Originally Posted by exstoker84:
“Fully aware. You do realise you won't finish in the top 4 don't you?”
“Fully aware. You do realise you won't finish in the top 4 don't you?”
Can you give me next Saturdays lottery numbers too?
Football Neutrals Thread - Part 2
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Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Can you give me next Saturdays lottery numbers too?”
“Can you give me next Saturdays lottery numbers too?”
You honestly believe you'll finish in the top 4 this season?
Think some of you lot need to face up to the facts. Your not a side that can compete in the top 4 anymore. League cups about your level now
The problem is a lot more than just the managers at United, as has previously been alluded to they've signed big names and hoped for quick fixes, there needs to be a structure in place and some sort of plan.
Now I don't want this to turn into a United v City thread but the differences in setup and direction is massive. We've been very lucky to get the investment we've had but it's not all just been about buying players left right and centre. When we got taken over a ten year plan was put in place with directions, strategies, planning and preparation for where we want to be. Everyone in the set up knows their job and what role they perform. We've finally landed Guardiola which seems to be the final piece in the jigsaw for this plan but it's still just the start.
I may have rambled on there slightly but you get the point, changing managers and buying 'big' names isn't a long term or as things look even a short term solution.
Now I don't want this to turn into a United v City thread but the differences in setup and direction is massive. We've been very lucky to get the investment we've had but it's not all just been about buying players left right and centre. When we got taken over a ten year plan was put in place with directions, strategies, planning and preparation for where we want to be. Everyone in the set up knows their job and what role they perform. We've finally landed Guardiola which seems to be the final piece in the jigsaw for this plan but it's still just the start.
I may have rambled on there slightly but you get the point, changing managers and buying 'big' names isn't a long term or as things look even a short term solution.
Originally Posted by Big Poy:
“The problem is a lot more than just the managers at United, as has previously been alluded to they've signed big names and hoped for quick fixes, there needs to be a structure in place and some sort of plan.
Now I don't want this to turn into a United v City thread but the differences in setup and direction is massive. We've been very lucky to get the investment we've had but it's not all just been about buying players left right and centre. When we got taken over a ten year plan was put in place with directions, strategies, planning and preparation for where we want to be. Everyone in the set up knows their job and what role they perform. We've finally landed Guardiola which seems to be the final piece in the jigsaw for this plan but it's still just the start.
I may have rambled on there slightly but you get the point, changing managers and buying 'big' names isn't a long term or as things look even a short term solution.”
“The problem is a lot more than just the managers at United, as has previously been alluded to they've signed big names and hoped for quick fixes, there needs to be a structure in place and some sort of plan.
Now I don't want this to turn into a United v City thread but the differences in setup and direction is massive. We've been very lucky to get the investment we've had but it's not all just been about buying players left right and centre. When we got taken over a ten year plan was put in place with directions, strategies, planning and preparation for where we want to be. Everyone in the set up knows their job and what role they perform. We've finally landed Guardiola which seems to be the final piece in the jigsaw for this plan but it's still just the start.
I may have rambled on there slightly but you get the point, changing managers and buying 'big' names isn't a long term or as things look even a short term solution.”
Well said. It makes a change from the 'Well you're just as bad as you were under Moyes'.
Originally Posted by Big Poy:
“The problem is a lot more than just the managers at United, as has previously been alluded to they've signed big names and hoped for quick fixes, there needs to be a structure in place and some sort of plan.
Now I don't want this to turn into a United v City thread but the differences in setup and direction is massive. We've been very lucky to get the investment we've had but it's not all just been about buying players left right and centre. When we got taken over a ten year plan was put in place with directions, strategies, planning and preparation for where we want to be. Everyone in the set up knows their job and what role they perform. We've finally landed Guardiola which seems to be the final piece in the jigsaw for this plan but it's still just the start.
I may have rambled on there slightly but you get the point, changing managers and buying 'big' names isn't a long term or as things look even a short term solution.”
“The problem is a lot more than just the managers at United, as has previously been alluded to they've signed big names and hoped for quick fixes, there needs to be a structure in place and some sort of plan.
Now I don't want this to turn into a United v City thread but the differences in setup and direction is massive. We've been very lucky to get the investment we've had but it's not all just been about buying players left right and centre. When we got taken over a ten year plan was put in place with directions, strategies, planning and preparation for where we want to be. Everyone in the set up knows their job and what role they perform. We've finally landed Guardiola which seems to be the final piece in the jigsaw for this plan but it's still just the start.
I may have rambled on there slightly but you get the point, changing managers and buying 'big' names isn't a long term or as things look even a short term solution.”
What's the plan post Pep? It's being said he is only expected to stay for 3 years, dosent seem much of a long term plan to me if that is the case.
Surely he should have an understudy there learning from him ready to take over after he departs.
Originally Posted by Marti S:
“What's the plan post Pep? It's being said he is only expected to stay for 3 years, dosent seem much of a long term plan to me if that is the case.
Surely he should have an understudy there learning from him ready to take over after he departs.”
“What's the plan post Pep? It's being said he is only expected to stay for 3 years, dosent seem much of a long term plan to me if that is the case.
Surely he should have an understudy there learning from him ready to take over after he departs.”
I would imagine the plan is for the head coach of New York City, to move upwards, and take the Man City job after Pep.
Originally Posted by Marti S:
“What's the plan post Pep? It's being said he is only expected to stay for 3 years, dosent seem much of a long term plan to me if that is the case.
Surely he should have an understudy there learning from him ready to take over after he departs.”
“What's the plan post Pep? It's being said he is only expected to stay for 3 years, dosent seem much of a long term plan to me if that is the case.
Surely he should have an understudy there learning from him ready to take over after he departs.”
He's said he doesn't know how long he'll stay yet, I have a feeling it will be more than 3 but we shall see. By then hopefully we'll be in a place where we have such a foundation and a set up and a way of playing that although they probably won't be the same calibre as Guardiola we'll be able to carry on some form of continued success with following managers.
I think Man Utd are suffering the biggest hangover in footballing history. The force that shaped and carried it for 26 years is no more and what was a well ordered winning machine has coughed and spluttered ever since. The aura has gone and the rest have smelt blood.
So the League Cup is getting yet another new sponsor for next season :-
https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status...648909312?s=09
Not really sure how you pronounce that particular company, but I am sure that there will be a fair few different ways of doing so!
https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status...648909312?s=09
Not really sure how you pronounce that particular company, but I am sure that there will be a fair few different ways of doing so!
Originally Posted by Chris1964:
“I think Man Utd are suffering the biggest hangover in footballing history. The force that shaped and carried it for 26 years is no more and what was a well ordered winning machine has coughed and spluttered ever since. The aura has gone and the rest have smelt blood.”
“I think Man Utd are suffering the biggest hangover in footballing history. The force that shaped and carried it for 26 years is no more and what was a well ordered winning machine has coughed and spluttered ever since. The aura has gone and the rest have smelt blood.”
Be interesting to see how Arsenal cope when Wenger goes, as theirs is the only real comparable situation.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Be interesting to see how Arsenal cope when Wenger goes, as theirs is the only real comparable situation.”
“Be interesting to see how Arsenal cope when Wenger goes, as theirs is the only real comparable situation.”
Well we have a "what not to do" blueprint, so hopefully we'll be fine
Originally Posted by Phoebica:
“Well we have a "what not to do" blueprint, so hopefully we'll be fine”
“Well we have a "what not to do" blueprint, so hopefully we'll be fine
”
Yeah, just don't appoint Moyes after Wenger, then you should be fine!
When Arsene retires, Arsenal are going to have to really make sure their next manager is up to the job or they will fall into mediocracy.
At this moment in time there are probably less than 10 really good managers that are capable of successfully keeping Arsenal in a comfortable top 4 position but there are more than 20 clubs who want them.
At this moment in time there are probably less than 10 really good managers that are capable of successfully keeping Arsenal in a comfortable top 4 position but there are more than 20 clubs who want them.
Arsenal have gone years without a league title and have a fanbase that has included a number of people willing Wenger to call it a day for a while now, he'll be a less intimidating act to follow than Ferguson was by quite some distance.
Originally Posted by ScousingScowler:
“When Arsene retires, Arsenal are going to have to really make sure their next manager is up to the job or they will fall into mediocracy.
At this moment in time there are probably less than 10 really good managers that are capable of successfully keeping Arsenal in a comfortable top 4 position but there are more than 20 clubs who want them.”
“When Arsene retires, Arsenal are going to have to really make sure their next manager is up to the job or they will fall into mediocracy.
At this moment in time there are probably less than 10 really good managers that are capable of successfully keeping Arsenal in a comfortable top 4 position but there are more than 20 clubs who want them.”
Yeah, the favourite among Arsenal fans seems to be Simeone, but I don't know how realistic that is. The bookies seem to fancy Eddie Howe and Joachim Low. Not sure I'd be that confident with either of them to be honest.
Originally Posted by Phoebica:
“Well we have a "what not to do" blueprint, so hopefully we'll be fine”
“Well we have a "what not to do" blueprint, so hopefully we'll be fine
”
Absolutely!
Originally Posted by Phoebica:
“Yeah, the favourite among Arsenal fans seems to be Simeone, but I don't know how realistic that is. The bookies seem to fancy Eddie Howe and Joachim Low. Not sure I'd be that confident with either of them to be honest.”
“Yeah, the favourite among Arsenal fans seems to be Simeone, but I don't know how realistic that is. The bookies seem to fancy Eddie Howe and Joachim Low. Not sure I'd be that confident with either of them to be honest.”
Simeone? Arsenal's current playing staff are largely incompatible with his style of play I'd say so it'll be a bit of a culture change and rocky transition - can't see it myself.
Originally Posted by Jamesp84:
“I always had Klopp down as going to Arsenal once Wenger went, though that ship has now sailed.”
“I always had Klopp down as going to Arsenal once Wenger went, though that ship has now sailed.”
It might have been a good match once, but that just will not happen anytime in the near future (next five years at least).
Originally Posted by Jamesp84:
“I always had Klopp down as going to Arsenal once Wenger went, though that ship has now sailed.”
“I always had Klopp down as going to Arsenal once Wenger went, though that ship has now sailed.”
Yeah, he was the obvious successor, I thought. Would've been a perfect match.
Sucks to be them.
Originally Posted by Chris1964:
“I think Man Utd are suffering the biggest hangover in footballing history. The force that shaped and carried it for 26 years is no more and what was a well ordered winning machine has coughed and spluttered ever since. The aura has gone and the rest have smelt blood.”
“I think Man Utd are suffering the biggest hangover in footballing history. The force that shaped and carried it for 26 years is no more and what was a well ordered winning machine has coughed and spluttered ever since. The aura has gone and the rest have smelt blood.”
I've been banging this drum for a few years. SAF managed many aspects of the day-to-day and the media and players alike were expertly controlled and led. His effect cannot be underestimated. United's players, even the stronger characters, either towed the line or were shipped out (with perhaps the exception of Rooney where other forces may have come into play). His retirement was like ripping the firewall out of the White House.
The media have been able to infiltrate and pressurise more and the players have been able to vocalise and resist more. 26 years of being led off the field has led to a culture of not relying on leaders on it.
Big name signings have largely failed as they are just random colourful jigsaw puzzle pieces that have no relation to the picture on the box - no consistent strategy in player recruitment which has been partly due to three quick-fire managerial changes.
Moyes and LVG had long term strategies but the short term offering an impallable insight for most. Even Jose needs some time to build a team to suit his style but, again, his short term methods are putting the chances of being given that time at risk.
The majority of fans and shareholders want immediate success or at least the signs of progress.
It's a complicated situation and there are a lot of conflicting pressures - I suspect there are forces behind the scenes with similar conflicts and different agendas. The media, of course, will feast on every morsel being thrown to them to further agitate the state of things.
If you step back - things aren't as bad as the furore suggests so rationality must play a part - someone just needs to stop the ball of wool unravelling and I suspect that someone needs to be behind the scenes at Old Trafford and on the board.
Sadly I think we have just been overtaken off of the pitch (as well as on it as well), for a long while we had by far the biggest club ground in England, so our profits from that certainly helped us to finance signings that other clubs couldn't, but as time has passed clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea (to a certain degree), City have all got either new grounds or improved their own grounds, so that the capacity differentials are not quite as much as it once was.
This combined with television revenues going through the roof, thus giving others far more spending power then ever before has resulted in us not being as dominant as we once were.
For example, no longer could we just purchase our rivals best striker as we did with Newcastle and Andy Cole, (can anyone imagine us purchasing say Aguero or Costa??) and then win the league.
Other clubs have got their act together more than we have off the pitch as well it seems, City have the group of clubs like New York and Melbourne etc, Liverpool have finally it seems stopped faffing about with trying to get a new stadium, and just increased their current one, Spurs have started (I think) building their new one, and on it goes.
We are still just plastering our "brand" over anything, and practically anything it seems, without any real foresight as to the development of the club as a whole.
There also doesn't appear to be any great deal of rush or any inclination to possibly upgrade our own stadium capacity wise, we seem to be happy as we are, ever since the takeover, that side of things has just been allowed to stay the same,with seemingly no ambitious plans for future or further development.
Once you stand still as a club, you always risk being over taken, and thus going backwards, and that is exactly what we have seen happen in the past few years, as the club, and especially the owners I think, relied on Sir Alex to continue our success, that they could just carry on as normal, but since he moved upstairs, we have shown no real ambitious plans off of the pitch.
It Is fine and dandy buying Pogba for a world record amount, but if the solid foundations as a club are not there, then it will not really matter who you buy, as things will tend to revert to type, and we are finding that out for ourselves at the moment.
Success (bar the odd cup victory here and there), true success, in terms of either a league or a Champions League victory, seems a long way off currently, and that is in part due to what is happening, or rather not happening off of the pitch.
This combined with television revenues going through the roof, thus giving others far more spending power then ever before has resulted in us not being as dominant as we once were.
For example, no longer could we just purchase our rivals best striker as we did with Newcastle and Andy Cole, (can anyone imagine us purchasing say Aguero or Costa??) and then win the league.
Other clubs have got their act together more than we have off the pitch as well it seems, City have the group of clubs like New York and Melbourne etc, Liverpool have finally it seems stopped faffing about with trying to get a new stadium, and just increased their current one, Spurs have started (I think) building their new one, and on it goes.
We are still just plastering our "brand" over anything, and practically anything it seems, without any real foresight as to the development of the club as a whole.
There also doesn't appear to be any great deal of rush or any inclination to possibly upgrade our own stadium capacity wise, we seem to be happy as we are, ever since the takeover, that side of things has just been allowed to stay the same,with seemingly no ambitious plans for future or further development.
Once you stand still as a club, you always risk being over taken, and thus going backwards, and that is exactly what we have seen happen in the past few years, as the club, and especially the owners I think, relied on Sir Alex to continue our success, that they could just carry on as normal, but since he moved upstairs, we have shown no real ambitious plans off of the pitch.
It Is fine and dandy buying Pogba for a world record amount, but if the solid foundations as a club are not there, then it will not really matter who you buy, as things will tend to revert to type, and we are finding that out for ourselves at the moment.
Success (bar the odd cup victory here and there), true success, in terms of either a league or a Champions League victory, seems a long way off currently, and that is in part due to what is happening, or rather not happening off of the pitch.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Sadly I think we have just been overtaken off of the pitch (as well as on it as well), for avoid long while we had by far the biggest club ground in England, so our profits from that certainly helped us to finance signings that other clubs couldn't, but as time has passed clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea (to a certain degree), City have all got either new grounds or improved their own grounds, so that the capacity differentials are not quite as much as it once was.
This combined with television revenues going through the roof, thus giving others far more spending power then ever before has resulted in us not being as dominant as we once were.
For example, no longer could we just purchase our rivals best striker as we did with Newcastle and Andy Cole, (can anyone imagine us purchasing say Aguero or Costa??) and then win the league.
Other clubs have got their act together more than we have off the pitch as well it seems, City have the group of clubs like New York and Melbourne etc, Liverpool have finally it seems stopped faffing about with trying to get a new stadium, and just increased their current one, Spurs have started (I think) building their new one, and on it goes.
We are still just plastering our "brand" over anything, and practically anything it seems, without any real foresight as to the development of the club as a whole.
There also doesn't appear to be any great deal of rush or any inclination to possibly upgrade our own stadium capacity wise, we seem to be happy as we are, ever since the takeover, that side of things has just been allowed to stay the same,with seemingly no ambitious plans for future or further development.
Once you stand still as a club, you always risk being over taken, and thus going backwards, and that is exactly what we have seen happen in the past few years, as the club, and especially the owners I think, relied on Sir Alex to continue our success, that they could just carry on as normal, but since he moved upstairs, we have shown no real ambitious plans off of the pitch.
It Is fine and dandy buying Pogba for a world record amount, but if the solid foundations as a club are not there, then it will not really matter who you buy, as things will tend to revert to type, and we are finding that out for ourselves at the moment.
Success (bar the odd cup victory here and there), true success, in terms of either a league or a Champions League victory, seems a long way off currently, and that is in part due to what is happening, or rather not happening off of the pitch.”
“Sadly I think we have just been overtaken off of the pitch (as well as on it as well), for avoid long while we had by far the biggest club ground in England, so our profits from that certainly helped us to finance signings that other clubs couldn't, but as time has passed clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea (to a certain degree), City have all got either new grounds or improved their own grounds, so that the capacity differentials are not quite as much as it once was.
This combined with television revenues going through the roof, thus giving others far more spending power then ever before has resulted in us not being as dominant as we once were.
For example, no longer could we just purchase our rivals best striker as we did with Newcastle and Andy Cole, (can anyone imagine us purchasing say Aguero or Costa??) and then win the league.
Other clubs have got their act together more than we have off the pitch as well it seems, City have the group of clubs like New York and Melbourne etc, Liverpool have finally it seems stopped faffing about with trying to get a new stadium, and just increased their current one, Spurs have started (I think) building their new one, and on it goes.
We are still just plastering our "brand" over anything, and practically anything it seems, without any real foresight as to the development of the club as a whole.
There also doesn't appear to be any great deal of rush or any inclination to possibly upgrade our own stadium capacity wise, we seem to be happy as we are, ever since the takeover, that side of things has just been allowed to stay the same,with seemingly no ambitious plans for future or further development.
Once you stand still as a club, you always risk being over taken, and thus going backwards, and that is exactly what we have seen happen in the past few years, as the club, and especially the owners I think, relied on Sir Alex to continue our success, that they could just carry on as normal, but since he moved upstairs, we have shown no real ambitious plans off of the pitch.
It Is fine and dandy buying Pogba for a world record amount, but if the solid foundations as a club are not there, then it will not really matter who you buy, as things will tend to revert to type, and we are finding that out for ourselves at the moment.
Success (bar the odd cup victory here and there), true success, in terms of either a league or a Champions League victory, seems a long way off currently, and that is in part due to what is happening, or rather not happening off of the pitch.”
Brilliant, isn't it?
Apologies for the non neutral post...
Originally Posted by Big Poy:
“Brilliant, isn't it?
Apologies for the non neutral post...”
“Brilliant, isn't it?
Apologies for the non neutral post...”
For you, and other clubs fans I guess that it is, for us suffering as we watch our team and club, crumble almost before our own eyes, no it isn't.
Anyone know exactly what Rochdale's Calvin Andrew did to get a 12 match ban?
Did he kill the referee's dog or something?! Seems incredibly steep!
Did he kill the referee's dog or something?! Seems incredibly steep!
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