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Football Neutrals Thread - Part 2 |
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#5001 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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A name that I think is unlucky to have missed out is Antonio from West Ham, as well as his team mate Noble.
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#5002 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,516
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Quote:
I have said that this tournament is one too early for Rashford, and that really he should not even be considered for this one (I think next year the Under 21's have a tournament, that would be best for him I think).
But since he is now included in the 26, then we have to deal with the situation as it is, and he has done well this season, and shown that he can keep himself fit, and managers can rely on him in that sense. You have to be able to have faith as a manager that whomever you pick will be able to play, with Wilshire and Sturridge there are questions about their fitness record. I would not take Wilshire as he has just not (a) done anything since he returned to the Arsenal side road warrant his inclusion ahead of other players, and (b) I am not sure where you would play him with the other players in the squad. Is he a defensive player like Dier, or an attack minded one who is likely to get us a goal like Ali? I think the answer is no to both of them, so really I don't see where he fits in. From that squad of players, my starting eleven would be something like this :- Hart Clyne Smalling Cahill Rose Dier Henderson Ali Rooney Kane Vardy |
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#5003 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 10,040
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Quote:
Is he a defensive player like Dier, or an attack minded one who is likely to get us a goal like Ali? I think the answer is no to both of them, so really I don't see where he fits in.
He can do both, not neither. If he could perform neither role, then he wouldn't be a midfield player for a top Premier League team, would he? |
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#5004 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 56,270
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So when do three get dropped from the 26
Central defence isn't good enough for the later stages though that's where it will fall down |
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#5005 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,843
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I read the deadline is May 30th so some time after the Australia friendly.
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#5006 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
Looks like shoehorning Rooney into the side.
How would you go about constructing a team from that squad? |
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#5007 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,843
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'I don't see where Wilshere fits in'
'I thought Rooney should be in the team somewhere' This is what we're dealing with. |
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#5008 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
Hilarious.
He can do both, not neither. If he could perform neither role, then he wouldn't be a midfield player for a top Premier League team, would he? You think that he is a good tackler of players similar to Dier?? And please point me to his great goalscoring form like Ali, as I really do not see him having such a great record in that department. |
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#5009 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
'I don't see where Wilshere fits in'
'I thought Rooney should be in the team somewhere' This is what we're dealing with. |
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#5010 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 10,040
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Quote:
Really??
You think that he is a good tackler of players similar to Dier?? And please point me to his great goalscoring form like Ali, as I really do not see him having such a great record in that department. Is Pirlo a tough-tackling midfield player? Does he score boatloads of goals? How about Xavi? Carrick does neither, but he's been a top player. Watch Wishere play, and if you know anything about football, you'll see what he offers. |
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#5011 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,216
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Rooney's place is firmly on the bench. The team should look a little more like this:
Hart Clyne Smalling Cahill Rose Dier Henderson Lallana Alli Vardy Kane Feel free to swap Henderson for Wilshere, Milner for Lallana or Forster for Hart. |
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#5012 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
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Quote:
Rooney's place is firmly on the bench. The team should look a little more like this:
Hart Clyne Smalling Cahill Rose Dier Henderson Lallana Alli Vardy Kane Feel free to swap Henderson for Wilshere, Milner for Lallana or Forster for Hart. |
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#5013 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
Do we really have to get this basic?
Is Pirlo a tough-tackling midfield player? Does he score boatloads of goals? How about Xavi? Carrick does neither, but he's been a top player. Watch Wishere play, and if you know anything about football, you'll see what he offers. Once he gets a consistent run of games (if that is possible), then we will be more able to judge him. The players that you mentioned, all played regular games, and plenty of them, and influenced big games, when was the last time that could be said about Wilshire? How often does he pull the strings of games like they have on a consistently high basis? So you might think he is like them, but he has done nothing regularly to be put in the same bracket as those players. |
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#5014 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
Regardless of what anyone here thinks, Rooney starts. Get used to it.
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#5015 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,216
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Quote:
Regardless of what anyone here thinks, Rooney starts. Get used to it.
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#5016 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,775
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For what it's worth (which is nothing)
Hart Clyne, Stones, Smalling, Bertrand Dier, Wilshere, Alli Lallana/Sterling Kane Vardy |
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#5017 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,843
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Quote:
It is easy enough to be critical, what would be your starting eleven then?
You don't like Jack Wilshere and you do like Wayne Rooney, and that's fine. Just stop pretending that's not the case. |
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#5018 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 56,270
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Rooney should not start but he will, problem is that the team has to fall in with rooneys game to accommodate him.
Therefore expect the old tournament failings to resurface |
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#5019 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
The reason it's easy to be critical because you don't know where Wilshere would fit in so he'd be out, and you don't know where Rooney would fit in but he's in because you just think he should be. You do this kind of thing at every turn.
You don't like Jack Wilshere and you do like Wayne Rooney, and that's fine. Just drop the obvious pretence. ![]() Wilshire has not played often enough in recent years to be deserving of a call up, yes he has played in recent games for Arsenal, but is that Reay enough to warrant a call up over say Noble who has been consistently good throughout this whole season? This has got nothing to do with my personal like or dislike of Rooney or Wilshere, and far more to do with seeing g what players have actually done to warrant possible inclusions in the squad. |
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#5020 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 10,040
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It depends on how ambitious you are.
Want average 'try-hards' in your team? Pick Noble. Want someone with some real class, and the potential to actually make things happen? Pick Wishere. |
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#5021 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,843
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Deja vu.
Jack Wilshere's a better football player than Mark Noble, regardless of who's played more. First team players tend to return to the first team when they come back from injury, especially players who are known quantities like Jack Wilshere. An attack-minded player only counts on goal record, an international callup only counts on how many club games played. As an example, you mistrust Ozil based on a glance at his goalscoring record and never seeing him kick a ball hard despite him creating more chances than almost every other player around. Your understand of football is incredibly binary and impossibly frustrating. |
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#5022 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,398
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Agree with post above about Noble... Decent season, not international class.
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#5023 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
Deja vu.
Jack Wilshere's a better football player than Mark Noble, regardless of who's played more. First team players tend to return to the first team when they come back from injury, especially players who are known quantities like Jack Wilshere. An attack-minded player only counts on goal record, an international callup only counts on how many club games played. Your understand of football is incredibly binary and impossibly frustrating. Can he dominate games like Pirlo or Xavi, since they have been mentioned in relation to him? If so, when has he last shown this to be true? They have shown it on multiple occasions, (okay less so now with Pirlo in New York) and in big games, has Wilshire got a pedigree for doing this? An international call up should be based on how well a player has been playing, not on amount of games played, not what you think that I said. |
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#5024 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
It depends on how ambitious you are.
Want average 'try-hards' in your team? Pick Noble. Want someone with some real class, and the potential to actually make things happen? Pick Wishere. Can you put forward games in which has done just that on a consistent basis? A player cannot just be potential, surely at some stage, that potential, actually has to be shown? |
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#5025 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,216
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Say what you want about Wilshere, but Noble is bang average.
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