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House training nightmare. What am I doing wrong?
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Gnomsie
20-02-2016
I need a bit of advice house training my puppy.

We've had her a week now, and she is still piddling wherever she fancies during the day. She's fantastic at night time when I'm in bed. Uses puppy pads at the back door, no mess on the floor at all. As soon as I'm around, she goes where she stands.

If I catch her in the act, I say a firm no and take her outside. I stand outside for 15 minutes to half an hour with her, give her treats and positive reinforcement of she does go to the toilet outside. More often than not, she'll go on the kitchen floor as soon as we come back in (to which I say another firm no and repeat the process).

I leave puppy pads out constantly, at the back door, but she only uses these at night and ignores them during the day. I clean with kitchen spray then an enzymatic odour remover after each indoor accident. I don't punish her for mistakes, only ever a firm no when caught in the act. She seems to know that indoor peeing is wrong, she'll run to the back door when I catch her. When she goes outside she expects a treat straight after.

She doesn't give any signs that she needs a pee. She'll just suddenly stop doing whatever it is she was doing, per, then carry on. We put a bell on the back door she can ring when she wants to go out, and she does ring it to go out, then doesn't do anything.

We go out after every meal, every play time, every nap. She's out for at least 15 minutes every hour with me.

If she wasn't so good at night I'd think she was just not ready. But since she is, there must be something I'm doing wrong during the day. What can I change to help her? She's a lovely 9 week old Newfoundland, eager to please and learn for the most part. We've already mastered meal time manners (both hers and ours), she knows what no means, and lies down on cue. And all learnt whilst not really 'training', just things she's picked up.
I'm just really failing her with the toilet training.
jaycee331
20-02-2016
It sounds to me like you are doing just about everything right.

I would suggest that you need more patience and give her more time. Dogs only learn what we expect of them through a lot of repetition. A single week is hardly any time at all. And her young little brain is still very immature in respect of learning processes. Nor will she physically have much bladder control to always get herself to where you want her to go, even if she does understand it already.

If she only has accidents in your company you could also be seeing excitement/submissive urination. She's either real happy to see you and be around you, or scared of you, but we'll assume the former

I did everything right but it still took about 2 months for my lab puppy to become completely reliable in her toilet training. She also suffered from submissive urination. Every time a visitor came to the house she would pee right in front of them. Thankfully she grew out of that after about 4 weeks, most do.
Gnomsie
20-02-2016
Thank you! I'll give her more time. I was just worried I was the one failing her, since she's grasped night time training so well.

I hope it's the former! She seems more attached to me than anyone else in the house. She follows me everywhere. I wonder if it's a case of just not wanting to be away from me? It does mean I get to catch her whilst she's doing it and say no though.

She's just showing no signs of needing a pee, or making any effort to go anywhere to pee. Just there and then, sometimes without even crouching.
Karis
20-02-2016
You're doing it all great. Keep it up.

For what it's worth, Harley did his last pee in the house at 12 months!!! Yes, you heard me. His brother took to it immediately but I could not stop Harley doing it.

Lots of patience and you'll be fine
skinj
20-02-2016
My mums got a 5-6 month old Collie. He's really intelligent but still has the odd accident. They can say wee-wee to him and he'll follow them to the garden & even squeeze out a drop or two if he doesn't really need to go, but if I happen to arrive at the door at the wrong moment he might bomb up to me and have a little accident.
This said, my 6yr old Labradoodle (semi-rescue dog) still occasionally has an accident when I go to my mum's as she just goes loopy for my mum. We always let my mum say hello outside before going in. It's got better in the last year as I've spent more time there, but still don't risk it.
A month ago the two dogs had been playing together for about 90 minutes while I popped out, the pup had been out a couple of times but mine hadn't. She's a bit choosy where she'll pee/poo and will only go on grass unless she's absolutely desperate & doesn't give notice if she is. Anyway I arrived back to the house and we suddenly panic about the pup having a dribble on the floor when mine, in the middle of the front room, squatted and had the biggest pee I've seen in ages. She must have been having loads of fun with the pup, made no effort to alert my my at all and then got too excited when me and my step dad came through the front door and just gave way. Hasn't done it since or before but we just chuckled about it and got the carpet cleaner out. The pup on the other hand didn't need to pee at all!

My mum thought she was getting nowhere with the training for ages then it suddenly seemed to just click. This was well after they'd been doing training classes and agility classes which he is breezing through and being singled out for advanced training for possible acting/show stuff later on. The house training however just took more time.
Stick with it, sound like you're doing the right things.
mrsgrumpy49
20-02-2016
A week is too short a time.
Once had a red setter pup and we thought he was doing really well. Then one day I smelled something funny. We had a door well with a mat in it. Lifted up the mat and the whole thing was full of pee
Wolfsheadish
20-02-2016
All dogs are different in terms of how long it takes but your puppy is only nine weeks - barely old enough to leave her dam! Give her a bit more time and be consistent. Maybe she needs to be taken outside more often? Other than that I'd simply advise patience!
paralax
20-02-2016
Puppies don't start getting control over their bladder till they are at least three months old. So she has no control yet, her vocabulary is small and she has a lot to learn and adjust to. Puppies respond more to praise and rewards, scolding her is likely to stress her and make things worse.

Put her out frequently, and when she obliges make a big fuss telling her she's a good girl, give her a treat and use whatever her command is, mine was good girl, wee wee in the garden.

When she starts to do it in the house, do an excited rush to the garden, even if it is too late. Make it a game, puppies love to play.

She will get the hang of it eventually. It's early days and she just doesn't have the association between the sensation and needing to ask out,.
.
Gnomsie
20-02-2016
Thank you all. You've put my mind at ease, I was convinced it was me doing it wrong, since she's absolutely great at night when I'm not about.

We use the 'wee-wee' prompt, and she gets a big "good girrrrrl" and a treat when she does her business. And she's taken to the bell like a pro. She rings it and then wiggles excitedly by the back door.

She's so big I forget how young she is. I don't mind it taking a while, it's all wooden flooring and tiles, easy enough to clean. I just don't want it to be me that's failing her.
riversmum
21-02-2016
Take her out every hour and immediately when she's eaten and stay with her until she wees. Use whatever trigger word you want to use for it and lots of praise and maybe a tasty treat that she only gets after a wee. If she's still going in the house you can attach a long lead to yourself and every time she squats take her outside. That often works well with dogs who go and hide to wee like behind the sofa. She's such a baby, it will come in time
mossy2103
21-02-2016
And if/when she does wee in the house, you need to clean up very thoroughly as she will tend to go in the place where she went before, using scent.

We use one of those enzyme cleaners that break down any smells.
Hogzilla
22-02-2016
Some dogs take forever, too - even if you're experienced and do everything according to the book! We have always had dogs that were housetrained within a week or two but this last dog (she's now 18 months) was awful. It took her right til she was 7 months before she was reliable. I was totally despairing.

Some dogs take longer than others, whatever you do!
molliepops
23-02-2016
Echo what others are saying but also I always think we have to teach them English before expecting too much up to a week ago she would have been speaking dog with her siblings and parents now one week later you expect her to understand you, just very unlikely she will have picked up your language yet.
CollieWobbles
23-02-2016
One week isn't very long, some take weeks, some take months. 9 weeks isn't very old at all, it takes time for a puppy to learn to hold and control its bladder, and remember that a Newfie matures far slower than a small breed will, she will be a 'puppy' mentally for around 18-24 months. Take her out before bed, after waking up, after every meal, every playtime, every time she wakes up from a nap and every 20 minutes in between those times. Keep up what your doing, it'll come in time.
Porcupine
23-02-2016
My dog is 7 months old and only last week he had a little wee in our dining room. It was his first one in about three weeks so we were disappointed. The silly thing was, it was our fault. I changed his routine slightly and he did a wee.

Don't beat yourself up over it OP. When we only had ours for a week, he was peeing all over the place !!!! Nearly daily he had a little wee somewhere as both of us were getting into new routines. Now I sort of know when he will want to go (although as proved last week, I still slip up). I know he likes to go just before I start cooking the dinner or he will pee in the hallway watching me. I know that, even if I have just popped to the local shop, I need to take him outside before fussing commences. Its all new to both of you.

Incidentally, you are doing well getting puppy to NOT pee at night. That was the last thing that improved with mine. He peed most evenings and whenever he was left for the first month before he gradually grew out of it. We would have a run of 4-5 days of dry floor ... and then back to square one again.
DigitalSpyUser
23-02-2016
It takes a lot longer than a week try a few weeks to a couple of months and maybe longer. The rule of thumb is that they will hold on for 1 hour for every month old they are, until about 8 months. It sounds like you are doing the right thing. You just have to keep doing it and be patient.

If your pup is only 9 weeks old, she is way too young anyway. As been said. What you are doing is the equivalent to potty training a six month old. Just keep using the puppy pads and keep mopping up. That's what the rest of us do/did until they were old enough.
Gnomsie
25-02-2016
Thank you all again! Everyone I asked who have dogs said theirs picked it up within days, which made me feel like I was at fault somewhere. I grew up with dogs, but this is the first I've had since living away from home. Toilet training is the only thing I've had no experience of.

We seem to be mastering a routine. I'm getting to grips with when she's most likely to need a wee, though poos are so far completely unpredictable. She's also an incredibly messy drinker, and likes to eat whilst standing in her water bowl, so the floor is constantly wet anyway. I can't tell what's pee and what's water fun, so the mop is constantly out.

I've noticed a change in her the past couple of days. She seems a little more eager to please, rather than just running about like a loon. We've been working on sit, wait, lie down and give paw, and the past couple of days she's been going through her routine without prompting. She was even giving the cat a paw earlier. And house training is getting better, so I think she's starting to figure out the whole do good things and get rewards thing.

Can I ask a bit more advice? She's having her second lot of injections tomorrow, and will be out and about in a couple of weeks. My breeder advised me to take her swimming as its softer on her joints. But, what age is it safe to let a Newfie loose in water?
riversmum
25-02-2016
I think I'd ask the vet their opinion on swimming. I'm glad that things seem to be coming together, I bet giving the cat a paw was so funny to see and so sweet!
molliepops
25-02-2016
If you use a harness and long lunge lead you can get them into water quite early, we always first few swims do that just until they are confident in water.
calamity
25-02-2016
I rolled up my big rug and put pads down all over leading out to the kitchen door as I couldnt let the pup our for a few weeks as he hadnt been vaccinated... so it was like training him for three weeks to pee at the indside door then retrain him to go outside but it came quite natural to him with loads of praise and pats .... he made a few mistakes but he was young, but keep praising and never hit him.. or her for wetting.. it makes them think doing a pee is bad..
CollieWobbles
25-02-2016
Newfoundlands need very careful controlled exercise. Theykeep growing up until 2 years and a Newfie puppy has soft joints and ligaments which have to support a very heavy body, so it is vital that pressure is not put on these developing bones and muscles or that the dog is not allowed to overdo it as it will cause problems in later life. At 8-10 weeks old five minutes twice a day on the lead is enough. Increase by one minute for each week of age up to 9 months. During this time that coupled with supervised free time in the garden is all your puppy needs. After 9 months you can gradually increase the walks, but don't allow her to over exert herself or play enthusiastic games with other dogs. Do not allow her to go up and down stairs, exercise on concrete or jump off anything until she's at least two years old as it will put enormous strain on her joints.

Swimming is ideal as it will allow her to exercise and build muscle and tone safely and controlled, whilst being suspended in the water will support her without pressure. Have a look out for a canine hydrotherapy centre near you. Not all newfies will just swim instantly, you have to introduce them slowly and carefully and don't let her stay too long in the water or she'll get chilled and overtired. Many newfies love water so much they will stay in it all day if allowed, teach her to come out when you say so now whilst she's small enough for you to handle, as you will have a hell of a job to get a 30kg wet dog out of a pool if it doesn't want to listen to you!
Gnomsie
26-02-2016
I've just had a Google and there's a hydrotherapy pool a few miles away. I think we will go there for the first few times so I can swim with her. That'll ease the worry.
Dragging her out of the water run in the back garden is hard enough now, Colliewobbles, never mind deep water when she's fully grown!

I'm trying to limit her exercise. She's such a big buffoon though, insists on bounding around the house, falling over her feet and crashing into walls. I don't actually have any structured exercise yet. She's very active in the house and the back garden (it's totally closed off with a 6 foot wall, we don't get any other animals in there). Once the back door is open she runs laps round the garden, through the kitchen, round the coffee table in the living room and back out.

Riversmum; it was absolutely hilarious to watch. The cat promptly returned the paw, with a slap on the head. The cat likes to pretend he's not a fan of the new addition, but you can tell he enjoys the extra attention.
CollieWobbles
26-02-2016
Originally Posted by Gnomsie:
“I've just had a Google and there's a hydrotherapy pool a few miles away. I think we will go there for the first few times so I can swim with her. That'll ease the worry.
Dragging her out of the water run in the back garden is hard enough now, Colliewobbles, never mind deep water when she's fully grown!

I'm trying to limit her exercise. She's such a big buffoon though, insists on bounding around the house, falling over her feet and crashing into walls. I don't actually have any structured exercise yet. She's very active in the house and the back garden (it's totally closed off with a 6 foot wall, we don't get any other animals in there). Once the back door is open she runs laps round the garden, through the kitchen, round the coffee table in the living room and back out.

Riversmum; it was absolutely hilarious to watch. The cat promptly returned the paw, with a slap on the head. The cat likes to pretend he's not a fan of the new addition, but you can tell he enjoys the extra attention.”

Whilst your waiting to find a pool, I'd start practing lead walking in the house and garden, you do not want a fully grown newfie who doesn't have good lead manners, you'd end up with arms like Mr Tickle. Their a draught animal, it's in their nature to drag things behind them, so it will be much easier to begin whilst she's still relatively small and manageable than trying to stop her when she's 30kg + with the habit ingrained in.

She sounds a real character!
Gnomsie
26-02-2016
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“Whilst your waiting to find a pool, I'd start practing lead walking in the house and garden, you do not want a fully grown newfie who doesn't have good lead manners, you'd end up with arms like Mr Tickle. Their a draught animal, it's in their nature to drag things behind them, so it will be much easier to begin whilst she's still relatively small and manageable than trying to stop her when she's 30kg + with the habit ingrained in.

She sounds a real character!”

Oh the lead is an absolutely hilarious disaster. We try, we usually fail. We kind of manage it if I kept the lead tight so she stays by my side, but there's a lot of her trying to knock me on my bum. As soon as I give her a bit of slack, she manages to get tangled round everything in sight
We'll get there eventually, and it's so fun learning. She's just a big ball of silly fun, a proper comedian.
CollieWobbles
26-02-2016
Originally Posted by Gnomsie:
“Oh the lead is an absolutely hilarious disaster. We try, we usually fail. We kind of manage it if I kept the lead tight so she stays by my side, but there's a lot of her trying to knock me on my bum. As soon as I give her a bit of slack, she manages to get tangled round everything in sight
We'll get there eventually, and it's so fun learning. She's just a big ball of silly fun, a proper comedian.”

it might be worth trying a head collar on her until she's mastered the heel command as you can have more control guiding her head, in the same way they do with horses. Normally you wouldn't revert to one until there was a pulling problem, but with such a big puppy it will give you an added help in the right direction. I wouldn't advise a harness, they are designed to spread the weight more evenly and encourage them to pull more!

Their a wonderful dog if you have the space for them, like a big cuddly teddy Their only downside is their short lifespan and the drool. The fur under their chin and neck gets all caggly and matted with it if their not brushed and cleaned off enough. You can also get bibs for them to wear but I'm not sure how successful they are.
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