It's very bizarre that Van Gaal has been so dreadful. I suppose the idea of bringing him in was to have a solid, experienced manager to stabilise the side post-Moyes and hand over a settled and successful squad to the next long-term manager. But he's been as bad as Moyes really. Just utterly moribund football, even after spending an absolute fortune.
Football Neutrals Thread - Part 2
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Originally Posted by FMKK:
“It's very bizarre that Van Gaal has been so dreadful. I suppose the idea of bringing him in was to have a solid, experienced manager to stabilise the side post-Moyes and hand over a settled and successful squad to the next long-term manager. But he's been as bad as Moyes really. Just utterly moribund football, even after spending an absolute fortune.”
“It's very bizarre that Van Gaal has been so dreadful. I suppose the idea of bringing him in was to have a solid, experienced manager to stabilise the side post-Moyes and hand over a settled and successful squad to the next long-term manager. But he's been as bad as Moyes really. Just utterly moribund football, even after spending an absolute fortune.”
You're doing an awful dis-service to Moyes there. This season is considerably worse than 2013/14 tbh
Originally Posted by NiteOwl12:
“Difficult to think of a United team over the past few decades who would not have been determined to at least win on the night.”
“Difficult to think of a United team over the past few decades who would not have been determined to at least win on the night.”
It's also difficult to think of a United team who surrendered to their opponents as meekly as this one did in the second half.
No doubt it was a tall order to get back in the tie after the Liverpool goal but you didn't expect every single United player to play as though they lost every ounce of belief and conviction they had.
To have ended up rolling over to their most fervent rivals is something United fans will take a while to get out of their system.
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“You're doing an awful dis-service to Moyes there. This season is considerably worse than 2013/14 tbh”
“You're doing an awful dis-service to Moyes there. This season is considerably worse than 2013/14 tbh”
Wow, that bad?
It's kinda seemed like much of a muchness for the last three seasons imo, other than one decent run last season to get 4th place.
As some had/have it, Giggs is supposed to have been learning from the great manager, preparing to takeover. Now I wonder if he will regarded as damaged by association with a pretty disastrous two years, at the end of which it is difficult to point to any substantial improvement on the field.
Originally Posted by NiteOwl12:
“As some had/have it, Giggs is supposed to have been learning from the great manager, preparing to takeover. Now I wonder if he will regarded as damaged by association with a pretty disastrous two years, at the end of which it is difficult to point to any substantial improvement on the field.”
“As some had/have it, Giggs is supposed to have been learning from the great manager, preparing to takeover. Now I wonder if he will regarded as damaged by association with a pretty disastrous two years, at the end of which it is difficult to point to any substantial improvement on the field.”
Giggs and Gary Neville - dream team ?
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“
It's kinda seemed like much of a muchness for the last three seasons imo, other than one decent run last season to get 4th place.”
“
It's kinda seemed like much of a muchness for the last three seasons imo, other than one decent run last season to get 4th place.”
Very true
Dare I say it, but I actually felt United were at times (whisper it) unlucky in the Moyes season
Bear in mind they were decent in europe (bar the Olympiakos first leg fiasco) and the league was stronger that year than now (liverpool randomly becoming a juggernaut, City rediscovering 2012 form, Chelsea making strides under Mourinho)Last season they had a random run of form in March but were awful apart from that. Van Gaal pretty much got all the luck Moyes didn't- that 9 points in November stands out against Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton. They were probably a fit Liverpool goalscorer away from missing out on top 4 again. And no European distractions
This season has been awful and they can even consider themselves lucky they are somehow as high as 6th. Worryingly they really look like they are going nowhere fast
When comparing this season to 2014 it's important to remember the ridiculous amount LvG has spent.
Maybe I'm being a little biased though in favour of Moyes, he was a genuine likeable chap while LvG is a complete spoofer
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Very true
Dare I say it, but I actually felt United were at times (whisper it) unlucky in the Moyes season Bear in mind they were decent in europe (bar the Olympiakos first leg fiasco) and the league was stronger that year than now (liverpool randomly becoming a juggernaut, City rediscovering 2012 form, Chelsea making strides under Mourinho)
Last season they had a random run of form in March but were awful apart from that. Van Gaal pretty much got all the luck Moyes didn't- that 9 points in November stands out against Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton. They were probably a fit Liverpool goalscorer away from missing out on top 4 again. And no European distractions
This season has been awful and they can even consider themselves lucky they are somehow as high as 6th. Worryingly they really look like they are going nowhere fast
When comparing this season to 2014 it's important to remember the ridiculous amount LvG has spent.
Maybe I'm being a little biased though in favour of Moyes, he was a genuine likeable chap while LvG is a complete spoofer”
“Very true
Dare I say it, but I actually felt United were at times (whisper it) unlucky in the Moyes season
Bear in mind they were decent in europe (bar the Olympiakos first leg fiasco) and the league was stronger that year than now (liverpool randomly becoming a juggernaut, City rediscovering 2012 form, Chelsea making strides under Mourinho)Last season they had a random run of form in March but were awful apart from that. Van Gaal pretty much got all the luck Moyes didn't- that 9 points in November stands out against Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton. They were probably a fit Liverpool goalscorer away from missing out on top 4 again. And no European distractions
This season has been awful and they can even consider themselves lucky they are somehow as high as 6th. Worryingly they really look like they are going nowhere fast
When comparing this season to 2014 it's important to remember the ridiculous amount LvG has spent.
Maybe I'm being a little biased though in favour of Moyes, he was a genuine likeable chap while LvG is a complete spoofer”
You are being biased. Moyes was dreadful and Van Gaal failing doesn't make Moyes a better Man Utd manager retrospectively.
The two biggest differences have been that Moyes not spending is used as a defence of his time in charge compared to Van Gaal but truth is Moyes not spending is one of the reasons he failed. The money was there and he dithered and ****ed around instead of bringing in a couple of top level players. Van Gaal on the other hand has brought in plenty of good players and then managed to turn them into crap. The plus point for United is that on the whole they are actually decent players and I fully expect them to do well under a manager that doesn't isn't on them playing with one hand tied behind their back and their laces tied together. Van Gaal has left some decent raw materials whilst Moyes took the team apart.
The other difference is that Van Gaal has had a plan which didn't work whilst Moyes had no plan. Moyes didn't play the same team twice and had no more of a clue at the end than he did at the start. Van Gaal at least had a way of playing and a plan for how to set the team up - turns out it was a dreadful plan and one totally unsuited to Man Utd and the PL but id rather have a plan fail then no plan at all.
Im not defending Van Gaal - this season has been a disaster and his biggest mistakes have been not replacing Di Maria and Falcao with players of similar stature. Falcao was finished as it turned out but he was signed in the hope he was still one of the best strikers in the world - again that was the plan whilst Di Maria was going to be the playmaker - if he was allowed to play. If we had replaced these two positions with two player of equal standing then I think we would have had a better chance - but we didn't and Van Gaal is responsible for that and must pay the price for it. The football is dreadful and he hasn't built at all on last season acceptable season but lets not pretend this somehow vindicates the disaster that was EVERYTHING about David Moyes.
Van Gaal's United have been so abject this season that statistical comparisons with the Moyes' debacle have been easily available - I found one myself some time ago. But at no point has Van Gaal conveyed the impression of a rabbit in the headlights, of modelling himself on that other absurd appointment, Hodgson at Liverpool. Van Gaal has been a huge disappointment, while Moyes fulfilled all anyone could have reasonably expected from his CV; that is, from a man with no experience of winning cups in Europe, no experience of winning the premier league or its equivalent, no experience of even regularly beating the best teams in the premier league and no experience of managing a squad of honours winning players and of handling the sort of media attention and budget that comes with a club of United's stature. As I say, Moyes did all that could be expected of him. Van Gaal, on the other hand, has probably had the worst few years of his mature managerial career and will leave United a diminished figure.
Originally Posted by Eddie hunter:
“You are being biased. Moyes was dreadful and Van Gaal failing doesn't make Moyes a better Man Utd manager retrospectively.
The two biggest differences have been that Moyes not spending is used as a defence of his time in charge compared to Van Gaal but truth is Moyes not spending is one of the reasons he failed. The money was there and he dithered and ****ed around instead of bringing in a couple of top level players. Van Gaal on the other hand has brought in plenty of good players and then managed to turn them into crap. The plus point for United is that on the whole they are actually decent players and I fully expect them to do well under a manager that doesn't isn't on them playing with one hand tied behind their back and their laces tied together. Van Gaal has left some decent raw materials whilst Moyes took the team apart.
The other difference is that Van Gaal has had a plan which didn't work whilst Moyes had no plan. Moyes didn't play the same team twice and had no more of a clue at the end than he did at the start. Van Gaal at least had a way of playing and a plan for how to set the team up - turns out it was a dreadful plan and one totally unsuited to Man Utd and the PL but id rather have a plan fail then no plan at all.
Im not defending Van Gaal - this season has been a disaster and his biggest mistakes have been not replacing Di Maria and Falcao with players of similar stature. Falcao was finished as it turned out but he was signed in the hope he was still one of the best strikers in the world - again that was the plan whilst Di Maria was going to be the playmaker - if he was allowed to play. If we had replaced these two positions with two player of equal standing then I think we would have had a better chance - but we didn't and Van Gaal is responsible for that and must pay the price for it. The football is dreadful and he hasn't built at all on last season acceptable season but lets not pretend this somehow vindicates the disaster that was EVERYTHING about David Moyes.”
“You are being biased. Moyes was dreadful and Van Gaal failing doesn't make Moyes a better Man Utd manager retrospectively.
The two biggest differences have been that Moyes not spending is used as a defence of his time in charge compared to Van Gaal but truth is Moyes not spending is one of the reasons he failed. The money was there and he dithered and ****ed around instead of bringing in a couple of top level players. Van Gaal on the other hand has brought in plenty of good players and then managed to turn them into crap. The plus point for United is that on the whole they are actually decent players and I fully expect them to do well under a manager that doesn't isn't on them playing with one hand tied behind their back and their laces tied together. Van Gaal has left some decent raw materials whilst Moyes took the team apart.
The other difference is that Van Gaal has had a plan which didn't work whilst Moyes had no plan. Moyes didn't play the same team twice and had no more of a clue at the end than he did at the start. Van Gaal at least had a way of playing and a plan for how to set the team up - turns out it was a dreadful plan and one totally unsuited to Man Utd and the PL but id rather have a plan fail then no plan at all.
Im not defending Van Gaal - this season has been a disaster and his biggest mistakes have been not replacing Di Maria and Falcao with players of similar stature. Falcao was finished as it turned out but he was signed in the hope he was still one of the best strikers in the world - again that was the plan whilst Di Maria was going to be the playmaker - if he was allowed to play. If we had replaced these two positions with two player of equal standing then I think we would have had a better chance - but we didn't and Van Gaal is responsible for that and must pay the price for it. The football is dreadful and he hasn't built at all on last season acceptable season but lets not pretend this somehow vindicates the disaster that was EVERYTHING about David Moyes.”
Simply put both were failures, and we have gone backwards massively since Sir Alex last lifted the Premier League title with us, and moved upstairs after that most strange of strange games at West Brom.
Both Moyes and LvG have been huge failures of epic proportions, despite us spending a fortune on players.
It really does show how far we have sunk when we are discussing which manager somehow was worse for us.
Neither manager will be remembered fondly by the fans, so it is all rather futile to try and find positives in either reign, as whilst there might be one or two small ones, the overall standing of both in the pantheon of our managers, is at the bottom.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Simply put both were failures, and we have gone backwards massively since Sir Alex last lifted the Premier League title with us, and moved upstairs after that most strange of strange games at West Brom.
Both Moyes and LvG have been huge failures of epic proportions, despite us spending a fortune on players.
It really does show how far we have sunk when we are discussing which manager somehow was worse for us.
Neither manager will be remembered fondly by the fans, so it is all rather futile to try and find positives in either reign, as whilst there might be one or two small ones, the overall standing of both in the pantheon of our managers, is at the bottom.”
“Simply put both were failures, and we have gone backwards massively since Sir Alex last lifted the Premier League title with us, and moved upstairs after that most strange of strange games at West Brom.
Both Moyes and LvG have been huge failures of epic proportions, despite us spending a fortune on players.
It really does show how far we have sunk when we are discussing which manager somehow was worse for us.
Neither manager will be remembered fondly by the fans, so it is all rather futile to try and find positives in either reign, as whilst there might be one or two small ones, the overall standing of both in the pantheon of our managers, is at the bottom.”
The biggest problem I had with Moyes was his reluctance to take responsibility for failure. It seemed to be everyone else's fault but his.
Swans v Villa is the sat night game. Guess that's our punishment for getting two exciting televised derbies on Sunday
Originally Posted by Grim Fandango:
“Swans v Villa is the sat night game. Guess that's our punishment for getting two exciting televised derbies on Sunday”
“Swans v Villa is the sat night game. Guess that's our punishment for getting two exciting televised derbies on Sunday”
When's the rugby on?
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“The biggest problem I had with Moyes was his reluctance to take responsibility for failure. It seemed to be everyone else's fault but his.”
“The biggest problem I had with Moyes was his reluctance to take responsibility for failure. It seemed to be everyone else's fault but his.”
Van Gaal certainly keeps that trait alive and kicking. In fact, Van Gaal views the current year as part of the triumphant march fulfilling his three year plan playing a winning style of football. Perhaps the main difference is Van Gaal is deluded, while Moyes was defeated.
Originally Posted by Grim Fandango:
“No idea, don't follow rugby myself.”
“No idea, don't follow rugby myself.”
Well that's my Saturday night option B instead of the football.
Originally Posted by NiteOwl12:
“Van Gaal certainly keeps that trait alive and kicking. In fact, Van Gaal views the current year as part of the triumphant march fulfilling his three year plan playing a winning style of football. Perhaps the main difference is Van Gaal is deluded, while Moyes was defeated.”
“Van Gaal certainly keeps that trait alive and kicking. In fact, Van Gaal views the current year as part of the triumphant march fulfilling his three year plan playing a winning style of football. Perhaps the main difference is Van Gaal is deluded, while Moyes was defeated.”
If we win another premier league within the next few years it'll probably be down to the foundations he laid.
Your Moyes and Van Gaal comparison is spot on.
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Well that's my Saturday night option B instead of the football.”
“Well that's my Saturday night option B instead of the football.”
I'm planning on telling the girlfriend that i will be very selflessly spurning the football in favour of spending the evening with her
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Leeds v Saints is on tonight.”
“Leeds v Saints is on tonight.”
Bloody hate both of them.
I prefer Union tbh.
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“The biggest problem I had with Moyes was his reluctance to take responsibility for failure. It seemed to be everyone else's fault but his.”
“The biggest problem I had with Moyes was his reluctance to take responsibility for failure. It seemed to be everyone else's fault but his.”
True, and he did come across as like a deer in the headlights, which didn't help his cause.
Both managers have so many negatives in their time with us, that it is just hard to really put one above the other.
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Bloody hate both of them.
I prefer Union tbh.”
“Bloody hate both of them.
I prefer Union tbh.”
Oh no, Union is just an adult version of the children's game "plie on!".
League is quicker and more skillful.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Oh no, Union is just an adult version of the children's game "plie on!".
League is quicker and more skillful.”
“Oh no, Union is just an adult version of the children's game "plie on!".
League is quicker and more skillful.”
A rare occurrence, but yes I agree with you.
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