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What ARE Daleks exactly ? |
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#1 |
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What ARE Daleks exactly ?
I am a casual fan of the old era, not really seen the new ones in any depth. On re-watching some of the old series I wondered, what exactly are the Daleks ? I always used to think they were living creatures, the Kaled, who were disfigured in the nuclear war with the Thals. But I thought then that Davros made the Daleks ? Does he plonk a mutated Kaled inside each machine ? As they seem to be made by some kind of device where they just appear ready built to go.
If a living Kaled is used, then how can they be called machines ? Also are there really that many still alive who were effected by the radiation to use in the machines ? Could Davros not make true robots without mutated men inside ? I know it is just a family drama, but I am confused by what exactly they are meant to be. |
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#2 |
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The Kaleds were mutating, so Davros was basically trying to find there final form. The outside of the Dalek is for travel and to defend themselves essentially, but Daleks aren't robots.
But Davros wanted power, and to do that he inhibited emotions (most anyway) as he thought it was best. That is what all the arguing between the Kaleds was in Genesis, that they didn't like how Davros changed the research into something "immoral, evil" But to state again, not robots |
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#3 |
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But are there Kaleds still breeding mutants to drop into the new machines?
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#4 |
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Quote:
But are there Kaleds still breeding mutants to drop into the new machines?
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#5 |
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When I saw this thread I thought...
Hang on, it's going to be a long year...
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#6 |
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Join Date: Sep 2013
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Quote:
I am a casual fan of the old era, not really seen the new ones in any depth. On re-watching some of the old series I wondered, what exactly are the Daleks ? I always used to think they were living creatures, the Kaled, who were disfigured in the nuclear war with the Thals. But I thought then that Davros made the Daleks ? Does he plonk a mutated Kaled inside each machine ? As they seem to be made by some kind of device where they just appear ready built to go.
If a living Kaled is used, then how can they be called machines ? Also are there really that many still alive who were effected by the radiation to use in the machines ? Could Davros not make true robots without mutated men inside ? I know it is just a family drama, but I am confused by what exactly they are meant to be. |
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#7 |
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Quote:
When I saw this thread I thought...
Hang on, it's going to be a long year... ![]() |
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#8 |
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As Sam_Gee1 said, Davros was experimenting to see the end result of the war, and how the Kaleds could survive. In doing so, he created the Dalek shells as a life-support machine. Of course, because he's a megalomaniac mad scientist, he became obsessed with how good his work was, and how perfect his creations were, and how he could take them further and make them into the ultimate lifeform. Which, of course, they now believe they are.
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#9 |
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Think of a person on a mobility scooter - is that combination a person or a machine?
A Dalek is a genetically engineered test tube Kaled mutant housed within a MKIII Travel Machine™. |
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#10 |
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#11 |
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Quote:
But are there Kaleds still breeding mutants to drop into the new machines?
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#12 |
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Daleks certainly aren't robots but are Daleks cyborgs?
That's something that I have pondered before (during boring episodes, naturally). I decided it comes down to whether or not the living organism can survive without the mechanical and electronic components. If it can (and by survive, i mean not just 'not die instantly' but actually function, protect itself, find food etc) then the outer shell is simply a suit or a vehicle. But if it is a vital part of its functioning then we must classify it as a cyborg: 'a being with both organic and biomechatronic parts'. Their general treatment tends to suggest the latter as they are usually portrayed as pretty useless outside of the mechanical shell. |
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#13 |
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So it looks as if there's some other means of creating more mutants but they've never specified what it is.
Victory of the Daleks had new Daleks (complete with casings) created in minutes from pure Dalek cells stored in the Progenitor Device. They can also be created by converting another species as seen in Revelation of the Daleks and Asylum of the Daleks. |
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#14 |
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Thanks all for the answers, very detailed stuff. So in the end I guess the big metal shell is just that, to keep safe the inner being. I also remember the first daleks were made to go across a metal floor like a dodgem, but they seemed to get out of that necessity.
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#15 |
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Taking into account everything that happened in Genesis of the Daleks, it does seem as though:
(a) all the Kaleds (bar Davros and his bunker scientists) are killed when the Thals destroy the Kaled city (b) The Daleks kill all the remaining Kaleds in Davros's bunker (c) After the Dalek massacre at the Thal city, some Thals and Mutos are left alive So all the 'Kaled mutants' used for that first generation of Daleks were created by Davros and so were not actually mutated Kaleds. Infact, by the end of this story there didn't appear to be any Kaleds left to mutate. But the Thals were the same species as the Kaleds weren't they? At the very most they may have been a different race. And there were some Thals left. |
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#16 |
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Quote:
Their general treatment tends to suggest the latter as they are usually portrayed as pretty useless outside of the mechanical shell.
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#17 |
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i'd love to see some khlads and thals but the new series won't have humanoids who didnt originate from earth will they?
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#18 |
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Quote:
i'd love to see some khlads and thals but the new series won't have humanoids who didnt originate from earth will they?
Also, we did see some Kaleds in The Magician's Apprentice. |
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#19 |
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Quote:
i'd love to see some khlads and thals but the new series won't have humanoids who didnt originate from earth will they?
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#20 |
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Personally, I'd love a story that looked at what happened to the Thals. The Kaleds all died (ironically, the Daleks exterminated the last of them) but there were Thals and Mutos left alive at the end of Genesis. It would be interesting to see what happened to them and whether they eventually developed the technology to flee Skaro.
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#21 |
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In Planet of the Daleks,, the Thals had the capacity to send at least two spaceships to the planet Spiridon. I think the dialogue tells us more about what happened to them after the events of the first Dalek story, but it's been a long time since I watched PotD, and I can't remember the details. I don't think we know what happened to the Mutos.
Quote:
TARON: A planet, many systems from here. TranscriptDOCTOR: Skaro! Yes, of course, you're Thals! TARON: How did you know that? DOCTOR: Because I've been to Skaro, that's why. TARON: When? DOCTOR: Oh, many years ago. During the Dalek war. VABER: Dalek war? DOCTOR: Yes. VABER: That's impossible. That was generations ago. You couldn't have been there. DOCTOR: Well, I can assure you that I was. TARON: How? DOCTOR: By travelling through the barriers of time. If you must know, I was with the Thal group when they broke into the Dalek city. TARON: In our legend, there is a being, a figure from another planet who came to Skaro when the Thals were in their greatest peril, in something called a Tardis. He had three companions with him. DOCTOR: Yes. Barbara, Ian and Susan. VABER: And their leader was called? DOCTOR: The Doctor. TARON: Are you trying to tell us that you are the Doctor? DOCTOR: That's right. I don't think it was ever explained on the tv show why the Daleks left Skaro in the hands of the Thal's. What happens to the Thal's after Planet of the Daleks is never mentioned The Doctor does say near the end of the episode Quote:
DOCTOR: Throughout history, you Thals have always been known as one of the most peace loving peoples in the galaxy. All we know is the Daleks reoccupy Skaro at some point so presumably the peace loving Thal's are wiped out then.
TARON: I hope we always will be. DOCTOR: Yes, well that's what I mean |
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#22 |
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Quote:
I know it is just a family drama, but I am confused by what exactly they are meant to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWn_1yOFpfU If you love both the radio series and the TV series of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, then you will like this even more! This will help also: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20140310025220 |
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#23 |
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Quote:
Thanks all for the answers, very detailed stuff. So in the end I guess the big metal shell is just that, to keep safe the inner being. I also remember the first daleks were made to go across a metal floor like a dodgem, but they seemed to get out of that necessity.
1) There were only a few, they were evidently fearful of the Thals and dependent on a massive dose of radiation to survive. They were not in any way the intergalactic superthreat they became in subsequent stories. So we must presumably be seeing the Daleks right at the very end of their existence, maybe the last few Daleks after many years of decline in their empire and power. 2) We can understand how the Doctor and co were ignorant of the Daleks as the series roughly follows the Doctor's life in chronological order, dipping into and out of it. So the Daleks must know who the Doctor is, right? Well, in our very first adventure with the Daleks, which I surmise is right at the end of their existence, wrong, they are totally ignorant of the Doctor. In subsequent adventures, presumably taking place before the events of The Daleks, they quickly surmise who the Doctor is. Maybe the events of The Daleks are so far into the future that the Daleks have forgotten who the Doctor was completely and he has disappeared from their records as a result? The dialogue quoted above from PotD is easily explained though - both the Daleks and Thals can time travel. |
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#24 |
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We can understand how the Doctor and co were ignorant of the Daleks as the series roughly follows the Doctor's life in chronological order, dipping into and out of it. So the Daleks must know who the Doctor is, right?
It all changes at Genesis of the Daleks. |
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#25 |
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It seems that the second web link I posted doesn’t show the picture big. It shrinks the picture small in the corner. How VERY annoying!
![]() Well, anyway, here is the link to another: http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg...q13o1_1280.jpg I hope you can see the picture better this time! ![]() If you really want to know what a Dalek is, plus have the history of them from 1963/4 up to Series 5 in 2010, then this is good to get: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Dalek_Handbook I've got this, and it's one of my favourite DW books, ever!
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