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Android Pay to Rival Apple Pay in the UK Next Month


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Old 13-09-2016, 23:39
d123
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Whatever, I still think the fingerprint is the way forward. As I said, if Apple Pay was in most places, I would ask for chip and pin cards again.
It works anywhere contactless does, and that's becoming quite commonplace now.
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Old 14-09-2016, 08:48
Nasalhair
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RBS, Santander and NatWest have been added to android pay today
BUT... not all RBS customers are supported. I've been with RBS since 1989 (when I started working for them - left there in 1998) and yesterday I tried adding my RBS Visa Debit card to Android Pay. The app said I couldn't add my card and that my bank wasn't supported. Very odd.

Rang RBS digital wallet support as prompted and gave my details. I was told that my account had been "divested" to Williams & Glynn and W&G wasn't supported, so I couldn't add my card.

The thing is, yes we've had umpteen letters saying that the RBS was going to get its England & Wales personal banking customers and split them off into a new bank called Williams & Glynn (which used to exist as a high street bank years ago until the RBS swallowed it up to expand into England & Wales) but the letters said that this move was planned, and that nothing had actually happened yet. Then in August the RBS announced that the W&G split had been cancelled and its costs written off, but yesterday it turned out that the split has sort of happened without notifying customers, and as a result we can't use Android Pay.

Well done RBS! What a catastrophic balls-up!
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Old 14-09-2016, 10:12
Brian The Dog
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Demand that they un-divest you immediately or sooner!

Is divested even a word?
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Old 14-09-2016, 10:27
Nasalhair
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Demand that they un-divest you immediately or sooner!

Is divested even a word?
Yes it is.
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Old 14-09-2016, 16:53
Faust
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This explanation may help ease the mind of Gomezz and others re: security of Android Pay though maybe not?

Google explained to us at the launch that, although Android Pay is easy for retailers as it requires no extra configuration (unlike Apple Pay), it is harder for the banks because each card in Android Pay gets an alias, meaning that if the transmission is hacked the card numbers won't be the ones on the customer's card and will therefore be useless.
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Old 20-09-2016, 14:36
Faust
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Further to this discussion re: Android Pay v Contactless Cards. This is something I hadn't realised myself until it was explained to me. If your contactless cards get stolen and you cancel them, the cancelled card can still be used for contactless payments - for months and months in many cases.

This is because of how the technology works. It will only cease to work if you have to input a pin number at some point (security check). It's at that point the cancelled card makes a digital connection with the bank and the card ceases to operate.

The banks are aware of this which is why they will always refund your money. Some banks will inform the customer of the continued illegal activity from their account whilst with other banks it's up to the customer to keep checking their statements.
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Old 20-09-2016, 14:41
pad-e
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Android Pay is now available for my bank as of this morning (Ulster Bank, part of the RBS group!) and I have added my card. Interestingly, when using it, you don't need to have your finger on the home button (like on iPhone) to authorise the payment, the screen on the phone merely needs to be active and it works. Not sure if I like that, doesn't seem as secure...
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Old 20-09-2016, 14:42
jonmorris
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The card will have a limit attached to it, so I doubt a thief could use it for more than a few transactions before being told to enter the PIN.

There's a specific set up to stop this when using buses (as there's no PIN pad) but in that case, card numbers can be blacklisted so it will stop working after a day or two.

It's not really worth worrying about.
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Old 20-09-2016, 16:02
binary
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Further to this discussion re: Android Pay v Contactless Cards. This is something I hadn't realised myself until it was explained to me. If your contactless cards get stolen and you cancel them, the cancelled card can still be used for contactless payments - for months and months in many cases.

This is because of how the technology works. It will only cease to work if you have to input a pin number at some point (security check). It's at that point the cancelled card makes a digital connection with the bank and the card ceases to operate.

The banks are aware of this which is why they will always refund your money. Some banks will inform the customer of the continued illegal activity from their account whilst with other banks it's up to the customer to keep checking their statements.
You've got the wrong end of the stick on this.

If your contactess card is lost or stolen, then once you contact your card issuer to cancel it, you are no longer liable for it - simple as.

Yes someone using it fraudulently might be able to get a few transactions out of it, but you won't be liable for them.

There are hotlisting arrangements for lost and stolen cards, plus contactless cards are set up to ask for a PIN if there are so many transactions over a period of time (e.g. if one uses it in contactless mode several times in a day, eventually the user will be asked for a PIN).
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Old 20-09-2016, 16:30
Heanor_Man31
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Android Pay is now available for my bank as of this morning (Ulster Bank, part of the RBS group!) and I have added my card. Interestingly, when using it, you don't need to have your finger on the home button (like on iPhone) to authorise the payment, the screen on the phone merely needs to be active and it works. Not sure if I like that, doesn't seem as secure...
It's also worth pointing out with Android Pay any transactions over £30 and you're required to enter a PIN/use your finger print to authorise the payment.

And as pointed out once you notify your bank of any card loss you're not liable for any purchases carried out (unless you were negligible i.e. disclosed your PIN etc).
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Old 20-09-2016, 16:52
Faust
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You've got the wrong end of the stick on this.

If your contactess card is lost or stolen, then once you contact your card issuer to cancel it, you are no longer liable for it - simple as.

Yes someone using it fraudulently might be able to get a few transactions out of it, but you won't be liable for them.

There are hotlisting arrangements for lost and stolen cards, plus contactless cards are set up to ask for a PIN if there are so many transactions over a period of time (e.g. if one uses it in contactless mode several times in a day, eventually the user will be asked for a PIN).
There's been a guy on the radio this morning that fully admits a contactless card is able to work for months after the banks cancel the card. If you read my post I never said the loser of the card was liable, quite the contrary.

The card as I and you rightly say will continue working until such time when the card reader asks for a PIN - it will at that point no longer work. There have been instances where this is six and seven months after being stolen.
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Old 20-09-2016, 16:53
Faust
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It's also worth pointing out with Android Pay any transactions over £30 and you're required to enter a PIN/use your finger print to authorise the payment.

And as pointed out once you notify your bank of any card loss you're not liable for any purchases carried out (unless you were negligible i.e. disclosed your PIN etc).
I now use Android Pay wherever possible.
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Old 20-09-2016, 17:00
jonmorris
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There's been a guy on the radio this morning that fully admits a contactless card is able to work for months after the banks cancel the card. If you read my post I never said the loser of the card was liable, quite the contrary.

The card as I and you rightly say will continue working until such time when the card reader asks for a PIN - it will at that point no longer work. There have been instances where this is six and seven months after being stolen.
Does it matter if it keeps working for 100 years? You'll have a new card by then.
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Old 20-09-2016, 17:32
noise747
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Further to this discussion re: Android Pay v Contactless Cards. This is something I hadn't realised myself until it was explained to me. If your contactless cards get stolen and you cancel them, the cancelled card can still be used for contactless payments - for months and months in many cases.

This is because of how the technology works. It will only cease to work if you have to input a pin number at some point (security check). It's at that point the cancelled card makes a digital connection with the bank and the card ceases to operate.

The banks are aware of this which is why they will always refund your money. Some banks will inform the customer of the continued illegal activity from their account whilst with other banks it's up to the customer to keep checking their statements.
One of the reasons I asked my bank to send me a normal card, thankfully my bank will, I think all banks should give people the choice of of not having a contactless card. I am surprised that banks even want to bother with them as they are so insecure.
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Old 20-09-2016, 17:33
noise747
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Android Pay is now available for my bank as of this morning (Ulster Bank, part of the RBS group!) and I have added my card. Interestingly, when using it, you don't need to have your finger on the home button (like on iPhone) to authorise the payment, the screen on the phone merely needs to be active and it works. Not sure if I like that, doesn't seem as secure...
Nor is a contactless card.
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Old 20-09-2016, 17:33
binary
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Does it matter if it keeps working for 100 years? You'll have a new card by then.
I guess it matters to us all in the sense that as customers of the banking system we all end up paying for it.

I'd think that intelligent use of hotlisting for a lost/stolen card could catch it sooner rather than later, though if there was little to no pattern in how it was fraudulently used, and in different geographic locations, then it could be harder to pin down.

The banks have obviously done a risk analysis on contactless and are happy enough with the system they have implemented.
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Old 20-09-2016, 17:55
tealady
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Android Pay is now available for my bank as of this morning (Ulster Bank, part of the RBS group!) and I have added my card. Interestingly, when using it, you don't need to have your finger on the home button (like on iPhone) to authorise the payment, the screen on the phone merely needs to be active and it works. Not sure if I like that, doesn't seem as secure...
You need to activate the security on the phone to use it ie pattern unlock or pin. But I guess you have this.
You need NFC on as well, so there is always the option of only turning on NFC when required and turning it off after.
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Old 20-09-2016, 18:41
jonmorris
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I guess it matters to us all in the sense that as customers of the banking system we all end up paying for it.

I'd think that intelligent use of hotlisting for a lost/stolen card could catch it sooner rather than later, though if there was little to no pattern in how it was fraudulently used, and in different geographic locations, then it could be harder to pin down.

The banks have obviously done a risk analysis on contactless and are happy enough with the system they have implemented.
But with a limit set, if someone chooses to make a few £30 payments and have the PIN request done soon, or lots of tiny payments and have it later, the damage is the same.

What thief would risk keeping a card for months in the hope of it still working for a cup of coffee in Starbucks, and that it won't be blacklisted and they run the risk of being caught (however slight)?
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:26
Faust
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Does it matter if it keeps working for 100 years? You'll have a new card by then.
Well yes it does if money keeps being taken from your account. The banks may reimburse you but that's hardly the point is it? There are also some banks that instead of notifying the customer that money has been withdrawn from their account the customer has to keep checking their statements and then inform the bank of the illegal activity.

It's not an ideal situation by any means. People I have spoken to today had no idea this could happen with their contactless cards. They like me assumed that once you had informed your bank your card had been stolen the card was cancelled and that was an end to it - seemingly it's not.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:29
jonmorris
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But it is like that. And surely once the card is stopped, someone could potentially use it but it isn't coming out of your account and you don't need to worry.

As an aside, my phone couldn't be used to pay in Waitrose this evening. Failed twice and the app said I couldn't use the card at this time and to try another.

I used my physical card instead, contactless, on the same reader which worked.

Very odd.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:32
Faust
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What thief would risk keeping a card for months in the hope of it still working for a cup of coffee in Starbucks, and that it won't be blacklisted and they run the risk of being caught (however slight)?
Well apparently quite a few, this surprised me too but this is what was said. It was mentioned that the cards are being used 'normally' i.e. for smallish amounts maybe a few times a month. I can only assume that the thieves are aware of how the system works and are taking advantage of it.
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Old 20-09-2016, 22:37
Faust
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But it is like that. And surely once the card is stopped, someone could potentially use it but it isn't coming out of your account and you don't need to worry.

As an aside, my phone couldn't be used to pay in Waitrose this evening. Failed twice and the app said I couldn't use the card at this time and to try another.

I used my physical card instead, contactless, on the same reader which worked.

Very odd.
Yes it is like that. The chap on the radio said he hadn't noticed for months what was going on. It was only as he was checking something else on his bank statement that he noticed a purchase that he couldn't remember making.

When he then looked at other statements there were lots of other small purchases. He then informed his bank who told him what was happening and said to him that in time his old card would expire. This is when the expert explained how the system works (or doesn't).
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