This is a set up where having Lesnar as a special attraction, only fights on PPV World Champion would work perfectly.

Ideally you'd have the US belt at the top of the card on one brand, and the IC belt on the other.

Why should anything happen to Flair? Flair kissing Becky Lynch was a scripted part of a fictional storyline. What exactly would you like to be done? Lol

It is odd a male heel does it to a face female it's sexual assult.

A male face does it to a female heel and it's funny and the female getting her comeuppance.

The upcoming NXT's Greatest Matches V1 DVD will feature a never before seen CM Punk match. It was from 2012 and saw him team up with Rollins vs Cesaro and Kassius Ohno

Viewing the dvd Here. Is there a signed Finn Balor edition, and a separate Enzo and Cass signed edition?! I can't make it out. It say's at the bottom of the page (currently viewing), and in the address bar 'Finn Balor signed edition' yet in the description it's Enzo and Cass. Strange!

Out of the 2, i'd rather pre order a Finn Balor signed copy!

Freebirds to be inducted into the HOF confirmed on WWE's FB page.

It depends how its run. I'm just assuming that HHH would be taking the reigns on one of these shows and thus would be able to protect his main NXT priorities better than he has been able to under the full glare of Vince and Dunn on Raw.

I don't think the relegation of Smackdown to the Network in place of NXT is feasible at all though, simply because Smackdown is a more known commodity so USA won't let that be replaced by what would essentially be a new show on their channel.

This is a serious problem with modern wrestling - heels can't do anything to get heat because as soon as they do something really bad, people just whinge about the company instead of doing what they're meant to do and booing the guy who did that bad thing.

Heels very rarely do anything "bad" now though.

I miss the days when they would slag the absolute balls off the audience/town where the show came from. And the "asshole" chant. Heels now only ever beat up the faces, who nobody likes anyway

Exactly. Vince and Dunn apparently feel like wrestlers shouldn't play to the crowd so much because the TV audience is most important but that's stupid for so many reasons. I enjoy wrestling a lot more when the crowd is hot, so actually playing to them enhances the experience for the viewer at home too. And if a guy can turn a few crowds on him and get serious boos, that will follow week after week by repetition.

The problem with modern heels I feel is threefold; firstly they aren't allowed to do anything bad, secondly there are no well developed stories that actually establishes them as bad guys and finally, so many of them aren't committed to being heels but are very nudge nudge, wink wink about it. That also translates into how they wrestle as well. For example, Seth Rollins is supposed to be a bad guy but his matches have loads of flips and high flying moves that by design, get cheers from an audience.

I never did like the slagging off of home towns as that is just cheap heat don't like prasing home towns either for a cheap pop.

I thought brets 20 year deal was 4 years wrestling and 16 in the back office booking/agent etc

Would love to see the brand split back,

It would force WWE to use wrestlers they don't use so much now. With half the roster on the other show the wrestlers on each show have more chance of airtime.

Smackdown would gain some relevance again. With wrestlers you could only see on Smackdown it gives the show an attraction for fans to watch instead of the mostly throwaway show it is now.

And of course, Bragging Rights would return. Lol

This is wrestling, not Shakespeare. The fans who attend the shows, I believe, genuinely want to boo the bad guys, and cheer the good guys. It's as good a way as any to do it. The problem is modern day WWE simply doesn't give those fans the opportunities to do either of those things - I think FMKK was spot on with his analysis of that.

One of my all-time favourite wrestling segments was heel Rock's concert in 2003. That man knew how to work a crowd:

"Oh man it feels so good to be back here in Sacramento!"
*Big cheers*
"And the best part about being here in Sacramento is that in about an hour and a half, The Rock is gonna LEAVE Sacramento!"
*Massive heat*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SidWPrO5-w



Cheap? Sure. But who cares? The in-ring product may have a degree of artistic sophistication to it but wrestling storytelling is always at its best when it is basic and effective IE. a pantomime. You don't go to a pantomime and complain when the bad guy does stereotypically nasty things and toys with the audience. Why would you want any different in wrestling?

Too many people try to pretend wrestling is this highly sophisticated art form. It isn't. It is low-brow, popcorn entertainment - so embrace that. That "Wrestling Isn't Wrestling" video was a nice little video, but was also a steaming pile of bullcrap.

I remember reading - who knows how true it was - that Vince believes there are no more babyfaces or heels in wrestling. The way they've developed the wrestlers since probably as far back as 1997 would substantiate it.

That's still a questionable statement because John Cena, for example, has been even more calculatingly protected as a 'hero' since at least 2007. Kalisto, AJ Styles and Neville are pure babyfaces. For nearly everybody else the lines are very blurred. They did try to get Roman Reigns over in the 'hero to the kids' mould before they gave up and had him destroy Triple H. Fan favourites Lesnar, Ambrose, The Undertaker, Kane, Jericho, Show, Orton and even Ziggler are either bordering on or well over the line of being tweener when you look are their actions in since their last face turn.

Still, they've tried to establish some guys as pure heel within the narrative. For example, Owens, arguably the most committed at working the heel persona, has tried to injure people using the ring apron after a match has ended. The Wyatt Family abduct wrestlers and claim to being truly evil (then again, so did Kaientai ). Sheamus has claimed himself to ending Bryan's career and Del Rio ruthlessly kicked the shit of a post concussion Ziggler. Rollins joined The Authority and fast tracked to the world title.

Generally, a lot of lazy storytelling and no idea on how to actually do this PG Attitude version of tweenerville.

Biggest issue heel wise is that they don't actually win enough or more accurately get to look strong. HHH and Steph are an exception but most of the other heels lose far too regularly and are made to look far too weak and often at times just plain incompetent. Which makes it far harder for someone to be loathed. If someone gets their comeuppance every week, I've less likely to pay to see them lose again.

On the 'not fully committed to being heels' thing New Day are quite bad for that I find. Their material is often stuff they know the crowd will cheer for.
That said there's a balance between being a heel and being entertaining and over.

And to be frank I want to be entertained more than anything. And the crowd will support whoever they want to.

Doesn't help too really that some of the faces frankly behave like heels and the booking at times almost makes you side with the heel.

Next back .... Breaking Point.

I remember back in the days when it was a fairly proper split, I preferred Smackdown to Raw. Seemed a more relaxed watch and seemed the place to see new talent and see them get a proper push - which rarely happened on Raw. It was a good mix of established talent and new talent.

Raw had maybe the better moments and segments but was much more hit-and-miss and much of what happened across the card on there felt like it simply didn't matter.

Everyone loved Breaking Point. Lol

Back in 02-04 when the split was properly enforced, Smackdown was, at the beginning, the better show.

In 2003 Raw was all about HHH (Which I didn't mind too much because I liked HHH back then) vs WCW and Smackdown was about Angle and Lesnar which was some top stuff.

But Raw also had HBK, Rock vs Austin III, Goldberg's debut whereas Smackdown had the US Title tournament, the new tag titles which produced some quality matches.

Both shows utilised their rosters, and you got to see two shows with different storylines and different feuds. Something that would benefit WWE again now.

And of course, you'd get to see this every year:

https://youtu.be/jjm8fORxmtc

There's always one

Now excuse me whilst I go and watch the greatest and most imaginative PPV ever - WWE Fatal 4 Way

They're part of the problem in my opinion. Stephanie doesn't wrestle, verbally buries all the babyfaces and dresses down the heels too when she "feels" like they're out of line. I remember when Orton was feuding with Bryan in 2013 and looking like nothing more than a glorified lackey when he was with those two. I felt the same too a little with Seth being associated with them, with him coming across there bratty son. You can't ever expect guys to become biggest heels in the company when they're always playing second fiddle to a non-wrestler and a part timer.

Totally agree with you on heels not winning enough. Russev went on a massive winning streak after he debuted, and was getting great reactions. The guy was doing so well that he even got Jack Swagger of all people massive pops
I think they should have done the same with Wyatt when he debuted. Just have him untouchable sitting on his chair for a few months, with Rowan and Harper doing all the donkey work.

I've been reading this thread a lot over the past year when watching the PPV's and quite often instead of watching Raw but haven't ever posted before as I'm only watching again after a long absence. I really enjoy the opinions shared, learning facts I didn't know and very much the terms of phrase that some of you use. I'd be interested to know if there's anyone who currently isn't on TV a lot (and officially on the main roster as per wwe.com / not injured) that you believe could have been a star if given the correct gimmick, valet, push etc. - someone you believe does have what it takes to be even a decent superstar but isn't used correctly. Names like:

Jack Swagger
Fandango
Tyler Breeze
Diego
Fernando
Darren Young
Damien Sandow
Zack Ryder
Summer Rae
Alicia Fox
Natalya
Emma

You forget the key element in all this Raw = WWE. It will always will be the bread winner of the company that if Smackdown ever became a better product it would be crushed to help Raw. It happened time and time again due the brand split.

The brand split initially worked due to the amount of talent in WWE book after the merger of the competition. Once talent retired, no longer an asset Smackdown simply became the feeder ground with questionable World champions that devalued the main title at the same time.

In today's WWE a brand split would be a bigger disaster. The roster has suffered from long term injuries and despite having three hours of Raw has hardily created anything new. What would split the brand into two achieve? A split of resources at a time when resources are needed.

Smackdown should be Raw extra in many ways, continue the bigger storylines from Raw in order to build up the next Raw and then have those who werent on Raw be on Smackdown. It worked well like this in the past. Isnt any need for it to be separate.

Oh man, Cowardly Orton.

The Viper, The Apex Predator, The Face of WWE, too scared to face anybody or do anything.

Orton should always be badass.

As sure as I am that some on here weren't fans of the Draft, I sodding loved it.

Though I'm sure at least 2 of Mark Henry, Kane, Big Show and Rey Mysterio moved every draft.

That said the Cena thing in 2011 did sort of make a laughing stock of the concept. Cole's reaction to Cena being drafted back to Raw there is brilliant.

The Supplementary Draft was good too. Less high-profile and often moves meant nothing but sometimes moves practically saved the career of some people.

As an example, Ziggler I'm pretty sure would've been released if he'd been kept on Raw back in 2009 but was moved to Smackdown, got a chance and is still on the roster 7 years later.

Welcome to the thread

Using a name from your list, Nattie is criminally underused.