Rooney's first touch has always been the first thing to suffer when he's either not fully fit or out of form.

Mkhitaryan is supposedly fit, for Thursday's game.

Shaw and Martial are still out, and Ibrahimovic has been 'sent on a short holiday'.

I don't think Rooney has looked after himself that well, health wise.
He drinks, smokes and carries a little extra weight..
Maybe it's all catching up with him.
As much as I'd like to think he'll make it back in the first team, the team that beat Leicester showed much more drive and passion.
If that continues without Rooney, then so be it.

Be good if Rashford can continue his brilliant recent form for us.
If there Martial and Ibra are out, then I guess Rooney could be back up for the young feller.

I don't expect Rooney to be 'back up' for anyone, in this game. I'm certain that he'll start.

A front 3 of him, Depay and Mkhitaryan, with Young and Lingard as options from the bench, is what I'd go with.

I would much rather see Rashford be our number two striker now, moving into the number one position once Ibra leaves either at the end of this season, or the next one, so he needs to be getting as much experience before taking the mantle at that stage.

Rooney should now be a sub option at best, and so Rashford with Miki and Memphis would offer us so much more in terms of pace, and threat to the opposition goal.

And that would all be fine except for the fact that Rashford is our starter on the left right now and he's played a significant role (30+ mins) in every match so far this month, easy way to get an 18 year old burned out. It would be stupid to start him again for this one, give Rooney the start to try and get his form back and save Rashford for Stoke.

Yep, exactly this.

I also think that anyone thinking that Rooney will be a 'sub option at best', from hereon in, is dreaming. Mourinho will give him every opportunity to recover some sort of form. Of course, if he doesn't, then he may well find his opportunities limited, but I don't see that happening in the near future.

Yep, I agree.

He should be a sub option now, what does he offer us now, that others do not do to a higher standard??

Didn't José say that he was going to play him as a striker? Well he is not good enough for that role for us, at best he should be third (or fourth choice if Martial can get his form high on a regular basis) choice behind Ibra and Rashford.

I just don't see what justification there is to keep playing him in the team, and hoping he recovers some past form, whilst there are other players who can do his job better than him.

Being captain and on on whatever amounts per week, should not mean that he gets a pass directly into the first team, his form should determine that.

You aren't the manager, and neither am I.

My post was reflecting what I think that Mourinho will do. It's possible that the manager isn't as quick to write off the club captain for good as you are.

José I think will do what is best for the club eventually, as he will want to have success here, and sadly as witnessed against the champions, we play far better when he is not on the pitch.

I can't see José possibly sacrificing success, just to play Rooney.

Where have I said that he will?

I've suggested that he'll give him chance to find some form, rather than binning him off permanently. That doesn't mean that I expect Rooney to go straight back into the team and play every game, it means that he'll be used more sparingly than he has been.

Having to explain my arguments all of the time is pretty tiresome.

Where there are people in form, and ready to play, he shouldn't play Rooney in the hope that he will recapture some past form of years gone by.
If we didn't have strikers in form, then I would understand trying to go along with Rooney.
It is quite clear that he is not the same player from a few years ago, and thus should only really be played when we are short of other options.
If José wants to achieve success with us (which you think he would), then I do think he will phase Rooney out of the side, and not play him as often as Moyes and LvG did.
Let him have a Robson style club captaincy role, and give the on pitch armband to Smalling or someone who will play more regularly.

Deleted. What's the point?

What is the point in what?

Getting involved. I can't be bothered.

What's the point in replying to deleted posts?

I was wondering what you meant by what is the point, after we have been having a good tactical talk over Rooney's role, or should be role in the side.

We have had a good talk about this so far, why feel the need to give up now?

Mainly because I've got to get up for work, tomorrow morning.

However, I'll leave you with my thoughts. Rooney is the club captain, has been one of our key players for over a decade, and was described by Mourinho as his 'main man', just a couple of days ago.

I therefore struggle to believe that he'll be 'a sub option at best', after being dropped for a solitary game.

Your arguments about the wisdom of having him in the team are irrelevant to my initial point. I don't think that Mourinho will ostracise him, and I don't think that he should, either. Rooney's been given a clear sign that he's no longer guaranteed a place. That will either be enough to buck him up, or it won't. Either way, I'd expect Mourinho to give himself a chance to find out.

Your thoughts are all fine and dandy, except that we played very well without him, and looked far more potent when he was not on the pitch.

I doubt very much that José would not have noticed this, and I think will be the reason why in the main key games, we will not see Rooney starting (the biggest one will be upcoming shortly against a much improved from last season Liverpool).

He might very well play in the games where Rashford needs a rest, or Ibra is on holiday, but other than that, there really is not a desperate need to play him anymore, he just does not offer us anything more then any other player these days.

Rooney is still a talented player, but he is just not what we need on a regular basis, if we are to achieve success these season.

What zieler said, ages ago.


Rooney Thursday, Rashford Sunday = not regular starts for Rooney... unless he plays a blinder on Thursday in which case they could maybe both play on Sunday.

It was one game. I doubt that Mourinho will base the rest of his decisions for this season upon that one game.

I've also said that I don't expect Rooney to play in every game, from now on. However, I do think that he'll play a part. That's a world away from 'a sub option at best'.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that Rooney's finished, and shouldn't be in the team, but I'm simply suggesting that Mourinho doesn't share your views.

We shall see what José will do from here on in, but he must surely take on board how good we were and looked without Rooney against a team that is the current Premier League champions, and have win both of their Champions League games, so Leicester are no mugs.

Rooney might very well play a part in the rest of the season, but it should be from the bench, or as a rotational option for when either Ibra or Rashford need a rest.
He should only third choice, as we have better options up front then him, and who are in better form currently then he is.

I think José has seen the light, and his dropping/resting (call it what you will) of Rooney is just the start of us playing without him in the team on a more regular basis.

How about him taking note how bad we were against Feyenoord without Rooney in the team and not even on the bench??

That's the thing isn't it, we've played possibly 2 or 3 games where we've looked good, twice against Leicester and the Southampton game. There is no recurring factor in any of those games though that we can say why in those games we played well. If we could pinpoint something then by all means lets use it.

With all due respect to the Feyenoord game, it is quite hard to put too much stock in the team that played that night, as it as not a first choice one, so while yes, we played poorly without Rooney in it, we were very much in squad rotational mode there.

The team that we should play moving forward should look more like the one that started the Leicester match, as that is so far the one in which we looked closest to how we would want the side to play.