Much like Arsenal though (another WWE/Arsenal comparison), WWE have a choice coming up.

They can continue on the current path and at best stagnate, make some fairly large changes but keep the same sort of structure (with no one really sure how it'll go) or really respond to criticism head-on, make some very bold decisions and start as if from scratch.

Depends what they decide to do.
Think if they stay with Vince for a while yet we'll get option 1, if HHH and Steph take over we get option 2. The question is if option 3 is needed.

And just like no one is pushing Vince out of WWE, no one is pushing Wenger out of Arsenal.

Russo said it best and I agree with him. He thinks what happened is, the injuries happened, they got the call that Cena probably wont make it to Wrestlemania, Vince made some calls and got turned down by people and in the WWE's bag of tricks the Shane McMahon card was there to play and it probably was a case of Shane doing his Dad a favour and Shane basically saying, I don't need you or this company anymore but I'll do this, but if I do this I'm gonna say what I want to say and at that point what can Vince do? If you're asking him to come back you need to let him at least say what he wants.

And there was truth to the things he said, under Stephanie's watch there are more injuries, the ratings are down, business is down, he's not telling any lies but what probably was the most important to him wasn't about the business but about his family and his sons and the fact that he has the male blood in his sons and the company should have been passed down to him and then his sons and that's not where it is headed.


And Russo talked about his meeting with Vince in 2002 and how he had breakfast with Shane McMahon the day before and Shane was excited to have Russo back in the company. Russo pitched Shane coming back to TV, he pitched a WCW angle and then pitched a angle where Eric Bischoff would come in as the Raw GM. The next day Vince McMahon introduced Russo to the writers and in that room was Paul Heyman and Michael Hayes and as Russo describes it about 20 21 year olds that looked like they just walked out of college, he laid out all the ideas he had to them but Stephanie was not at the building that day. Vince McMahon brought him into an office where Stephanie was on loudspeaker on the phone and started talking down to Russo despite Russo being much older than her and telling him what he will and will not do and Russo basically knew then it wouldn't work. Vince McMahon called him the next day and said the same thing that he was sorry but he doesn't think it will work out. Russo told him the same thing and the last thing he said was, you don't have the talent in that room and you don't have the talent in your company to turn this ship around.....

And within a few months Eric Bischoff was on TV as GM and some of the WCW stars got pushes. lol.

At least WWE doesn't have the constant cycles of hope followed my disappointment.

I'm more bored by the 'fire Wenger, Wenger is great' stuff at this point than any WWE viewer is with opening promos or 6-man tags. The arguments are nearly as repetitive too.

Edit: And talking of repetitive and boring ....

But business isn't down, at least not to the extent some would have you believe. Shane spoke the truth about the ratings and the share price but Vince/Steph could easily have pointed to the record revenue in 2015, record television rights, more people than ever legally viewing WWE pay-per-views as a show of how business is going right.

I like the implication that we're supposed to support Shane McMahon as a babyface because he is male and has sons and thus is a more 'rightful' heir to the family business.

WWE never has these cycles? Really?

Did you not watch during the Daniel Bryan road to WM? lol

I think Arsenal fans have a right to be frustrated with Wenger. Best chance they've had to win the league in ages and it looks like they'll miss out.

But you'll probably win the FA Cup and Wenger won't spend any money (again) and his team will have mental strength.

Stepping back though it's pretty tough to argue that WWE are exactly moving onwards and upwards and the current buzz around the main shows is unhealthy and unsustainable.

Something feels like it needs to change. The question is how and how much.

Obviously there have been changes with the Network for example but they're obviously not enough judging by the buzz around the product.

I liked what you said the other day. Shane came in, destroyed the executive team, had a go about share price and ratings and could leave AFTER WWE scripted how shit the product is

I'm not saying things are moving onwards or indeed upwards, I'm saying that whilst you can say the share price has fallen, Vince could have responded it's share price has always fluctuated. You can say ratings have fallen, Vince could point to falling ratings across the board and that despite the falling ratings, their main TV partner is paying more than ever and they remain most weeks the #1 show on cable television.

I'm just saying there is (to me at least) an idea that the world is caving in on WWE and when you look at the figures it really isn't as much as people claim it is. That's not to say it's thriving but it's not as bad as some claim.

Neither should have more rights than the other.

However of course in real life Shane did take the money rather than co ownership so now when Vince retires/dies Steph will get it all ( With HHH) unless Shane buys back in.

In a ideal world Shane would have stayed and when the time came with co ownership neither could go to far with stupid ideas as from what is known they have very diffrent views.

Who is the babyface in this storyline to be honest?

There are arguments to suggest Shane is the heel here.

The last few months haven't had cycles really - it's been roughly the same level of shite.
And bar one or two weeks/months, WWE has been roughly on the same level of quality for a while.
Arsenal are much more up and down lol.

And I include the build to WM30 in that. Much of the start on the road to WM30 was not good too it must be remembered - crowds absolutely burying the World title match and Rumble itself that year.

Not saying fans shouldn't be tired of Wenger - think he sort of has to go now and most fans have reached a breaking point with him there's no benefit to continuing. I'm a fan but think that's the harsh truth of it. Only leads to more and more vitriol again and again which benefits no one.

Could a similar argument be made for Vince?

Do we think they've thought that far ahead?

Exactly. That's TNA tactics there if the Authority win again.

Surely that depends on whether there is somebody (people) ready to step up.

I think Dixie watched that segment saying either "**** sake, they say we're bad" or "DAMN! Why didn't I think of that"

I get what you mean but at the same time 'it's not as bad as some claim' isn't an argument for the status quo.

And maybe WWE should respond to those points rather than excusing them. For example on ratings rather than explaining away the fall they should try and change it up and make it rise and show that they're bucking the trend.

I just think the whole atmosphere around WWE from fans is rather unhealthy and dare I say it toxic and it's the sort of thing that needs to change.
I keep mentioning Arsenal the last few days as the current situation there sort of brings the idea of sticking with the usual or changing into sharp focus.

Think in WWE's case there might be some options.
Not that anyone has mentioned them. There's some guy called Paul Leversque I hear? And a certain Dixon Carter?

But again, I'm not saying that's a cal for the status quo.

Probably not.

There are so many ways they could go with this.

Shane sides with Vince.
Stephanie turns on Vince.
Vince turns on Stephanie.
They all unite.

I really hope Shane hasn't just come in to lose at WM and disappear again. Think they could really do something with this McMahon power struggle (yeah I know its been done before) but it would be a better option than the Authority just running things as standard.

No one should push Vince out of WWE, it should be his choice and it's not a case of whether he can work or not or he's not working as hard as he used to or he's doing things wrong. What Vince McMahon knows, Vince McMahon does best. What Vince McMahon is doing right now is great family wrestling. It's great family wrestling. Wrestling that isn't racist or homophobic, the good guys always win, the bad guys look like fools. What Vince McMahon is doing is great.


But it's 25 years out of date. Society has moved on. No offence to John Cena but I mean come on. It's like a kid in the 1980s with the buck teeth and the bright yellow blonde hair and the freckles the blue eyes and the kid plays baseball and the Mother is a pillar of the community that everyone respects and the Dad is probably a doctor or lawyer and they live in the lily white community where everyone gets along and the sun is always shining and he grows up to be this big muscle man with the bright white teeth and the perfect skin and this is what a real man should look like and he defends America and all this garbage, it's just so hokey and so old time Americana. It just doesn't apply to people today but if it did apply.....it would be great. That right there, is not working class America. Not in 2016 and I know people here hate Donald Trump but let me tell you....that's the real America right there. That's a nation defending their country and being proud of their country, being proud to be American. That's Americana in 2016. Get a wrestler like that. Get a wrestler that talks that language and acts that way and that'll hook the viewers in. It's not 1989 anymore. People are more patriotic than ever before, just not in the way WWE presents it.


It's like Vince Russo says, if you book your show and you have the Big Show and Kane in the main event, in the year 2016, you're one of two things. You are either ignorant or lazy and Vince McMahon is not an ignorant person, Stephanie McMahon is not an ignorant person, Triple H is not an ignorant person so that leaves lazy. It's laziness and what you see on WWE now is about 10 years worth of laziness and being so cock sure of themselves paying off and rather than face the situation head on, the bag of tricks gets pulled out, no doubt Shawn Steve and Dwayne were asked to do matches, all 3 refused, the John Cena heel turn is in there but he's injured, Batista said no, one of the few things left is the Shane McMahon card and that's what's happening now and they might make more of an effort tonight aswell, they might try a wee bit to fix it but the truth is just like Russo told them in 2002, you don't have the talent in that company to turn this ship around, it's just not there.

And if you're like me and you've been watching for 30 years or longer, i would try and enjoy WWE as much as you can because the fact is we are at a time when some of our most respected stars are no longer with us and I mean that across the board in showbusiness, we are losing so many people it's so sad, and when it comes to Vince McMahon and Ric Flair and The Undertaker and others like Hulk Hogan and many of those retired, the time is coming soon when they wont be around. Wrestling will never have another boom period again and when those guys go, that'll be the end of it for me and I can tell you right now, I don't have another 30 years to wait for the next set of stars to retire and I know how I feel right now, they're not in the same league as the stars I grew watching, granted many of them are dead already, many died long ago but you know what I mean. We're down to single digits here and I bet you that would be the case for many others, when those guys go that's it, wrestling's done so that's what I get out of it now. I get a chance to see some of these names on TV again knowing that it could be the last time or one of the last times I get to live through it and be a part of it so whatever the McMahons do on TV or the Undertaker does i wont badmouth it, it's a time when you just enjoy it and remember the good times and when they finally go, or they go home and shut the door, that's it.

If this was the ultra energetic Vince of yesteryear he'd have properly responded to Shane's attacks, but it isn't. Don't get me wrong, it was a cool barely scripted segment and Vince is still a far more coherent promo man than other old timers such as Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair. But he's an ageing near 71 year old who worked this sort of angle better nearly 20 years ago. The only difference now is its less soapy and more reality based.

WWE slamming their own business ranks up there with the mocking of their own PPV customers.

I sense that's the way it'll be.

Things involving the Authority holding power rarely stick and the return of Shane did seem so random and WWE have so often had no plan around stories that I just feel like there isn't any plan for it besides 'we need an opponent for Taker and a surprise'.

Still great to see Shane back mind. Always my favourite McMahon.

Fair enough. Think there is an argument to be made though about whether WWE should go with evolution or revolution (and I don't mean the WWE stable or NXT PPV).