west near your location at usable signal strengths. Due to the topo, that's unlikely to change if/when the second site makes it on air. |
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#53 |
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Join Date: May 2007
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Thanks for your responses on this. Clarified the issue for me, and no Caroline via DAB. I can receive loads of DAB stations, including some Ayrshire ones. Some stations do cut out sometimes, which is a bit of a pain, so maybe it's back to FM. Surely they will have to improve DAB reception drastically before FM frequencies are turned off? DAB from Roseneath would be a start.
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#54 |
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The Ofcom rule "...trial coverage areas should be no greater than 40% of the area served by any local DAB multiplex serving the same area..." as you correctly point out is open interpretation. Assuming it is land mass coverage, then, yes, the 'Greater Glasgow' area could be covered without any great issue, but the transmitter sites would have to chosen carefully.
For a full-time Small-scale DAB licence for 'Glasgow' I would have thought it would be Glasgow Hilton Hotel (William Street) at 300 Watts ERP and Anniesland Court block perhaps at 500W. But under trial licence conditions, it is just 100W from the Whitlawburn block of flats at Cambuslang which provides rather restricted coverage in parts of Glasgow with a bias towards the east end of Glasgow and into Lanarkshire to include Motherwell. It does sound as if this is as good as it gets. The primary benefit to Pulse and YOUR would have been the coverage off Glennifer which would have naturally complimented and extended their own areas. The East End/ Lanarkshire is way out of those station's patches. It is plainly of no use to GO as a commercial entity. And while we may live in more liberal enlightened times than before, I have to say that the traditional working class areas that transmitter reaches are not as of yet places where you would want your 'Da' to catch you listening to Gaydio! It beg's the question 'what's the point?' While I don't want to over-labour the negativity about it, I will only say the whole thing has turned into a massive disappointment, given the high hopes of 6 months ago. We are where we are so if just the one TX then a more suitable location should be found which, given the above participants, should be city centre or West End, i.e The Grafton Tower, the Anniesland Tower or even the Sunny Govan site in Mosspark. |
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#55 |
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Aren't the minimux trials much more about investigating whether groups can successfully herd the cats onto multiplexes than about the technical aspects? Plus or minus the SFN and OFR deployments, the tech had already been established to Ofcom's satisfaction otherwise they wouldn't have allowed trials to go ahead. I see it much more as an exercise in the politics of combining services; if anything's on the air at all from the Glasgow trial then it's been at least a partial success.
Doing an SFN with a large budget and a satellite feed is easy; doing an SFN on a shoestring via terrestrial transmission is not, as the Glasgow trial has brought to light. Especially if any part of the arrangement involves indifferent and unsympathetic landlords like Arqiva and Wireless Infrastructure. If we're playing 'building bingo' for appropriate rooftop sites, my money would be on the Glasgow Uni library building up on Gilmorehill; there must be plenty of sympathetic students to knock on the Facilities Manager's door. |
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#56 |
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Quote:
Aren't the minimux trials much more about investigating whether groups can successfully herd the cats onto multiplexes than about the technical aspects? Plus or minus the SFN and OFR deployments, the tech had already been established to Ofcom's satisfaction otherwise they wouldn't have allowed trials to go ahead. I see it much more as an exercise in the politics of combining services; if anything's on the air at all from the Glasgow trial then it's been at least a partial success.
Doing an SFN with a large budget and a satellite feed is easy; doing an SFN on a shoestring via terrestrial transmission is not, as the Glasgow trial has brought to light. Especially if any part of the arrangement involves indifferent and unsympathetic landlords like Arqiva and Wireless Infrastructure. If we're playing 'building bingo' for appropriate rooftop sites, my money would be on the Glasgow Uni library building up on Gilmorehill; there must be plenty of sympathetic students to knock on the Facilities Manager's door. The moral of the story will be that there is no point in promising the moon and the stars unless you have deals re the transmission etc set in stone. |
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#57 |
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That's fair comment. The ups and downs of this Glasgow trial are just providing valuable feedback to OFCOM and the wider industry on a 'here's what happened in practice' basis. The moral of the story will be that there is no point in promising the moon and the stars unless you have deals re the transmission etc set in stone.
It is generally accepted that the plans from the winning applicant were over ambitious by using two commercial transmission towers on hill-tops. Maybe Ofcom were keen on the idea to see if the applicant could pull it off which would be another learning experience for all concerned. In the end, neither transmission tower as planned was used. The 'Cathkin' site is on the roof top at a block of residential flats at Whitlawburn, Cambuslang, which due to its position and angle, results in poor reception or no reception in many parts of the southside of Glasgow including East Renfrewshire areas of Clarkston, Williamwood, Giffnock, Pollok etc. The Gleniffer Braes transmitter was at least switched on for three days and it did seem to work well, then it was switched off. The other applicant for the Glasgow trial was from Awaz FM and they planned a single site from the city centre using an existing FM transmission site. This seems to have been the successful model used in Manchester, Norwich and in other areas. These trials were a mix of engineering to find out if it actually worked in practice with multiple programme services/radio stations and not just Ofcom staffer trial of seagulls and waves as in Brighton. It would not be a trial without a few mishaps along the way, which probably Ofcom are grateful for as they will probably learn more from the Glasgow experience than from a trial area which was perfect from day one, but then again, they can learn from that best practice as well. |
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#58 |
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The moral of the story will be that there is no point in promising the moon and the stars unless you have deals re the transmission etc set in stone.
This was never a technical trial. There were always implications for licensing and commercial viability - for multiplex operators and their service providers. As a platform for resuscitating digital radio, small scale DAB will either be a runaway success or an abject failure - there is no middle ground. |
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#59 |
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Pulse gone from the minimux? There's a station 'Timeless', but no audio
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#60 |
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Pulse gone from the minimux? There's a station 'Timeless', but no audio
Another service, which I can't get any audio for, appears to have started. Blast 106, which seems to be a community station in Belfast (!) is showing on my station list. 'Your' continues to come through clearly while 'Go' sounds awful. |
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#61 |
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Pulse gone from the minimux? There's a station 'Timeless', but no audio
Timeless seems to have replaced Pulse. The Timeless lable indicates a Pop Music service and it is being transmitted at 80 kbts mono. With a name like Timeless, it does suggest 'timeless' music/classic hits. |
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#62 |
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Yeah, scanning last night as i came through Parkhead area, i see the Timeless station and also Blast 106 as mentioned before. Is the latter replacing Asian Fx which had ( ? ) on my dab as did Pulse. I also see Sunrise there on SDL and Glasgow Local , seperate stations.
So from what i can see, we now have a line up of BLAST 106 CELTIC MUSIC RADIO GAYDIO GO RADIO GLASGOW LIKE RADIO RADIO CAROLINE RADIO SALTIRE SUNRISE RADIO TIMELESS YOUR RADIO |
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#63 |
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Don't see "Blast 106" on the Glasgow Trial mux or on any mux for that matter.
Blast 106 is Belfast's Most Music Station! Broadcasts 106.4 FM across Belfast city area and is an Ofcom licensed community radio station aimed at the Belfast student population and young people under 25. |
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#64 |
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Don't see "Blast 106" on the Glasgow Trial mux or on any mux for that matter.
Blast 106 is Belfast's Most Music Station! Broadcasts 106.4 FM across Belfast city area and is an Ofcom licensed community radio station aimed at the Belfast student population and young people under 25. |
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#65 |
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It seems to me that the information "output" from these local DAB trials thus far is that they are of muted interest to existing small scale broadcasters within the areas served, but in fact are more of interest to out of area-casters who can then create mini-networked DAB services on the cheap by the back door.
If OFCOM's 'vision' for this is within-the-area small ILR and community FMers, hospital, and netcasters all signing up to these things then I suggest they abandon this project as (and I have to be careful what I say here by dint of being back at Pulse 98.4) the local politics and expectation management can be a problem. If, however, OFCOM are happy for the likes of Like, Caroline, Gaydio, and various 'startup' services proliferating these networks and it then becomes a lower level of national DAB then by all means proceed with it, and it gives a space for guys like Spencer Pryor and John Evington to bring new services to market. |
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#66 |
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It seems to me that the information "output" from these local DAB trials thus far is that they are of muted interest to existing small scale broadcasters within the areas served, but in fact are more of interest to out of area-casters who can then create mini-networked DAB services on the cheap by the back door..
In addition, it's a limited-duration technical trial. I wouldn't set up a radio station when I knew it may be taken off-air in a year or two. The current set-up is not representative of a permanent service. OFCOM has set this whole thing up to discover what the technical issues are around using low-cost equipment to deliver a service in different geographic terrains. They aren't expressly testing the types of service that might run on it. |
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#67 |
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Don't see "Blast 106" on the Glasgow Trial mux or on any mux for that matter.
Blast 106 is Belfast's Most Music Station! Broadcasts 106.4 FM across Belfast city area and is an Ofcom licensed community radio station aimed at the Belfast student population and young people under 25. well showing on my pure highway and listed as glasgow local but like Timeless is silent at mo. maybe do a rescan? |
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#68 |
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Sounds very similar (name) to Beat 106..
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#69 |
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...OFCOM has set this whole thing up to discover what the technical issues are around using low-cost equipment to deliver a service in different geographic terrains. They aren't expressly testing the types of service that might run on it.
Proving the kit worked had been done before, so the tangible prize from the small-scale saga is the knowledge of how to build and run an SFN on a shoestring. Ofcom only needed one group to succeed at that (and only one has), after which point they could just cut and paste that know-how over however many small-scale TXs are required to service a region, say Cumbria/central Wales/the Highlands and Islands. |
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#70 |
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Timeless Radio testing
Timeless Radio has now got audio on their label on the Trial Glasgow DAB mux. It is being announced as "test transmission for Timeless Radio" which is being transmitted at 128 kbts Joint stereo.
Frank Sinatra, Mama Cass, Herp Albert and alike are being played: "Easy listening memories for all to enjoy". www.timelessradio.uk |
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#71 |
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The outcome is almost certainly a mixture of the two - allowing a small number of local broadcasters to get access to DAB and part funding the multiplex by having other broadcasters on there. I doubt anyone would expect a dozen local services.
There are certain incremental benefits to FM community stations being on local DAB which covers their own and/or a larger area, one of which I'd say from observation is motivation amongst the troops, and also money-generating sponsorship opportunites...i.e the cost of being on these things is low so if a local business is prepared to stump up the cost and maybe some more then all good. But looked at in the round it seems to me that small scale local DAB is more a vehicle for genre-specific services who can then occupy many local MUXs. I can easily imagine a scenario, for example, where Celtic Music Radio, might be on local DAB across Scotland in it's major cities. You may also have supply and demand realities where holders of these local DAB MUX licences....once there are permanant licences granted and many more of them..........are able to monetise it by selling slots to 'startup' genre stations and charge decent sums. Would there be anything to prevent local DAB licence holders merging into single companies just as ILRs have done? I can certainly see possible business synergy between Spencer Pryor in Glasgow and John Evington in Manchester with this, for example. Why have two companies haggling over access costs in Glasgow and Manchester when you could instead have the one company selling the slots across the two? Or are the rules akin to community radio where they have to remain solus? I am wondering what this is intended to be. A local access type thing, a free market free-for all, or some kind of mixture of the two, and do OFCOM have any vision re it or is it just suck-it-and-see? As for 'Timeless Radio'.......I am wondering who that voice is at the start of the stream on the site Craig Kelly linked to on the post above. It sounds like it might be Mike McLean off YOUR Radio but I'm not 100% sure. Could this be a new Spencer service? I shall resist the temptation to say something catty and say instead that I like the idea of the station a lot. It's a great unserved niche. |
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#72 |
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As for 'Timeless Radio'.......I am wondering who that voice is at the start of the stream on the site Craig Kelly linked to on the post above. It sounds like it might be Mike McLean off YOUR Radio but I'm not 100% sure.
Could this be a new Spencer service? I shall resist the temptation to say something catty and say instead that I like the idea of the station a lot. It's a great unserved niche. Timesless Radio is certainly a gap in the market and aimed mostly at the age group who just can fondly remember 'Hallmark of Quality - Britain Radio' and 'sweet music' Radio 390 from the mid 1960s. Found 'Blast' on the Trail Glasgow mux, silent carrier at 32 kbts stereo. This would suggest being a DAB+ service at 32 kbts stereo. Indoor reception not so good the last few days with drops in signal and going off-air for periods. And BL, it would appear to be another Spencer service as you suggest. He is most likely using his Brave Broadcasting Ltd., company which also owns Your Radio and is the Trial Glasgow DAB licencee. It may be the first programme service from the new Brave Broadcasting House in Dumbarton. |
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#73 |
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Found 'Blast' on the Trail Glasgow mux, silent carrier at 32 kbts stereo. This would suggest being a DAB+ service at 32 kbts stereo.
Indoor reception not so good the last few days with drops in signal and going off-air for periods. Hopefully the opensource SFN software is finally synching and sorting out coverage as in London |
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#74 |
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And BL, it would appear to be another Spencer service as you suggest. He is most likely using his Brave Broadcasting Ltd., company which also owns Your Radio and is the Trial Glasgow DAB licencee. It may be the first programme service from the new Brave Broadcasting House in Dumbarton. Brave Broadcasting House'? Is that 'brave" in the 'Yes Minister' sense of the word? |
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#75 |
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i see Timeless has gave way at moment for YOUR XMAS RADIO until January
Any word on whats happening with Go Radio ??? |
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