Android Pay to Rival Apple Pay in the UK Next Month

lamby · 18-05-2016, 21:00

How do loyalty cards work?

tealady · 18-05-2016, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamby

How do loyalty cards work?

How do they work at the moment?

lamby · 18-05-2016, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealady

How do they work at the moment?

Normally Tesco is barcode scanned or swiped.

Red Arrow · 18-05-2016, 21:50

I read something that seemed to imply if you used Android Pay at Tesco for example and had your Clubcard on the Pay app, it will somehow reward you the points. Perhaps Android Pay checks when making a purchase and tells the retailer to reward the points.

But in my mind that would require all retailers to rework some of the code on the tills/payment system to work with that. I doubt they've all done this.

tealady · 18-05-2016, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamby

Normally Tesco is barcode scanned or swiped.

So not connected t the method of payment then?

Brian The Dog · 18-05-2016, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aye Up

The system isn't easy to setup due to the way the transactions are secured. When using your card for a contactless purchase its no different to chip and pin (save not entering a pin), the process is the same. For Android and Apple Pay we know unique auth codes are used once in every transaction, thats where the complication lies.

Why does it have to be that way? As I said earlier, I installed an app that reads contactless cards and my Barclays Debit card readily coughed up the card number and expiry date; if that is all that is needed to take money from my bank account and Barclays are happy with that, why do we even need Android Pay as all you need is a simple app where you insert your card number and expiry date and it just sends that to the `terminal like a contactless card does?

Call it a contactless card emulator if you wish, but if Barclays are happy with the security on contactless transactions (or lack of it) then why the need for anything more complex?

alanwarwic · 18-05-2016, 21:53

The reason handset makers want you to leave Wifi and BT on is for things such as loyalty cards. Is that not one of the intents of iBeacon?

And Google Face Pay sounds a spookier version of the user tracking scenarios BT and Wifi offer.

Brian The Dog · 18-05-2016, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by mossy2103

Maybe you don't always have your credit cards with you, but will probably have your phone.

??? Wow how the world has changed. Mostly I always take both but as money is always more important than reading what my facebook friends are saying they had for breakfast, then my wallet with my card and/or cash takes priority over remembering to take my phone!

Plus as a debit card is as thin as anything, if would fit nicely inside most phone cases and so no need for a wallet. Hey, if your contactless debit card is close enough to the surface of the phone case you could pay just by holding your phone next to the terminal: Who needs Android pay?

kidspud · 18-05-2016, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

The reason handset makers want you to leave Wifi and BT on is for things such as loyalty cards. Is that not one of the intents of iBeacon?

And Google Face Pay sounds a spookier version of the user tracking scenarios BT and Wifi offer.

In Apple Pay, neither wifi or BT are needed. Even if you use loyalty cards it will update later if wifi is off.

mossy2103 · 19-05-2016, 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian The Dog

??? Wow how the world has changed. Mostly I always take both but as money is always more important than reading what my facebook friends are saying they had for breakfast, then my wallet with my card and/or cash takes priority over remembering to take my phone!

Plus as a debit card is as thin as anything, if would fit nicely inside most phone cases and so no need for a wallet. Hey, if your contactless debit card is close enough to the surface of the phone case you could pay just by holding your phone next to the terminal: Who needs Android pay?

Two points:

1) What if you go out and forget your credit cards (but have your phone)? I have done this on occasion.

2) With your contactless credit card in your phone case, what if you use a terminal that does not accept contactless cards? You need to take out your card and some cases are very fiddly (risking your phone dropping to the floor whilst you juggle with case and card).

It might be ideal for you, but maybe not for other people.

jonmorris · 19-05-2016, 07:13

I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet.

What next? Your smartwatch means you don't need to worry about remembering your phone?

If you forget your keys, no matter as you'll have a smart lock that can be opened with your phone.

Like Apple Pay, Android Pay will be useful at times but I won't leave my ordinary card at home. I'll just choose what to use at the time.

kidspud · 19-05-2016, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet.

What next? Your smartwatch means you don't need to worry about remembering your phone?

If you forget your keys, no matter as you'll have a smart lock that can be opened with your phone.

Like Apple Pay, Android Pay will be useful at times but I won't leave my ordinary card at home. I'll just choose what to use at the time.

Agreed. I would like to see the introduction of loyalty cards in the uk. I have a m&s, boots and nectar card and if I could get rid of them it would be great.

Mark in Essex · 19-05-2016, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet.

What next? Your smartwatch means you don't need to worry about remembering your phone?

If you forget your keys, no matter as you'll have a smart lock that can be opened with your phone.

Like Apple Pay, Android Pay will be useful at times but I won't leave my ordinary card at home. I'll just choose what to use at the time.

Sometimes I don't forget my wallet - sometimes I may just pop out to the gym thinking "I don't need to buy anything" and my wife will text me to ask to pick up some milk/bread on the way home or if I go out for a run and go further than normal and decide I would like a drink.

Why would people take the risk of loosing their whole wallet - if anything all you need is 1 debit card (makes me laugh when my friend goes abroad on holiday and has his library card with him in his wallet.

I'd like to not even have to carry the phone around with me (and it's not for checking any social media as I don't do that) - it's more for music, the Internet (if I need it) and of course communication.

I don't want to rely on it totally - just a backup for one of those moments I probably only get 5 or 6 times a year.

The only thing I don't like about contactless payment is that I was told it takes a few more days for the money to come out of your bank account?

Red Arrow · 19-05-2016, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

Sometimes I don't forget my wallet - sometimes I may just pop out to the gym thinking "I don't need to buy anything" and my wife will text me to ask to pick up some milk/bread on the way home or if I go out for a run and go further than normal and decide I would like a drink.

Why would people take the risk of loosing their whole wallet - if anything all you need is 1 debit card (makes me laugh when my friend goes abroad on holiday and has his library card with him in his wallet.

I'd like to not even have to carry the phone around with me (and it's not for checking any social media as I don't do that) - it's more for music, the Internet (if I need it) and of course communication.

I don't want to rely on it totally - just a backup for one of those moments I probably only get 5 or 6 times a year.

The only thing I don't like about contactless payment is that I was told it takes a few more days for the money to come out of your bank account?

Other half is always forgetting her purse so I have to go find her in town to lend her my contactless card. Now with this she at least has her phone as a backup.

Plus also her credit card company is refusing to issue out contactless cards to her, saying they will only do so once the current ones expire. Drives her up the wall as you now almost get a funny look in London when having to enter your PIN for a small transaction

So this will help her a lot.

Decepticons1 · 19-05-2016, 09:55

Well, my Costa loyalty card doesn't work properly and have been using the app to get my points and I am not connected to any internet, it just updates when it can connect.

Red Arrow · 19-05-2016, 10:02

Does having NFC turned on 24/7 affect the battery life much?

Grayburn · 19-05-2016, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet.

This technology has got me home a few times due to me leaving my wallet in my desk drawer at work so I disagree.

Cloudane · 19-05-2016, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealady

So not connected t the method of payment then?

Not yet. You have to open the app and scan the barcode so it's basically like the club card app or stocard.

However I've seen it mentioned that someone found reference to loyalty cards being tied to NFC in the latest app code, so it's coming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian The Dog

??? Wow how the world has changed. Mostly I always take both but as money is always more important than reading what my facebook friends are saying they had for breakfast

Woo, terrible stereotyping of both smartphones and social media in one go! Nice one!

If you don't feel there's a need for it or advantage to it, good for you, don't use it. Don't pee in the pool for everyone else

Red Arrow · 19-05-2016, 11:29

Tried it at Tesco just now, got a bit confused. Attempted it with the screen off, nothing happened. Screen on but still locked, nothing happened.

I then unlocked the phone and tried to pay, suddenly the pattern lock screen appeared again for a second, the phone beeped and the till said the payment was successful.

I'm not sure if perhaps holding it with the screen on but locked confused it or I was too quick and the next stage was for the pattern lock to appear.

It's a nice thing to have, but until it accepts AMEX I won't be using it much. I always try and use AMEX to get double Avios points.

jonmorris · 19-05-2016, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayburn

This technology has got me home a few times due to me leaving my wallet in my desk drawer at work so I disagree.

I didn't say it wouldn't help in such situations, just that it isn't designed for that purpose.

jonmorris · 19-05-2016, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Arrow

I'm not sure if perhaps holding it with the screen on but locked confused it or I was too quick and the next stage was for the pattern lock to appear.

It's a nice thing to have, but until it accepts AMEX I won't be using it much. I always try and use AMEX to get double Avios points.

The phone has to be unlocked. The only thing is the app itself doesn't need to be loaded/on screen.

There's a user guide in the app that explains the procedure.

Red Arrow · 19-05-2016, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

The phone has to be unlocked. The only thing is the app itself doesn't need to be loaded/on screen.

There's a user guide in the app that explains the procedure.

Thanks Jon, wonder why it displayed the pattern lock screen for a second then once it was unlocked.

Might give it another go next time at Tesco.

Decepticons1 · 19-05-2016, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Arrow

Thanks Jon, wonder why it displayed the pattern lock screen for a second then once it was unlocked.

Might give it another go next time at Tesco.

I just installed androidpay, it did say that your bank may request a pattern/pin lock.

Mite_Janev · 19-05-2016, 14:25

hi guys can anybody tell me can i be able to pay with Android pay if the phone doesnt have NFC chip
like tap and pay function ?

mossy2103 · 19-05-2016, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet.

Not necessarily designed for, but can be used by ....

Quote:

What next? Your smartwatch means you don't need to worry about remembering your phone?

If you forget your keys, no matter as you'll have a smart lock that can be opened with your phone.

That's how some people are going, no doubt about that.

18-05-2016, 21:00	#151
lamby Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 3,332	How do loyalty cards work?

18-05-2016, 21:20	#152
tealady Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: colchester Posts: 15,352	Quote: Originally Posted by lamby How do loyalty cards work? How do they work at the moment?

18-05-2016, 21:41	#153
lamby Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 3,332	Quote: Originally Posted by tealady How do they work at the moment? Normally Tesco is barcode scanned or swiped.

18-05-2016, 21:50	#154
Red Arrow Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 10,688	I read something that seemed to imply if you used Android Pay at Tesco for example and had your Clubcard on the Pay app, it will somehow reward you the points. Perhaps Android Pay checks when making a purchase and tells the retailer to reward the points. But in my mind that would require all retailers to rework some of the code on the tills/payment system to work with that. I doubt they've all done this.

18-05-2016, 21:51	#155
tealady Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: colchester Posts: 15,352	Quote: Originally Posted by lamby Normally Tesco is barcode scanned or swiped. So not connected t the method of payment then?

18-05-2016, 21:53	#156
Brian The Dog Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,090	Quote: Originally Posted by Aye Up The system isn't easy to setup due to the way the transactions are secured. When using your card for a contactless purchase its no different to chip and pin (save not entering a pin), the process is the same. For Android and Apple Pay we know unique auth codes are used once in every transaction, thats where the complication lies. Why does it have to be that way? As I said earlier, I installed an app that reads contactless cards and my Barclays Debit card readily coughed up the card number and expiry date; if that is all that is needed to take money from my bank account and Barclays are happy with that, why do we even need Android Pay as all you need is a simple app where you insert your card number and expiry date and it just sends that to the `terminal like a contactless card does? Call it a contactless card emulator if you wish, but if Barclays are happy with the security on contactless transactions (or lack of it) then why the need for anything more complex?

18-05-2016, 21:53	#157
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	The reason handset makers want you to leave Wifi and BT on is for things such as loyalty cards. Is that not one of the intents of iBeacon? And Google Face Pay sounds a spookier version of the user tracking scenarios BT and Wifi offer.

18-05-2016, 22:15	#158
Brian The Dog Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,090	Quote: Originally Posted by mossy2103 Maybe you don't always have your credit cards with you, but will probably have your phone. ??? Wow how the world has changed. Mostly I always take both but as money is always more important than reading what my facebook friends are saying they had for breakfast, then my wallet with my card and/or cash takes priority over remembering to take my phone! Plus as a debit card is as thin as anything, if would fit nicely inside most phone cases and so no need for a wallet. Hey, if your contactless debit card is close enough to the surface of the phone case you could pay just by holding your phone next to the terminal: Who needs Android pay?

18-05-2016, 22:20	#159
kidspud Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 11,501	Quote: Originally Posted by alanwarwic The reason handset makers want you to leave Wifi and BT on is for things such as loyalty cards. Is that not one of the intents of iBeacon? And Google Face Pay sounds a spookier version of the user tracking scenarios BT and Wifi offer. In Apple Pay, neither wifi or BT are needed. Even if you use loyalty cards it will update later if wifi is off.

19-05-2016, 07:10	#160
mossy2103 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 68,710	Quote: Originally Posted by Brian The Dog ??? Wow how the world has changed. Mostly I always take both but as money is always more important than reading what my facebook friends are saying they had for breakfast, then my wallet with my card and/or cash takes priority over remembering to take my phone! Plus as a debit card is as thin as anything, if would fit nicely inside most phone cases and so no need for a wallet. Hey, if your contactless debit card is close enough to the surface of the phone case you could pay just by holding your phone next to the terminal: Who needs Android pay? Two points: 1) What if you go out and forget your credit cards (but have your phone)? I have done this on occasion. 2) With your contactless credit card in your phone case, what if you use a terminal that does not accept contactless cards? You need to take out your card and some cases are very fiddly (risking your phone dropping to the floor whilst you juggle with case and card). It might be ideal for you, but maybe not for other people.

19-05-2016, 07:13	#161
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet. What next? Your smartwatch means you don't need to worry about remembering your phone? If you forget your keys, no matter as you'll have a smart lock that can be opened with your phone. Like Apple Pay, Android Pay will be useful at times but I won't leave my ordinary card at home. I'll just choose what to use at the time.

19-05-2016, 07:58	#162
kidspud Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 11,501	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet. What next? Your smartwatch means you don't need to worry about remembering your phone? If you forget your keys, no matter as you'll have a smart lock that can be opened with your phone. Like Apple Pay, Android Pay will be useful at times but I won't leave my ordinary card at home. I'll just choose what to use at the time. Agreed. I would like to see the introduction of loyalty cards in the uk. I have a m&s, boots and nectar card and if I could get rid of them it would be great.

19-05-2016, 09:18	#163
Mark in Essex Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,644	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet. What next? Your smartwatch means you don't need to worry about remembering your phone? If you forget your keys, no matter as you'll have a smart lock that can be opened with your phone. Like Apple Pay, Android Pay will be useful at times but I won't leave my ordinary card at home. I'll just choose what to use at the time. Sometimes I don't forget my wallet - sometimes I may just pop out to the gym thinking "I don't need to buy anything" and my wife will text me to ask to pick up some milk/bread on the way home or if I go out for a run and go further than normal and decide I would like a drink. Why would people take the risk of loosing their whole wallet - if anything all you need is 1 debit card (makes me laugh when my friend goes abroad on holiday and has his library card with him in his wallet. I'd like to not even have to carry the phone around with me (and it's not for checking any social media as I don't do that) - it's more for music, the Internet (if I need it) and of course communication. I don't want to rely on it totally - just a backup for one of those moments I probably only get 5 or 6 times a year. The only thing I don't like about contactless payment is that I was told it takes a few more days for the money to come out of your bank account?

19-05-2016, 09:44	#164
Red Arrow Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 10,688	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark in Essex Sometimes I don't forget my wallet - sometimes I may just pop out to the gym thinking "I don't need to buy anything" and my wife will text me to ask to pick up some milk/bread on the way home or if I go out for a run and go further than normal and decide I would like a drink. Why would people take the risk of loosing their whole wallet - if anything all you need is 1 debit card (makes me laugh when my friend goes abroad on holiday and has his library card with him in his wallet. I'd like to not even have to carry the phone around with me (and it's not for checking any social media as I don't do that) - it's more for music, the Internet (if I need it) and of course communication. I don't want to rely on it totally - just a backup for one of those moments I probably only get 5 or 6 times a year. The only thing I don't like about contactless payment is that I was told it takes a few more days for the money to come out of your bank account? Other half is always forgetting her purse so I have to go find her in town to lend her my contactless card. Now with this she at least has her phone as a backup. Plus also her credit card company is refusing to issue out contactless cards to her, saying they will only do so once the current ones expire. Drives her up the wall as you now almost get a funny look in London when having to enter your PIN for a small transaction So this will help her a lot.

19-05-2016, 09:55	#165
Decepticons1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 456	Well, my Costa loyalty card doesn't work properly and have been using the app to get my points and I am not connected to any internet, it just updates when it can connect.

19-05-2016, 10:02	#166
Red Arrow Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 10,688	Does having NFC turned on 24/7 affect the battery life much?

19-05-2016, 10:18	#167
Grayburn Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 225	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet. This technology has got me home a few times due to me leaving my wallet in my desk drawer at work so I disagree.

19-05-2016, 10:43	#168
Cloudane Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 870	Quote: Originally Posted by tealady So not connected t the method of payment then? Not yet. You have to open the app and scan the barcode so it's basically like the club card app or stocard. However I've seen it mentioned that someone found reference to loyalty cards being tied to NFC in the latest app code, so it's coming. Quote: Originally Posted by Brian The Dog ??? Wow how the world has changed. Mostly I always take both but as money is always more important than reading what my facebook friends are saying they had for breakfast Woo, terrible stereotyping of both smartphones and social media in one go! Nice one! If you don't feel there's a need for it or advantage to it, good for you, don't use it. Don't pee in the pool for everyone else

19-05-2016, 11:29	#169
Red Arrow Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 10,688	Tried it at Tesco just now, got a bit confused. Attempted it with the screen off, nothing happened. Screen on but still locked, nothing happened. I then unlocked the phone and tried to pay, suddenly the pattern lock screen appeared again for a second, the phone beeped and the till said the payment was successful. I'm not sure if perhaps holding it with the screen on but locked confused it or I was too quick and the next stage was for the pattern lock to appear. It's a nice thing to have, but until it accepts AMEX I won't be using it much. I always try and use AMEX to get double Avios points.

19-05-2016, 11:33	#170
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by Grayburn This technology has got me home a few times due to me leaving my wallet in my desk drawer at work so I disagree. I didn't say it wouldn't help in such situations, just that it isn't designed for that purpose.

DS Forums

Android Pay to Rival Apple Pay in the UK Next Month

19-05-2016, 11:35	#171
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by Red Arrow I'm not sure if perhaps holding it with the screen on but locked confused it or I was too quick and the next stage was for the pattern lock to appear. It's a nice thing to have, but until it accepts AMEX I won't be using it much. I always try and use AMEX to get double Avios points. The phone has to be unlocked. The only thing is the app itself doesn't need to be loaded/on screen. There's a user guide in the app that explains the procedure.

19-05-2016, 11:39	#172
Red Arrow Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 10,688	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris The phone has to be unlocked. The only thing is the app itself doesn't need to be loaded/on screen. There's a user guide in the app that explains the procedure. Thanks Jon, wonder why it displayed the pattern lock screen for a second then once it was unlocked. Might give it another go next time at Tesco.

19-05-2016, 13:04	#173
Decepticons1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 456	Quote: Originally Posted by Red Arrow Thanks Jon, wonder why it displayed the pattern lock screen for a second then once it was unlocked. Might give it another go next time at Tesco. I just installed androidpay, it did say that your bank may request a pattern/pin lock.

19-05-2016, 14:25	#174
Mite_Janev Forum Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1	hi guys can anybody tell me can i be able to pay with Android pay if the phone doesnt have NFC chip like tap and pay function ?

19-05-2016, 14:34	#175
mossy2103 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 68,710	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris I am not sure any of this technology is designed for people who forget their wallet. Not necessarily designed for, but can be used by .... Quote: What next? Your smartwatch means you don't need to worry about remembering your phone? If you forget your keys, no matter as you'll have a smart lock that can be opened with your phone. That's how some people are going, no doubt about that.