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Man United Supporters Thread (Part 50)
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Jim De Ville
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Does he mean whilst he is there, is he on holiday over there or something?

I've means no one from the actual Portuguese league, no wonder Bayern signed Sanches then.”

I presume that he means this summer.

He was giving a lecture at Lisbon university.

Actually, he could just be trying to stop any of the ridiculous Ronaldo speculation starting up again.
batdude_uk1
31-05-2016
Hopefully we can get some clarity over things when he has his official unveiling, as I doubt that we will get anything from him this Sunday.
batdude_uk1
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“I presume that he means this summer.

He was giving a lecture at Lisbon university.

Actually, he could just be trying to stop any of the ridiculous Ronaldo speculation starting up again.”

Yeah, the Ronaldo stuff is just pure fantasy, and we both have moved on from each other a long time ago.
Banana Rama
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“Odd stance, but then Mourinho seems the kind of guy that'd fall out with a whole country.

The Renato Sanches thing makes more sense now.

Nani's dreams of a return have just been crushed.”

he was talking about players from the portuguese league, not portuguese players, and its not any kind of stance, there obviously just isn't any players from the portuguese league that interest him, the idea that he would disregard any player playing in portugal because of some kind of grudge is ludicrous. i am sure his shortlist of targets was drawn up months ago, he has had 6 months + to prepare for the job while he has been out of work, he won't be stumbling around the transfer market like a clueless buffoon the way that moyes and van gaal did...
TheMunch
31-05-2016
Yeah my comment wasn't really serious. I didn't know the context but I figured he wasn't just boycotting Portugal.

He will have known for ages he was getting the Man United job so he would have been doing his homework, as you said. He'll already have that advantage over his two predecessors.
batdude_uk1
31-05-2016
Which is something that Chelsea will find will put them at a disadvantage, as they will be waiting (as we did with LvG) for their manager to exit the international competition, before he can start to get to work with his squad, whereas José is already working on improving our squad.
NorthernNinny
31-05-2016
New contracts for Rashford and CBJ shortly after Jose was announced suggests that he has been watching our players.

Hopefully the rumours that Mata and Blind will be out of the door is bullshit though. I can think of quite a few who deserve the exit before those two.
Stilton Cheesew
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Which is something that Chelsea will find will put them at a disadvantage, as they will be waiting (as we did with LvG) for their manager to exit the international competition, before he can start to get to work with his squad, whereas José is already working on improving our squad.”

I didn't think van gaal had much trouble signing players in his first summer?
Banana Rama
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“New contracts for Rashford and CBJ shortly after Jose was announced suggests that he has been watching our players.

Hopefully the rumours that Mata and Blind will be out of the door is bullshit though. I can think of quite a few who deserve the exit before those two.”

i don't see why blind is needed, mourinho won't use him at centre back, that was a van gaal thing. we have shaw and cbj at left back so he's not needed there and as a midfielder he's average at best. mourinho will be signing a centre back and midfielder this summer so blind is surplus to requirements. mata can go aswell if we sign a capable replacement, he's just not good enough either in the middle or on the wing and we can easily sign a superior replacement. his wages are far too high to justify keeping him as a squad player, he's one of the highest earners at the club. mata shouldn't be too hard to sell for decent money as he still has a good rep on the continent, i will be interested to see which club blind ends up at, a championship side might pick him up, thats about his level.
NorthernNinny
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by Banana Rama:
“i don't see why blind is needed, mourinho won't use him at centre back, that was a van gaal thing. we have shaw and cbj at left back so he's not needed there and as a midfielder he's average at best. mourinho will be signing a centre back and midfielder this summer so blind is surplus to requirements. mata can go aswell if we sign a capable replacement, he's just not good enough either in the middle or on the wing and we can easily sign a superior replacement. his wages are far too high to justify keeping him as a squad player, he's one of the highest earners at the club. mata shouldn't be too hard to sell for decent money as he still has a good rep on the continent, i will be interested to see which club blind ends up at, a championship side might pick him up, thats about his level.”

Oh come on, a championship side? Blind is a very good player. Like I've said there are players far more deserving of the boot than both Mata and Blind. Hasn't Mata been one our best players when it comes to assists for a start?

Carrick and Schweinsteiger aren't going to play every game due to age/injury issues.

Fellani is in the last year of his contract so it's either stick or bust this summer

Lingard is a decent squad player no more.

Rooney shouldn't be playing in the midfield imo.

Memphis still needs to sort his shit out.

For me it would be silly to get rid of both Blind and Mata.

I would have Blind as a centre half over Rojo, McNair and Jones, none of whom would be a great loss if they left.
Stilton Cheesew
31-05-2016
A 26 year old who has won 30 caps for Holland and made 35 appearances for Manchester United last season is a Championship level player? Wouldn't have thought so.
Banana Rama
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Oh come on, a championship side? Blind is a very good player. Like I've said there are players far more deserving of the boot than both Mata and Blind. Hasn't Mata been one our best players when it comes to assists for a start? ”

its not a competition to decide who is more or less deserving to stay, your making it sound like we are talking about a primary school football team where the most well behaved kids get to play in the team...

what position is mourinho going to need blind to play in, please tell me. centre back? mourinho is not going to use blind at centre back and i doubt any other premier league manager would either, that was a van gaal thing, so blinds ability to play at centre back is irrelevant because mourinho won't want to use him there. left back? shaw will be first choice when he returns, when he needs a rest i would rather give a high potential academy player in cbj the game time to help him develop, are you seriously suggesting you would select blind at left back ahead of cbj? why, because he has nice hair?
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“
Carrick and Schweinsteiger aren't going to play every game due to age/injury issues.”

thats why schneiderlin and herrera are in the squad, have you forgotten that they exist, your acting like carrick and schweinsteiger are the only midfielders we have. schneiderlin and herrera will be higher up the midfield pecking order then blind, its also looking likely that we will be signing a central midfielder which will push blind even further down, he'll be lucky if he even makes the bench let alone the first 11.
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Fellani is in the last year of his contract so it's either stick or bust this summer

Lingard is a decent squad player no more.

Rooney shouldn't be playing in the midfield imo.

Memphis still needs to sort his shit out.”

what do the situations with lingard and memphis have to do with blind, they are not competing for the same position in the team so they are irrelevant to blinds situation. even if fellaini is sold we still have lots of better midfield options then blind, and thats not even including a new midfield signing that is likely to be made.
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“For me it would be silly to get rid of both Blind and Mata.”

why? your making it sound like selling both of them instead of just one would leave us too short of players in a particular position, again they are not competing for the same position in the team so there situations are not connected in any way.
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“I would have Blind as a centre half over Rojo, McNair and Jones, none of whom would be a great loss if they left.”

thats just a damning endightment on how bad our centre back options are, thankfully there is a thing called the transfer market, your actually allowed to buy new players, imagine that...
Jim De Ville
31-05-2016
Mourinho seemed to find a use for Mikel, so I'd suggest that Blind won't necessarily be immediately punted.
batdude_uk1
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“I didn't think van gaal had much trouble signing players in his first summer?”

We were in waiting mode for him to leave the Netherlands and join us, which he couldn't do until they were eliminated, and they were not until the very last week, so that did have an impact on his preparation time for looking at the squad and working things out from there.

At least now we have got someone whose sole and only focus this summer, right from the very beginning is us, and us alone, that right there is a big plus point.
NorthernNinny
31-05-2016
I actually don't think our squad needs a massive clear out as Van Gaal has already seen to that.

A forward, centre half and a winger.
batdude_uk1
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“I actually don't think our squad needs a massive clear out as Van Gaal has already seen to that.

A forward, centre half and a winger.”

So the De Gea to Real Madrid is over with then, that will not be happening, and he will stay with us, good to see another true believer!

It was a load of fuss over nothing last summer wasn't it?! (I joke!)
batdude_uk1
01-06-2016
It seems as if Schneiderlin has been called up to France's European Championship squad, so congratulations to him (as a replacement for Diarra, who sadly for him in what has been a very bad week for him, has picked up an injury).
batdude_uk1
01-06-2016
I hope that this is true, as it would be great to add him to Rashford and B-J, and to secure his services for a good few more years to come, as he does have a lot of potential.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage..._-Imageandlink
Stilton Cheesew
01-06-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“We were in waiting mode for him to leave the Netherlands and join us, which he couldn't do until they were eliminated, and they were not until the very last week, so that did have an impact on his preparation time for looking at the squad and working things out from there.”

I've seen you mention this in a few threads as some major minus point for Conte but in reality was it?

What ACTUALLY happened with Van Gaal that was a problem? The players were all on holiday after the World Cup and as far as I saw there was no signings that weren't made as a result of him being there. Most managers spend the tournament watching it anyway.

Aside from you wanting to feel that Van Gaal was doing something Im not sure there was any real impact at all unless Im much mistaken, which I well could be.
batdude_uk1
01-06-2016
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“I've seen you mention this in a few threads as some major minus point for Conte but in reality was it?

What ACTUALLY happened with Van Gaal that was a problem? The players were all on holiday after the World Cup and as far as I saw there was no signings that weren't made as a result of him being there. Most managers spend the tournament watching it anyway.

Aside from you wanting to feel that Van Gaal was doing something Im not sure there was any real impact at all unless Im much mistaken, which I well could be.”

We did, just like with Moyes and his gardening leave situation at Everton, have to wait for LvG to start work with us, and it was outside of our control, as to when that would be, we couldn't set a date for when he would take over, and start planning etc, as we didn't know when Holland/Netherlands would be eliminated from the World Cup.
Ideally you want to appoint a manager as early as possible in the summer, so that whilst the players might all be at a tournament our on holiday, they can get on with planning the season ahead, be it planning training, who to buy or sell etc, there is still plenty for a manager to discuss and do during the off season.
The more that can be done the better, and having to wait with a great deal of uncertainty as to when a manager will join does not really help that planning, the club is almost in a holding role, or in pause mode, until the country goes out of the tournament (in our case the World Cup, in Chelsea's case the European Championships), and that is in no way ideal.

Look at like this, would you prefer we had appointed José when we did, or later on in the summer?
The more time a manager has with the club the better it is as far as I can see from my own personal perspective anyway, but if you disagree, then fair enough.
Stilton Cheesew
01-06-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“We did, just like with Moyes and his gardening leave situation at Everton, have to wait for LvG to start work with us, and it was outside of our control, as to when that would be, we couldn't set a date for when he would take over, and start planning etc, as we didn't know when Holland/Netherlands would be eliminated from the World Cup.
Ideally you want to appoint a manager as early as possible in the summer, so that whilst the players might all be at a tournament our on holiday, they can get on with planning the season ahead, be it planning training, who to buy or sell etc, there is still plenty for a manager to discuss and do during the off season.
The more that can be done the better, and having to wait with a great deal of uncertainty as to when a manager will join does not really help that planning, the club is almost in a holding role, or in pause mode, until the country goes out of the tournament (in our case the World Cup, in Chelsea's case the European Championships), and that is in no way ideal.

Look at like this, would you prefer we had appointed José when we did, or later on in the summer?
The more time a manager has with the club the better it is as far as I can see from my own personal perspective anyway, but if you disagree, then fair enough.”

Im not disagreeing Im asking how you were actually worse off in practical terms? What signings did you miss out on, what preseason did you miss? I appreciate that you want a manager in place early in theory but Im unsure what issues are thrown up by him not being there when he is at the same tournament all the major players are at and they go on holiday afterwards?

Van Gaal arrived after the tournament - as did most of the players, and signings were made as per whatever plans he had. That's what it seemed to be. The fans are waiting around for something to happen but that doesn't matter really.
TeeGee
01-06-2016
Allegedly JM was on a £4m retainer from quite some time ago so I am sure he has already had some say in who stays and who goes. Regardless of changes I feel that the one certainty is that he will get far more out of the players both tactically and individually than LvG ever did. IMHO, of course!
batdude_uk1
01-06-2016
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“Im not disagreeing Im asking how you were actually worse off in practical terms? What signings did you miss out on, what preseason did you miss? I appreciate that you want a manager in place early in theory but Im unsure what issues are thrown up by him not being there when he is at the same tournament all the major players are at and they go on holiday afterwards?

Van Gaal arrived after the tournament - as did most of the players, and signings were made as per whatever plans he had. That's what it seemed to be. The fans are waiting around for something to happen but that doesn't matter really.”

Well if you don't think it makes much difference when in the summer period a manager is appointed, why did we rush to appoint José as soon as we did, why not just take all summer doing negotiations, if there is no rush, as nothing happens in the summer?

In all reality, you want a manager firmly in place so that he can he plan everything out, be it training, transfers, and everything else that a manager is required to do these days.

Having to wait for one, is not at all ideal, especially since an international tournament is totally out of the clubs control, a manager could start straight after the group stages, or as long as after the final whistle of the World Cup final itself (or whatever/whichever international tournament is at hand), a bit of a difference in times to start wouldn't you say?

Look at another example, Moyes didn't start with us until July 1st, and we were already on the backfoot, and having to have a catchup period.

Having appointed José when we have, does allow for him to start asap, and his sole focus is on us, and us alone, whereas with Conte, his focus at the moment is Italy, and rightly so.

He will have to get used to his new surroundings, and squad pretty quickly after Italy are eliminated, but until then Chelsea are in limbo (just as we were with LvG and Holland/Netherlands), they don't know when he will start, and so any potential transfers, or activity pertaining to the first team will have to be placed on hold, until Italy are eliminated from the European Championships.
Stilton Cheesew
01-06-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Well if you don't think it makes much difference when in the summer period a manager is appointed, why did we rush to appoint José as soon as we did, why not just take all summer doing negotiations, if there is no rush, as nothing happens in the summer? ”

I didn't say any of that. I asked you how Man Utd were actually disadvantaged by Van Gaal being with the Netherlands. I asked how disrupted your pre-season was and what players you missed out on by him being late to the party?

Quote:
“In all reality, you want a manager firmly in place so that he can he plan everything out, be it training, transfers, and everything else that a manager is required to do these days.”

Yes obviously if he is available you would want him in and uncertainty removed. However that wasn't what I was asking!


Quote:
“Having to wait for one, is not at all ideal, especially since an international tournament is totally out of the clubs control, a manager could start straight after the group stages, or as long as after the final whistle of the World Cup final itself (or whatever/whichever international tournament is at hand), a bit of a difference in times to start wouldn't you say? ”


So once again, how did this disadvantage actually manifest itself for Man Utd and Van Gaal?

Quote:
“Look at another example, Moyes didn't start with us until July 1st, and we were already on the backfoot, and having to have a catchup period.”

The least of the problems with Moyes was him starting in July, its the fact he started at all that caused the problems!

Quote:
“Having appointed José when we have, does allow for him to start asap, and his sole focus is on us, and us alone, whereas with Conte, his focus at the moment is Italy, and rightly so.

He will have to get used to his new surroundings, and squad pretty quickly after Italy are eliminated, but until then Chelsea are in limbo (just as we were with LvG and Holland/Netherlands), they don't know when he will start, and so any potential transfers, or activity pertaining to the first team will have to be placed on hold, until Italy are eliminated from the European Championships”

And once again how did that affect United and Van Gaal? How many players do Chelsea have who are either at the Euro's or on holiday right now anyway? Conte won't be working with them any time soon and the transfers will be getting worked on, similar to Van Gaal.

I just thought you would tell me how United would have been better of in any tangible way that you can explain had Holland been knocked out in the group stages or Van Gaal not managed them at all. Anything that can actually be quantified like pre-season missed or played who didn't sign.
batdude_uk1
01-06-2016
Without knowing what actually went on behind the scenes, I cannot tell you for sure, as that is something that only those there will be able to answer your questions about that.

All we as outsiders can do is look and try to think rationale about the situation, I don't know who we missed out on transfer wise, any more then any other regular fan.

All that I can go on is the logic that suggests that it is better to have a manager in place to deal with the whole summer situation, rather than one coming in late, and on am unknown date.
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