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Football Neutrals Thread - Part 2 |
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#5051 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Quote:
I was talking for club level more than international level, but thanks for the link.
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#5052 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Quote:
Out of interest, Jim and Celesti, at what point would you say that Wilshere should not be considered for England? How much time should a player be able to miss, in this case, pretty much a whole season, and then get back into the squad?
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#5053 |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Under Your Bed
Posts: 5,488
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Hopefully Roy and his staff will be able to see enough between now and the deadline to assess whether Wilshere is fit enough to gamble on. That's the whole point of this period.
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#5054 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 10,039
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Quote:
Out of interest, Jim and Celesti, at what point would you say that Wilshere should not be considered for England? How much time should a player be able to miss, in this case, pretty much a whole season, and then get back into the squad?
I think that Wilshere is significantly better than the other options to be worth taking. Put it this way, if Messi was injured for 2 years, how long after his return to fitness would Argentina wait before picking him? *Disclaimer: I'm obviously not comparing Wilshere to Messi. |
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#5055 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,397
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If he's considered not fit enough by the end of May, that's it. If an established player comes back from injury at their club they get back in the team as soon as possible, same should apply to internationals. It's a gamble absolutely worth taking as teams very rarely use the whole squad at a tournament anyway.
I just don't rate Wilshere as much as you guys do I suppose in terms of the necessity for him to be selected without having recently done anything.... Game of opinions! |
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#5056 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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If he has played for Arsenal at all then he is physically fit so I don't see it as a massive risk in that respect. Hodgson likes him and will stand or fall by his decisions so he might as well take the guys he likes with him.
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#5057 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,397
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Quote:
I don't think that there's a set answer for that. It'll depend on how important the player is, how fit he is at any given time, whether the injuries have taken their toll on things like pace, etc.
I think that Wilshere is significantly better than the other options to be worth taking. Put it this way, if Messi was injured for 2 years, how long after his return to fitness would Argentina wait before picking him? *Disclaimer: I'm obviously not comparing Wilshere to Messi. |
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#5058 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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Quote:
I don't think that there's a set answer for that. It'll depend on how important the player is, how fit he is at any given time, whether the injuries have taken their toll on things like pace, etc.
I think that Wilshere is significantly better than the other options to be worth taking. Put it this way, if Messi was injured for 2 years, how long after his return to fitness would Argentina wait before picking him? *Disclaimer: I'm obviously not comparing Wilshere to Messi. |
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#5059 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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Quote:
I agree that the 23 man squad means that we can comfortably afford a couple of risky picks.
I just don't rate Wilshere as much as you guys do I suppose in terms of the necessity for him to be selected without having recently done anything.... Game of opinions! |
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#5060 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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I'm more concerned with whether Wilshire can last the distance tournament wise.
Doesn't matter how good he is if he hobbles off early doors. |
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#5061 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
If he has played for Arsenal at all then he is physically fit so I don't see it as a massive risk in that respect. Hodgson likes him and will stand or fall by his decisions so he might as well take the guys he likes with him.
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#5062 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
I agree that the 23 man squad means that we can comfortably afford a couple of risky picks.
I just don't rate Wilshere as much as you guys do I suppose in terms of the necessity for him to be selected without having recently done anything.... Game of opinions! |
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#5063 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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Don't try and corral up the posse. There are over 62000 reasons you get told you know nothing about football.
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#5064 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Don't try and corral up the posse. There are over 62000 reasons you get told you know nothing about football.
I do know about football, just because I question the validity of players being involved at an international tournament doesn't change that. |
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#5065 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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It's not just that, as I already allude to in the post that you just quoted.
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#5066 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
It's not just that, as I already allude to in the post that you just quoted.
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#5067 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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People plead not guilty but still get convicted thanks to overwhelming evidence.
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#5068 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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People plead not guilty but still get convicted thanks to overwhelming evidence.
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#5069 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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References to managers winning championships involve them being in the English second tier
Mesut Ozil isn't good because he doesn't kick the ball very hard Jurgen Klopp can't manage and wave his arms around at the same time Players and managers will never join clubs who already have players and managers Etc Etc I'm dead wrong. |
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#5070 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,213
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Wilshere's injury record makes him look better than he actually is. everyone fantasises about what he would do if he could just stay fit, but IMO he's never shown anything to suggest he's anything more than an above-average player in a greatly underwhelming team. he's been talked about and highly/over-rated for about 7 or 8 years now, and I could probably name 100 players in world football that have emerged and outperformed him since then.
having 30 England caps just means you have 30 England caps btw, it isn't irrefutable proof of quality. you simply have to be English and playing for a club in the Top 10 these days to get a look in. Milner has 55 caps, and yet is the very personification of a basic footballer. |
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#5071 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
References to managers winning championships involve them being in the English second tier
Mesut Ozil isn't good because he doesn't kick the ball very hard Jurgen Klopp can't manage and wave his arms around at the same time Players and managers will never join clubs who already have players and managers Etc Etc I'm dead wrong. |
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#5072 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
Wilshere's injury record makes him look better than he actually is. everyone fantasises about what he would do if he could just stay fit, but IMO he's never shown anything to suggest he's anything more than an above-average player in a greatly underwhelming team. he's been talked about and highly/over-rated for about 7 or 8 years now, and I could probably name 100 players in world football that have emerged and outperformed him since then.
having 30 England caps just means you have 30 England caps btw, it isn't irrefutable proof of quality. you simply have to be English and playing for a club in the Top 10 these days to get a look in. Milner has 55 caps, and yet is the very personification of a basic footballer. |
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#5073 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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Quote:
having 30 England caps just means you have 30 England caps btw, it isn't irrefutable proof of quality. you simply have to be English and playing for a club in the Top 10 these days to get a look in. Milner has 55 caps, and yet is the very personification of a basic footballer.
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#5074 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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Yes you are dead wrong, taking specific examples totally out of context to try and prove your point, does far more to harm you then myself.
Unedited quote: Quote:
Sorry, but Ozil is not someone that will take a good team onto that next level.
He is no way near good enough, consistently, he is just too flaky, I don't think that I have ever seen him hit a ball hard before, it just seems to be all flicks, and outside of the boot stuff. His goalscoring record for an attacking player, and someone who cost as much as he did is also rubbish, he should be getting far more than he does for that price. He was a bad buy by Wenger, especially at the price they paid for him. Quote:
I disagree. Ozil is a playmaker, but Arsenal don't use him properly. he needs movement ahead of him to be effective, but there are too many cooks there all wanting to play behind the ball rather than ahead of it. you put someone like Higuain in that Arsenal lineup, and it's a different story. Ozil's not without his faults - I think he hides/plays too safe at times, but he is a brilliant footballer.
to claim it's easy to look good at Real is completely absurd btw Quote:
So a playmaker is not expected to score goals is he? Or at least chip in with his fair share? Ozil just doesn't do enough for me in any area, for me to consider him in the top bracket of players, certainly not in the bracket that Arsenal signed him in (£40 million plus wasn't it?).
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Ozil has as many goals in his career to date as Iniesta, more assists, and creates more chances too. Iniesta also doesn't kick very hard. by your logic, he was/is pretty unfit for purpose too, wouldn't you say?
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Inestia is a completely different sort of player, to what Ozil is supposed to be, so why the comparison?
I can see that we are not going to agree on this topic, I don't really rate Ozil, and you do, fair enough, I see no harm in having different opinions, so I will just let this lie, rather than going round and round in circles. |
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#5075 |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 43,100
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Quote:
Thank you for writing this, it is something that I am in full agreement with.
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