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Man United Supporters Thread (Part 50)


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Old 25-04-2016, 22:29
Nova21
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I was hoping for (and expected) a Spurs win tonight because now the entire World's press media and their dogs will be at OT willing Leicester on to win the title there and then, and they will bust a gut ten times over to try and do it. The officials may be tempted to enable it, too...

Makes it harder now for us to get the win I've been anticipating for a while, much harder, so we are going to have to play an absolute blinder *and* beat the officials to do it. Damn and drat! It's almost as if it was pre-ordained but I'd luv it just luv it if we beat them!
I reckon the result tonight means they will a bit more relaxed against you and know that they still have some leeway if they don't get a result against man united.
Makes it an easier game for you guys.

I'd be happy for them to lose at old Trafford and win the league at home in their next game.
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Old 25-04-2016, 22:30
batdude_uk1
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I always want us to win every single match, going into the match with any other attitude is not for me.

I hope that we delay Leicester's title celebrations by a week, as we need to look after us first and foremost, and we need the win far more than we do.
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Old 25-04-2016, 22:32
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Football's a funny game - re the title race.

All this talk of Leicester still have to face United and Chelsea so Spurs could still catch them with their easier final games ... and Spurs dream ends at home thanks to lowly West Brom!

And Leicester will win the title if they win at Old Trafford ...
Little fun fact, should we win on Sunday, we'll have beaten all of the top 4 teams at least once.

...It's the showings vs. Bournemouth, Norwich, Stoke, and Newcastle that have largely been our undoing.
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Old 25-04-2016, 22:45
d'@ve
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I'd be happy for them to lose at old Trafford and win the league at home in their next game.
I hadn't thought of that - they may subconsciously want to do just that. Feeling better about it now, and the media can shove their 'Leicester can win it at OT!" hype up where the sun don't shine!

But obviously, the media will claim when we beat them that they let us win "for their fans". <rolleyes>.
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Old 26-04-2016, 08:00
big brother 9
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This is exactly why I get so frustrated with people peddling this myth that we've always had a conveyor belt of talent coming through.

Only twice, in living memory, has a 'crop' come through. There's been the odd one every now and then, like Hughes, McGrath, Whiteside, but generally, it just doesn't happen.

Off the top of my head, since the 'Class of '92', we've produced:

Kieran Richardson: Not good enough, sold.
Wes Brown: Decent squad player, but sold.
John O'Shea: Same as Brown.
Tom Cleverley: Not good enough, sold.
Jonny Evans: Ok squad player, but sold.
Danny Welbeck: Not good enough, sold.
Darron Gibson: Not good enough, sold.
Federico Macheda: Not good enough, sold.
Will Keane: Not good enough, will never play for the first team again.

And these are just the ones that have got more than 10 minutes in the League Cup.

Of the current crop, Rashford and Borthwick-Jackson have shown promise. Fosu-Mensah could go either way and the rest will be forgotten soon enough. The much-heralded Varela was bought, so is no different to Shaw.

Therefore, I really am not bothered if Mourinho has no real track record of bringing players through, because neither do we.
100%. There can't be that many people that believe the hype that is around our youth players and them coming through .
The one forum member who peddles this type constantly couldn't have a decent argument on the subject to save his life.
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Old 26-04-2016, 08:06
mattlamb
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County were promoted to the top flight for the 91/92 season, Bruce didn't score in either of the games against them. Though the home game, our season opener was Schmeichel's debut.

As for your comment over the previous years ECWC, FM was around then, we were on FM 2 at that point, whilst a World Cup edition had also been released.
The predecessor of FM (as it is now) only began in 1992 (Championship Manager). That is - the game that was created by the current team behin Fotball Manager.

Fotball Manager 1 and 2 were completely different games, created by completely different people (Kevin Toms was the creator). They were available on the old Spectrum and were very basic indeed. No managing foreign teams in those games -- they basically existed when English clubs were banned from Europe.

So batdude is in essence correct in what he has said.
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Old 26-04-2016, 10:04
Syntax Error
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Sunday is going to be so strange.

Everyone not connected with Tottenham Hotspur is going to be willing us to lose, yet it's just as vital that we win, because now we're a club that battles just to get into the top 4!

I actually think we will win, because we seem to have a habit of putting a spanner in the works of the top 4 this season, when it matters.

Leicester's performance this season is already the greatest story in the history of the Premier League & it seems almost prophesied that they should win the title at the home of the greatest Premier League club in history!
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Old 26-04-2016, 10:10
Tribec
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The predecessor of FM (as it is now) only began in 1992 (Championship Manager). That is - the game that was created by the current team behin Fotball Manager.

Fotball Manager 1 and 2 were completely different games, created by completely different people (Kevin Toms was the creator). They were available on the old Spectrum and were very basic indeed. No managing foreign teams in those games -- they basically existed when English clubs were banned from Europe.

So batdude is in essence correct in what he has said.
The problem is that at that time in question those games were around before the ban in Europe and the last game in the series was released in 1992, which was around that period. All football management games come from this series, it was the original. Whilst the current version rose from the ashes of the dispute between Edios and SI, they only came about because of the Toms original.

As for the quality, yes they were basic, but what do you expect from a machine only had 48K?
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Old 26-04-2016, 14:55
Flukie
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Little fun fact, should we win on Sunday, we'll have beaten all of the top 4 teams at least once.

...It's the showings vs. Bournemouth, Norwich, Stoke, and Newcastle that have largely been our undoing.
Yep. 3 games running last December we lost to Bournemouth, Norwich and Stoke, and with 0-0 (of course!) draws either side with West Ham and Chelsea, that was 2 points won out of 15, which really killed off the league season before 2016 had even started. In fact, it's the sort of results at a top club that gets managers sacked!
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Old 26-04-2016, 14:58
Flukie
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Sunday is going to be so strange.

Everyone not connected with Tottenham Hotspur is going to be willing us to lose, yet it's just as vital that we win, because now we're a club that battles just to get into the top 4!

I actually think we will win, because we seem to have a habit of putting a spanner in the works of the top 4 this season, when it matters.

Leicester's performance this season is already the greatest story in the history of the Premier League & it seems almost prophesied that they should win the title at the home of the greatest Premier League club in history!
Leicester would probably rather win it at home, anyway!
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Old 26-04-2016, 15:41
TheMunch
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100%. There can't be that many people that believe the hype that is around our youth players and them coming through .
The one forum member who peddles this type constantly couldn't have a decent argument on the subject to save his life.
And if you give him a proper response or he doesn't have any counter-argument he'll just ignore you anyway. Did it to me just yesterday. Feels like I've wasted my time in writing the post that I did.
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Old 26-04-2016, 16:01
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As I understand it -- not that we need extra incentive to root against these teams -- but if City and Liverpool win CL and EL respectively, does that mean next year's CL is Leicester/Spurs/City/Liverpool, even if we make the push for 3rd?
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Old 26-04-2016, 16:14
batdude_uk1
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And if you give him a proper response or he doesn't have any counter-argument he'll just ignore you anyway. Did it to me just yesterday. Feels like I've wasted my time in writing the post that I did.
I am presuming you mean me, by the person that has ignored you, sorry I didn't mean to do so.

I don't ignore people on purpose if they ask me questions, so please refresh my mind on your point of view.
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Old 26-04-2016, 16:15
batdude_uk1
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As I understand it -- not that we need extra incentive to root against these teams -- but if City and Liverpool win CL and EL respectively, does that mean next year's CL is Leicester/Spurs/City/Liverpool, even if we make the push for 3rd?
It only applies I belive if we finish fourth, and both City and Liverpool finish outside of the top four.

It is complicated though!
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Old 26-04-2016, 16:24
TheMunch
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I am presuming you mean me, by the person that has ignored you, sorry I didn't mean to do so.

I don't ignore people on purpose if they ask me questions, so please refresh my mind on your point of view.
My post, post #2475. It doesn't really matter now, that discussion's already passed and died so there's no point going back to it but felt a waste of time having done all that only for it to get ignored.
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Old 26-04-2016, 17:15
batdude_uk1
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Because, and this has been said several times to you already, he wasn't allowed to. He just won the league and was sacked a few months later. Where was the time to play kids? He had to get instant results, and constantly, there was no time to play around with kids (I know, that sounds bad!) because he had to just win. Those underperforming players won him the league, he trusted them from the previous season, they were proven, those kids weren't proven, he didn't know if they would have come in and been the answer to all his problems and he wasn't in a position to experiment and hope for the best because, again, he needed instant results, and constantly. It was the same at Real Madrid.

Him getting Falcao didn't work out but he probably thought Falcao would get him goals and help Costa. It wasn't that long ago Falcao was one of the best strikers in the world, with the likes of Hazard and Fabregas around him playing at the level they were expected he could've helped Chelsea compete in Europe and the league.

The fact that Mourinho would be considered thinking short-term doesn't mean anything either, Moyes was a long-term appointment, how did that turn out? If you sign Mourinho and he wins you a title in his first season with Higuain rather than Rashford are you going to be crying about him not playing Rashford every week or are you going to be celebrating winning the league?
Was this the post, as when I click on the link, it takes me to a dedicated Hillsborough thread for some reason.

Anyway to answer your points that you raised, (hopefully it is not too late, and I do honestly humbly apologise if you do feel that I ignored you) I would far rather win the league with Rashford as our main striker (or for him to play a significant role in doing so), then to win it with Higuain or someone else of that ilk.
Of course I will be happy, delighted, and all other manner of similar words and emotions if we do won the league, however as I say I would prefer it if "one of our own" were to be the reason, or part of the reason for doing so.

As for the other bits about having and needing to win at Real and Chelsea, that is always the case at every big club, do you think Sir Alex didn't have to win? He did, but yet he found time to try and blood some of the more talented younger players (and not just the famous "Class of '92"+Phil).
Credit to LvG for stumbling somewhat onto Rashford and Mensah, but he has given them a chance, and that is all you can do as a manager, give them a chance, after that it is down to the players to reward their managers faith in them.

José did trust those players that won him the league title, but they were not doing it for him this season, so why not try out some of the more talented younger players at his disposal (at the time), I could understand if they were not so good, but we are talking about the best at their age in Europe, there must be at least one or two there that would have been better, or at least offered something different from the drastically underperforming players in his first team?

That is what worries me, if he doesn't trust players that were the best in Europe, then how is he going to try and develop players here, and try to improve them? Or is he just going to go out and buy ready made players?

Again of course I want us to be successful, who doesn't, but there should be ways and means of doing so, would it mean as much if we won the league with a whole team or squad that was purchased, over one with a sprinkling of youth players, no it wouldn't.

That is why to me at least, all of the trophies that we won with the "Class of '92"+Phil, plus later ones with Welbeck, O'Shea, Brown, and others felt extra special, because of the fact that there were younger players that came through and played their part in us being successful.

I might be living in a fantasy world, but I would rather we won things with players that we have played a huge role in their development, rather than buying in ready made ones at huge prices (or high wages, if like Zlatan they come on a free transfer).

If being successful today, now means you can only do it, with ready made players, then that will take a small part of shine off of the joy of being successful for me, as I will always prefer to see us being successful with players that we had a key role in their development.
That is just my own personal preference and that will not change, no matter who is linked with us, or who are manager is.

I hope that has helped you to understand my point of view a bit more, and once again I am sorry if you felt neglected or ignored, that was never my intention to make you feel that way.
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Old 26-04-2016, 17:33
TheMunch
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Was this the post, as when I click on the link, it takes me to a dedicated Hillsborough thread for some reason.

I pasted the wrong link, which I copied for the Liverpool thread.
Anyway to answer your points that you raised, (hopefully it is not too late, and I do honestly humbly apologise if you do feel that I ignored you) I would far rather win the league with Rashford as our main striker (or for him to play a significant role in doing so), then to win it with Higuain or someone else of that ilk.
Of course I will be happy, delighted, and all other manner of similar words and emotions if we do won the league, however as I say I would prefer it if "one of our own" were to be the reason, or part of the reason for doing so.
But that doesn't really mean much, of course you'd want to win it with the likes of Rashford rather than an expensive player like Higuain but you aren't guaranteed to win it with an unproven young player, whereas with a player like Higuain it'll be seen, in the manager's eyes, as less of a risk.

As for the other bits about having and needing to win at Real and Chelsea, that is always the case at every big club, do you think Sir Alex didn't have to win? He did, but yet he found time to try and blood some of the more talented younger players (and not just the famous "Class of '92"+Phil).
Credit to LvG for stumbling somewhat onto Rashford and Mensah, but he has given them a chance, and that is all you can do as a manager, give them a chance, after that it is down to the players to reward their managers faith in them.
Yes, but my point was that at Real Madrid and Chelsea he doesn't get any time, he doesn't get any leeway, he won the league and a few months later he was sacked. It's not just the pressures of winning at a big club, it's the unreal expectations that is placed on the manager at those two clubs. You need to win, and instantly, and regularly, otherwise you're fired. You have to win, Mourinho has to win, so he has to do what he thinks is best to do that, he can't afford to try and put his faith on some young players, he'd be putting his job on the line by trying an unproven young player.


José did trust those players that won him the league title, but they were not doing it for him this season, so why not try out some of the more talented younger players at his disposal (at the time), I could understand if they were not so good, but we are talking about the best at their age in Europe, there must be at least one or two there that would have been better, or at least offered something different from the drastically underperforming players in his first team?


That is what worries me, if he doesn't trust players that were the best in Europe, then how is he going to try and develop players here, and try to improve them? Or is he just going to go out and buy ready made players?
I don't know why you keep referring to them as the best in Europe or whatever, they're kids, even if they won things at youth level or while out on loan.


I already answered this part in the post you quoted, but I'll do it again.

Those players won him the title, and convincingly. When players win you the title you play them the following season because they won you the title. You know they're good enough. When things aren't going well, and you need to get back to winning ways because you'll be out of a job in a few months despite winning the league, you look for the best, most trusted solution, and that is those same players that won you the league. They were underperforming, but they got him the title. He doesn't know if he can trust one of the younger players to come in and save his job after having just won the title, but he thought he could trust the likes of Fabregas and Hazard because only a few months ago previously they won him the title.

Again, he needed instant results, and constantly, and he had to do that the best way he could, and so he had to rely on players he thought he could trust to get him out of it, not throw in some young player and hope for the best.


Again of course I want us to be successful, who doesn't, but there should be ways and means of doing so, would it mean as much if we won the league with a whole team or squad that was purchased, over one with a sprinkling of youth players, no it wouldn't.

That is why to me at least, all of the trophies that we won with the "Class of '92"+Phil, plus later ones with Welbeck, O'Shea, Brown, and others felt extra special, because of the fact that there were younger players that came through and played their part in us being successful.
The likes of Welbeck and O'Shea were ultimately flops, though, for years I've heard your fans moaning about these kind of players, the likes of Welbeck and Cleverley. Some did a job sometimes but ultimately they weren't good enough. You won because of your manager and other great players around them, you won in spite of them, and the odd good things they were able to do.


I might be living in a fantasy world, but I would rather we won things with players that we have played a huge role in their development, rather than buying in ready made ones at huge prices (or high wages, if like Zlatan they come on a free transfer).

If being successful today, now means you can only do it, with ready made players, then that will take a small part of shine off of the joy of being successful for me, as I will always prefer to see us being successful with players that we had a key role in their development.
That is just my own personal preference and that will not change, no matter who is linked with us, or who are manager is.
I'm sure many people want the same but football doesn't work like that. Most will probably want to win with players their club developed rather than bought, but it's harder to achieve that, it's what made the Class of '92 special because it's rare. You might want to win the title with Rashford up front but you can't rely on him, he's not proven, even Ferguson wouldn't do that, he'd probably have Martial (young, but brought in) with Rashford learning from him and some more, proven players around him.
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Old 26-04-2016, 22:04
big brother 9
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We go back to the same old class of 92....... we have won more trophies without academy graduates.

Rooney
Rvp
Van nistlerooy
Ronaldo
Andy Cole
Dwight Yorke
Macheda
Forlan
Cantona
Degea
Schmeichel
The list goes on and on and on.

Winning a trophy with either academy graduates or big name players wouldn't make much of a difference to me.

Wes Brown, John oshea, Johnny Evans, Darren fletcher and others have been no where near the level of the class of 92.

You seem to want to turn us into West ham (who won the world cup you know).
We need to get over the kids thing. Immediate results are what I want to see. If that means keeping players for a few years before making a new team then so be it.

Don't forget fergie did the same in 99, mid 20s and 2010 +
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Old 26-04-2016, 22:12
owen10
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The biggest match of the season will be at Old Trafford as the league could be won, but would have thought it would be Leicester City instead of Man United going for the title
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Old 27-04-2016, 06:45
snafu65
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As I understand it -- not that we need extra incentive to root against these teams -- but if City and Liverpool win CL and EL respectively, does that mean next year's CL is Leicester/Spurs/City/Liverpool, even if we make the push for 3rd?
It looks unlikely now for City, sure they are capable of scoring an away goal but their problem will be stopping Real scoring 3 or 4. Come on Ronnie, dump em out.
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Old 27-04-2016, 07:38
dearmrman
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As I understand it -- not that we need extra incentive to root against these teams -- but if City and Liverpool win CL and EL respectively, does that mean next year's CL is Leicester/Spurs/City/Liverpool, even if we make the push for 3rd?
A maximum of 5 teams can enter the CL from one nation, so a 3rd place finish would be fine....4th place becomes irrelevant if both Man City & Liverpool win the cups.
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Old 27-04-2016, 10:48
d'@ve
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A maximum of 5 teams can enter the CL from one nation, so a 3rd place finish would be fine....4th place becomes irrelevant if both Man City & Liverpool win the cups.
Except that we have as much chance of finishing 3rd as Spurs have of winning the title! So come on Ronnie!!!
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Old 27-04-2016, 18:27
mattlamb
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Except that we have as much chance of finishing 3rd as Spurs have of winning the title! So come on Ronnie!!!
You've got a fair chance of finishing third.
You are actually in good form at the moment too - although Man City are too.
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Old 27-04-2016, 18:51
NorthernNinny
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You've got a fair chance of finishing third.
You are actually in good form at the moment too - although Man City are too.
If we haven't dropped any points before City play Arsenal then I'll believe it's possible.

Our away form is still not great and we still have to go to West Ham.
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Old 27-04-2016, 20:41
big brother 9
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Someone just asked hererra on twitter if United will sign Ronaldo this summer.

Hererras reply was........looks good.
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