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Football Neutrals Thread - Part 2
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NorthernNinny
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“Doesn't change the fact that to say Klopp has neglected the defence is ridiculous when he has signed two centrebacks and a GK.”

Arsenal will be critised for their defending but that shouldn't make Liverpool immune from the same kind of criticism because you have just signed two centre backs.

Doesn't change the number of goals conceded today does it?
TheSloth
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Okay then, I don't quite think either defence even when all players are fit, are that special, but if you do, then fair enough.”

Arsenal were poor today because of the players they were forced to play at the centre of their defence due to injuries plus the goals were quality. Liverpool need a left back for sure. Both teams commit numbers forward and will concede more than, say, LVG's United who had a zero risk policy and despite a questionable defence on paper would never concede br many thanks to the safety first football (and a great keeper). I don't think Jose will stray too far from the same mentality but will attack with more purpose when given the opportunity. Defending as a team is as important as the actual back four.
TheSloth
14-08-2016
Apparently Cech has just driven into a post in the car park and totalled his car. What a day he's had.
Dandem
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Arsenal will be critised for their defending but that shouldn't make Liverpool immune from the same kind of criticism because you have just signed two centre backs.

Doesn't change the number of goals conceded today does it?”

That's not the point you were making though. Had you said "Liverpool were really poor defensively today", everyone would have agreed, and that'd be that. But you (and Codeblue actually) mentioned that Klopp neglected to improve the defensive positions. Which is just flat out wrong.
batdude_uk1
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“Apparently Cech has just driven into a post in the car park and totalled his car. What a day he's had.”

Wow, I hope that he is okay.
misawa97
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Arsenal will be critised for their defending but that shouldn't make Liverpool immune from the same kind of criticism because you have just signed two centre backs.

Doesn't change the number of goals conceded today does it?”

You argued Klopp is strengthening the side but neglecting the defence. If signing 2 defenders and a GK means neglect then I think we are watching a different sport.
misawa97
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“Arsenal were poor today because of the players they were forced to play at the centre of their defence due to injuries plus the goals were quality. Liverpool need a left back for sure. Both teams commit numbers forward and will concede more than, say, LVG's United who had a zero risk policy and despite a questionable defence on paper would never concede br many thanks to the safety first football (and a great keeper). I don't think Jose will stray too far from the same mentality but will attack with more purpose when given the opportunity. Defending as a team is as important as the actual back four.”

Not forgetting it's game 1 and trying to draw long term conclusions from the first game is silly.
misawa97
14-08-2016
This dortmund v Bayern game is decent.

Bayern look all over the place defensively. Hummels especially looking shaky.
codeblue
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Wow, I hope that he is okay.”

Just smashed the wing up a bit, images on Twitter
NorthernNinny
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“We're not pretending or ignoring anything. Just saying that we haven't neglected our defence despite you saying that we have. Karius will probably be our first choice goalkeeper, but he's injured.

Shall we just pretend we didn't sign two centrebacks and a goalkeeper so you can say we neglected the defence?

We scored four by taking advantage of their defensive issues with players being out, they scored due to some defensive issues, including our leftback who we aren't going to replace for some reason.

The fact is we have addressed our defensive issues by signing two CB, and letting Skrtel go (and Kolo, sadly). Unfortunately Matip, Sakho and Gomez were unavailable. Gomez could play LB when he's fit. Milner was also unavailable and he might have started at LB if he was fit.”

So are we also going to discuss the players that Arsenal were also missing today ? I also said something along the lines of Liverpool continuing to strengthen certain areas of their squad but continue to neglect their defence. I don't remember singling out Klopp alone for it. The post is there.

Your leaky defence is what cost you the league a few years back imo.

I got pulled up a few days ago for suggesting that Klopp has had 2 transfer windows so far, it would seem that January doesn't count in the reckoning.

Golden rule on here seems to be the only Liverpool fans are able to make any kind of comment that may be regarded as criticism.
NorthernNinny
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“You argued Klopp is strengthening the side but neglecting the defence. If signing 2 defenders and a GK means neglect then I think we are watching a different sport.”

Let's deal with stats here, you conceded 3 goals. As for the different sport bit I watched two teams who were shocking defensively one of which was Liverpool. I couldn't care less how many defenders you've bought i'm making my judgement based on your defence to date.

Maybe you were watching a different game of football, Celtic perhaps?
Dandem
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“This dortmund v Bayern game is decent.

Bayern look all over the place defensively. Hummels especially looking shaky.”

Very good goal by Vidal just now. Did well to stay alert following the initial save.
TheMunch
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“So are we also going to discuss the players that Arsenal were also missing today ? I also said something along the lines of Liverpool continuing to strengthen certain areas of their squad but continue to neglect their defence. I don't remember singling out Klopp alone for it. The post is there.

Your leaky defence is what cost you the league a few years back imo.

I got pulled up a few days ago for suggesting that Klopp has had 2 transfer windows so far, it would seem that January doesn't count in the reckoning.

Golden rule on here seems to be the only Liverpool fans are able to make any kind of comment that may be regarded as criticism.”

You said Liverpool strengthened other areas and neglected the defence. All I said is we have not neglected our defence because we've signed two CBs and a goalkeeper. Whatever defensive problems cost us the title in 13/14 is irrelevant.

No one is disputing our defensive problems today. I've already said Moreno is a weak link, and I think the two goals we conceded in the second half was probably through a lack of concentration, they probably thought they had the game won. Klopp said as much himself. I've not disagreed with our defence being a problem today, or Arsenal, we both had defensive problems and we were both missing key people at the back. The game ended 4-3 so I'm not going to pretend it as a defensive masterclass.

If you simply said we had defensive problems that'd be fine, and I'd have either agreed with what you said or discussed it. All I was disputing was your claim that we neglected the defence.

There's nothing wrong with criticising Liverpool, other fans criticise Liverpool and it's not a problem. All that's happening here is you've made a comment and other people have responded and disagreed. No need to get defensive, is there? No one's insulting you or denying your right to an opinion, we're just using our right to an opinion to disagree and tell you that you were wrong.


The fact is we've signed two CBs and a goalkeeper. So we haven't neglected our defence.
misawa97
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Let's deal with stats here, you conceded 3 goals. As for the different sport bit I watched two teams who were shocking defensively one of which was Liverpool. I couldn't care less how many defenders you've bought i'm making my judgement based on your defence to date.

Maybe you were watching a different game of football, Celtic perhaps?”

Keep moving those goalposts
misawa97
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by Dandem:
“Very good goal by Vidal just now. Did well to stay alert following the initial save.”

Against the run of play and now 2-0 Muller.
NorthernNinny
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“Keep moving those goalposts”

Which goalposts are they now then?
Meols
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“So are we also going to discuss the players that Arsenal were also missing today ? I also said something along the lines of Liverpool continuing to strengthen certain areas of their squad but continue to neglect their defence. I don't remember singling out Klopp alone for it. The post is there.

Your leaky defence is what cost you the league a few years back imo.

I got pulled up a few days ago for suggesting that Klopp has had 2 transfer windows so far, it would seem that January doesn't count in the reckoning.

Golden rule on here seems to be the only Liverpool fans are able to make any kind of comment that may be regarded as criticism.”

Liverpool have signed 2 new defenders and a goalkeeper and had a key defender injured today. That isn't "neglecting" the defence. Today as has been said the first goal was down to Moreno losing the plot and when they went 4-1 up they had Arsenal throwing the kitchen sink at them for a time. Pretty sure Klopp will have the back four sorted out at some stage when he's got everyone he wants.

What happened a few years ago isn't relevant to the present.
misawa97
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Which goalposts are they now then?”

How does a manager tend to strengthen his team?
Is it not by buying players? Has the manager not signed players?

Today was a average defensive display as you said but how you can still try and claim the manager has tried not to address the issue in the market is simply ignoring the facts. You are trying to use today's display to support a failed argument.
owen10
14-08-2016
I think i have seen the next Superstar in World football

Watch out for Ousmane Dembele who plays for Borussia Dortmund

He is very highly rated, and Barcelona ans Arsenal were after him before Dortmund bought him from the French side Rennes
Meols
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“I couldn't care less how many defenders you've bought i'm making my judgement based on your defence to date”

Its your hypothesis that Klopp has neglected the defence. When its been pointed out to you that he has signed defenders you've then completely altered your argument.

If you'd acknowledged that he has signed defenders it probably wouldn't have been a waste of a page.
misawa97
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by owen10:
“I think i have seen the next Superstar in World football

Watch out for Ousmane Dembele who plays for Borussia Dortmund

He is very highly rated, and Barcelona ans Arsenal were after him before Dortmund bought him from the French side Rennes”

Yeah scored that great goal v Man Utd in pre season
NorthernNinny
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“How does a manager tend to strengthen his team?
Is it not by buying players? Has the manager not signed players?

Today was a average defensive display as you said but how you can still try and claim the manager has tried not to address the issue in the market is simply ignoring the facts. You are trying to use today's display to support a failed argument.”

Shipping in three goals an average defensive display?

As for the failed argument i'm not basing my judgement on one game, Liverpool have been questionable in defence since the season you were were in with a title challenge at least. Look at the difference with Leicester last season after they tightened up at the back.

I came across more than one poster arguing that you were suffering from injuries but again so were Arsenal.

Anyway, we'll probably spend all night arguing about this and not getting anywhere so i'm out.
TheMunch
14-08-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Shipping in three goals an average defensive display?

As for the failed argument i'm not basing my judgement on one game, Liverpool have been questionable in defence since the season you were were in with a title challenge at least. Look at the difference with Leicester last season after they tightened up at the back.

I came across more than one poster arguing that you were suffering from injuries but again so were Arsenal.

Anyway, we'll probably spend all night arguing about this and not getting anywhere so i'm out.”

But that's still missing the point. Nobody has disagreed about the defence being poor today, or that we still have problems.

You said we've strengthened other areas and neglected the defence. You said that. All we've been saying is that we haven't neglected the defence because we've signed two CBs and a first-choice goalkeeper. That's it. Whatever problems we had in the 13/14 season is irrelevant, whatever problems we had last season is irrelevant when the fact is Klopp has looked at addressing our defensive problems when he signed two CBs and a first-choice goalkeeper. Whether it works out or not doesn't matter, we've identified that we have issues at the back and made signings to address it.

All we've been saying is that we have addressed those issues, but unfortunately we also have injuries at the back, including our new first-choice goalkeeper. No one is using it to make excuses for leaking goals, or ignoring Arsenal's issues, before the game people even spoke about Arsenal being vulnerable at the back due to missing players.

The only thing we're neglecting is our leftback issue, and even then Klopp has decided that James Milner is going to cover there. He'd be better defensively than Moreno, but won't be as quick. He was also out through injury so he couldn't have played.
mimik1uk
15-08-2016
just catching up on yesterdays games and am a little confused about wenger's comments about the problems of players not having enough time to prepare for the new season after the euros

you'd think arsenal were the only team to have players at the tournament ?
codeblue
15-08-2016
Originally Posted by mimik1uk:
“just catching up on yesterdays games and am a little confused about wenger's comments about the problems of players not having enough time to prepare for the new season after the euros

you'd think arsenal were the only team to have players at the tournament ?”

wenger is truely useless, it must frustrate arsenal fans no end.

A defensive crisis, and yet he cannot play a player who last played over a month ago!
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