The feyenoord game would have been very offended if you hadn't paid it 'all due respect'
Man United Supporters Thread (Part 50)
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Yeah. Luke Shaw should be a sub option at best, from now on.
He's just not what we need in the team, as shown in the game against the Champions.
He's just not what we need in the team, as shown in the game against the Champions.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Yeah. Luke Shaw should be a sub option at best, from now on.
He's just not what we need in the team, as shown in the game against the Champions.”
“Yeah. Luke Shaw should be a sub option at best, from now on.
He's just not what we need in the team, as shown in the game against the Champions.”
Huh??
I said the team should look more like the one that started the Leicester game/match, note I did not say exactly the same, so hence why a player of Shaw's calibre should be in the team more often than not.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Huh??
I said the team should look more like the one that started the Leicester game/match, note I did not say exactly the same, so hence why a player of Shaw's calibre should be in the team more often than not.”
“Huh??
I said the team should look more like the one that started the Leicester game/match, note I did not say exactly the same, so hence why a player of Shaw's calibre should be in the team more often than not.”
Just trying to enter your black-and-white world.
You're basing your entire argument on one game.
Mata's had plenty of poor games for us, Rooney's had plenty of good games for us.
There's no doubt that Rooney isn't the player that he once was. That doesn't make him instantly dispensable, due to one performance in his absence. He won't start every game, but he won't only play if all other options are injured/suspended either.
If his form doesn't get any better, then there'll be a decision to make at the end of the season. Until then, I expect him to play his part.
Originally Posted by Tribec:
“How about him taking note how bad we were against Feyenoord without Rooney in the team and not even on the bench??
That's the thing isn't it, we've played possibly 2 or 3 games where we've looked good, twice against Leicester and the Southampton game. There is no recurring factor in any of those games though that we can say why in those games we played well. If we could pinpoint something then by all means lets use it.”
“How about him taking note how bad we were against Feyenoord without Rooney in the team and not even on the bench??
That's the thing isn't it, we've played possibly 2 or 3 games where we've looked good, twice against Leicester and the Southampton game. There is no recurring factor in any of those games though that we can say why in those games we played well. If we could pinpoint something then by all means lets use it.”
Well the recurring factor since the start of the season is that Rooney has been crap.
Did you see how many players in that Feyenoord game made their debut this season unlike Rooney who has played every game? It was a hotchpotch of fringe players needing game time.
Using the crapness of others to justify Rooney's form so far is desperate stuff.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Just trying to enter your black-and-white world.
You're basing your entire argument on one game.
Mata's had plenty of poor games for us, Rooney's had plenty of good games for us.
There's no doubt that Rooney isn't the player that he once was. That doesn't make him instantly dispensable, due to one performance in his absence. He won't start every game, but he won't only play if all other options are injured/suspended either.
If his form doesn't get any better, then there'll be a decision to make at the end of the season. Until then, I expect him to play his part.”
“Just trying to enter your black-and-white world.
You're basing your entire argument on one game.
Mata's had plenty of poor games for us, Rooney's had plenty of good games for us.
There's no doubt that Rooney isn't the player that he once was. That doesn't make him instantly dispensable, due to one performance in his absence. He won't start every game, but he won't only play if all other options are injured/suspended either.
If his form doesn't get any better, then there'll be a decision to make at the end of the season. Until then, I expect him to play his part.”
What on earth are you on about my "black and white world"???
I have plenty of views inches middle or whatnot.
Rooney has had plenty of good games for us this season has he, as this is what we are talking about here, not last season, the one before that, or the one before that etc.
Even when he has set up goals like the one v Southampton at home, his overall game was not exactly a standout one was it?
Rooney should be our third choice striker, how that isn't clear I don't know, do you really think he is a better option then either Rashford or Ibra??
Hopefully, if Martial can get his act together, then Rooney might be pushed down to fourth choice in that role, as Martial's potential is huge.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“What on earth are you on about my "black and white world"???
I have plenty of views inches middle or whatnot.
Rooney has had plenty of good games for us this season has he, as this is what we are talking about here, not last season, the one before that, or the one before that etc.
Even when he has set up goals like the one v Southampton at home, his overall game was not exactly a standout one was it?
Rooney should be our third choice striker, how that isn't clear I don't know, do you really think he is a better option then either Rashford or Ibra??
Hopefully, if Martial can get his act together, then Rooney might be pushed down to fourth choice in that role, as Martial's potential is huge.”
“What on earth are you on about my "black and white world"???
I have plenty of views inches middle or whatnot.
Rooney has had plenty of good games for us this season has he, as this is what we are talking about here, not last season, the one before that, or the one before that etc.
Even when he has set up goals like the one v Southampton at home, his overall game was not exactly a standout one was it?
Rooney should be our third choice striker, how that isn't clear I don't know, do you really think he is a better option then either Rashford or Ibra??
Hopefully, if Martial can get his act together, then Rooney might be pushed down to fourth choice in that role, as Martial's potential is huge.”
Is that kind of tone really necessary? I'd calm down a bit, if I were you. You might not have to ask where everyone is, if you didn't speak to people disagreeing with you in such a petulant, condescending manner.
Interesting that you're giving Martial a free pass here, considering that we're talking about this season in isolation.
Anyway, you're obviously incapable of understanding that I'm simply speculating on what I think that Mourinho might do. You don't seem to realise the difference between that, and my opinion of what we should do, so I'll take my leave.
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Well the recurring factor since the start of the season is that Rooney has been crap.
Did you see how many players in that Feyenoord game made their debut this season unlike Rooney who has played every game? It was a hotchpotch of fringe players needing game time.
Using the crapness of others to justify Rooney's form so far is desperate stuff.”
“Well the recurring factor since the start of the season is that Rooney has been crap.
Did you see how many players in that Feyenoord game made their debut this season unlike Rooney who has played every game? It was a hotchpotch of fringe players needing game time.
Using the crapness of others to justify Rooney's form so far is desperate stuff.”
Was I justifying Rooney's form??? I pointed out that in the only other game that Rooney was absent the team was woeful. You can't blame that poor performance on him, as you have every other poor performance this season.
It's like a scratched record isn't it, people moaning about Rooney, me pointing out how poor everyone else has been, but people ignoring that. I don't care about the debuts in Feyenoord, they should have played better regardless of that.
As Jim has pointed out to Batty, people seem to be giving Martial a free pass, when he's been worse than Rooney so far this season, why is that? Januzaj didn't get this many games in his second season before people were calling for him to be dropped, and then got rid of. All it will take is 8 or 9 games without Rashford scoring and people in here and else where will be questioning his abilities.
If you are going to call one player out over being out of form, be prepared to call them all out if needs must, rather than just the latest scapegoat.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Is that kind of tone really necessary? I'd calm down a bit, if I were you. You might not have to ask where everyone is, if you didn't speak to people disagreeing with you in such a petulant, condescending manner.
Interesting that you're giving Martial a free pass here, considering that we're talking about this season in isolation.
Anyway, you're obviously incapable of understanding that I'm simply speculating on what I think that Mourinho might do. You don't seem to realise the difference between that, and my opinion of what we should do, so I'll take my leave.”
“Is that kind of tone really necessary? I'd calm down a bit, if I were you. You might not have to ask where everyone is, if you didn't speak to people disagreeing with you in such a petulant, condescending manner.
Interesting that you're giving Martial a free pass here, considering that we're talking about this season in isolation.
Anyway, you're obviously incapable of understanding that I'm simply speculating on what I think that Mourinho might do. You don't seem to realise the difference between that, and my opinion of what we should do, so I'll take my leave.”
What tone of voice? I am perfectly calm, we are just having a nice friendly chat about the team as far as I am concerned from my perspective anyway.
I am not condescending to you or anyone else in this topic of conversation, so if you are taking it that way, then I am sorry to hear that.
As for your points on, on Martial, yes as I said, he needs to be more consistent this season, and certainly needs to up his game more often, I am not giving him a free pass, it is just that there is more of an upside with him, then there is with Rooney, that is the key difference as far as I am looking at things.
We are both speculating about what José might or should do, we are just coming at this from different ways of looking at things, neither of us has any more or less of an idea than the other, so it is just a bit of fun to try and speculate on here, as we both want the best for the club.
Originally Posted by Tribec:
“Was I justifying Rooney's form??? I pointed out that in the only other game that Rooney was absent the team was woeful. You can't blame that poor performance on him, as you have every other poor performance this season.
It's like a scratched record isn't it, people moaning about Rooney, me pointing out how poor everyone else has been, but people ignoring that. I don't care about the debuts in Feyenoord, they should have played better regardless of that.
As Jim has pointed out to Batty, people seem to be giving Martial a free pass, when he's been worse than Rooney so far this season, why is that? Januzaj didn't get this many games in his second season before people were calling for him to be dropped, and then got rid of. All it will take is 8 or 9 games without Rashford scoring and people in here and else where will be questioning his abilities.
If you are going to call one player out over being out of form, be prepared to call them all out if needs must, rather than just the latest scapegoat.”
“Was I justifying Rooney's form??? I pointed out that in the only other game that Rooney was absent the team was woeful. You can't blame that poor performance on him, as you have every other poor performance this season.
It's like a scratched record isn't it, people moaning about Rooney, me pointing out how poor everyone else has been, but people ignoring that. I don't care about the debuts in Feyenoord, they should have played better regardless of that.
As Jim has pointed out to Batty, people seem to be giving Martial a free pass, when he's been worse than Rooney so far this season, why is that? Januzaj didn't get this many games in his second season before people were calling for him to be dropped, and then got rid of. All it will take is 8 or 9 games without Rashford scoring and people in here and else where will be questioning his abilities.
If you are going to call one player out over being out of form, be prepared to call them all out if needs must, rather than just the latest scapegoat.”
If I may just say in response to the point regarding Martial, I have tried to explain my feelings over that in the above post.
Originally Posted by Tribec:
“Was I justifying Rooney's form??? I pointed out that in the only other game that Rooney was absent the team was woeful. You can't blame that poor performance on him, as you have every other poor performance this season.
It's like a scratched record isn't it, people moaning about Rooney, me pointing out how poor everyone else has been, but people ignoring that. I don't care about the debuts in Feyenoord, they should have played better regardless of that.
As Jim has pointed out to Batty, people seem to be giving Martial a free pass, when he's been worse than Rooney so far this season, why is that? Januzaj didn't get this many games in his second season before people were calling for him to be dropped, and then got rid of. All it will take is 8 or 9 games without Rashford scoring and people in here and else where will be questioning his abilities.
If you are going to call one player out over being out of form, be prepared to call them all out if needs must, rather than just the latest scapegoat.”
“Was I justifying Rooney's form??? I pointed out that in the only other game that Rooney was absent the team was woeful. You can't blame that poor performance on him, as you have every other poor performance this season.
It's like a scratched record isn't it, people moaning about Rooney, me pointing out how poor everyone else has been, but people ignoring that. I don't care about the debuts in Feyenoord, they should have played better regardless of that.
As Jim has pointed out to Batty, people seem to be giving Martial a free pass, when he's been worse than Rooney so far this season, why is that? Januzaj didn't get this many games in his second season before people were calling for him to be dropped, and then got rid of. All it will take is 8 or 9 games without Rashford scoring and people in here and else where will be questioning his abilities.
If you are going to call one player out over being out of form, be prepared to call them all out if needs must, rather than just the latest scapegoat.”
I'm not calling out one player but you seem to be insistant that everyone else has been poor, well I have to disagree, there are at least three players who have been generally decent so far including Bailly, Mata and Rashford. I could chuck in a few more but I'll start with them.
I could bring up your criticisms of certain players including Smalling and Carrick if you want to start discussing scapegoating or your continued defence of Evans despite his shortcomings whilst at Utd.
Ibrahimovic 'definitely' starts, tomorrow.
Shaw (ill) and Mkhitaryan (not fit enough) 'definitely' won't.
Rooney (niggle) is unlikely to.
So says the gaffer.
Shaw (ill) and Mkhitaryan (not fit enough) 'definitely' won't.
Rooney (niggle) is unlikely to.
So says the gaffer.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Ibrahimovic 'definitely' starts, tomorrow.
Shaw (ill) and Mkhitaryan (not fit enough) 'definitely' won't.
Rooney (niggle) is unlikely to.
So says the gaffer.”
“Ibrahimovic 'definitely' starts, tomorrow.
Shaw (ill) and Mkhitaryan (not fit enough) 'definitely' won't.
Rooney (niggle) is unlikely to.
So says the gaffer.”
His back is hurt from sitting on the bench
Trying to have a conversation with a rooney lover is literally the most frustrating thing I have ever done in my life. Their only defence of rooney is, "but his stats show he is the best in our team!"
I mean, jesus christ, stats mean nothing at all.
I mean, jesus christ, stats mean nothing at all.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Ibrahimovic 'definitely' starts, tomorrow.
Shaw (ill) and Mkhitaryan (not fit enough) 'definitely' won't.
Rooney (niggle) is unlikely to.
So says the gaffer.”
“Ibrahimovic 'definitely' starts, tomorrow.
Shaw (ill) and Mkhitaryan (not fit enough) 'definitely' won't.
Rooney (niggle) is unlikely to.
So says the gaffer.”
Thanks for the update, I missed the press conference today.
So Ibra to start, that should hopefully get his confidence up a bit, not that he needs it of course!!
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Thanks for the update, I missed the press conference today.
So Ibra to start, that should hopefully get his confidence up a bit, not that he needs it of course!!”
“Thanks for the update, I missed the press conference today.
So Ibra to start, that should hopefully get his confidence up a bit, not that he needs it of course!!
”
I'd rather be saving him for Stoke, but needs must, I guess.
Gutted about Mkhitaryan. I thought that this might be the game to get him up and running in a United shirt.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“I'd rather be saving him for Stoke, but needs must, I guess.”
“I'd rather be saving him for Stoke, but needs must, I guess.”
I imagine he'd be rested if Rooney (and Martial) were available for selection. This would've been the match to rest him in. As the season progresses and the fixtures pile up, the Europa League can take its toll on the players.
With it being Stoke with the form they're in at the moment it shouldn't be a problem.
Originally Posted by Schmiznurf:
“Trying to have a conversation with a rooney lover is literally the most frustrating thing I have ever done in my life. Their only defence of rooney is, "but his stats show he is the best in our team!"
I mean, jesus christ, stats mean nothing at all.”
“Trying to have a conversation with a rooney lover is literally the most frustrating thing I have ever done in my life. Their only defence of rooney is, "but his stats show he is the best in our team!"
I mean, jesus christ, stats mean nothing at all.”
No it's when they use the poor form of others to justify his poor form that irks me.
Bryan Robson saying that he should be the first name on the team sheet. What is it with some of these ex Utd players? Sammy McIlroy getting all tetchy after a caller on MUTV criticised Rooney a few days back.
Originally Posted by TheMunch:
“I imagine he'd be rested if Rooney (and Martial) were available for selection. This would've been the match to rest him in. As the season progresses and the fixtures pile up, the Europa League can take its toll on the players.”
“I imagine he'd be rested if Rooney (and Martial) were available for selection. This would've been the match to rest him in. As the season progresses and the fixtures pile up, the Europa League can take its toll on the players.”
Interestingly, Mourinho alluded to Rooney being just about fit enough to play, but that the niggle meant that he wouldn't be at 100%. He went on to suggest that he couldn't play him due to the pasting that he'd get in the press, if he wasn't brilliant.
You could read that in one of a few ways.
EDIT: Here's the quote:
“I was completely convinced of playing him tomorrow. I’m not sure if I do that because with the situation that you create to him I think he really can’t afford to have a performance that is not really good and I am here to protect him and have to analyse the best thing for him. If he is not totally ready for it, I will discuss that with the medical staff.”
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Interestingly, Mourinho alluded to Rooney being just about fit enough to play, but that the niggle meant that he wouldn't be at 100%. He went on to suggest that he couldn't play him due to the pasting that he'd get in the press, if he wasn't brilliant.
You could read that in one of a few ways.”
“Interestingly, Mourinho alluded to Rooney being just about fit enough to play, but that the niggle meant that he wouldn't be at 100%. He went on to suggest that he couldn't play him due to the pasting that he'd get in the press, if he wasn't brilliant.
You could read that in one of a few ways.”
Sounds like he's trying to remove him from the line of fire.
Tbh after all the shennanigans with Alladyce and the fallout from that I don't think Rooney is top of the list for headline writers at the moment.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Interestingly, Mourinho alluded to Rooney being just about fit enough to play, but that the niggle meant that he wouldn't be at 100%. He went on to suggest that he couldn't play him due to the pasting that he'd get in the press, if he wasn't brilliant.
You could read that in one of a few ways.
EDIT: Here's the quote:
“I was completely convinced of playing him tomorrow. I’m not sure if I do that because with the situation that you create to him I think he really can’t afford to have a performance that is not really good and I am here to protect him and have to analyse the best thing for him. If he is not totally ready for it, I will discuss that with the medical staff.””
“Interestingly, Mourinho alluded to Rooney being just about fit enough to play, but that the niggle meant that he wouldn't be at 100%. He went on to suggest that he couldn't play him due to the pasting that he'd get in the press, if he wasn't brilliant.
You could read that in one of a few ways.
EDIT: Here's the quote:
“I was completely convinced of playing him tomorrow. I’m not sure if I do that because with the situation that you create to him I think he really can’t afford to have a performance that is not really good and I am here to protect him and have to analyse the best thing for him. If he is not totally ready for it, I will discuss that with the medical staff.””
Just a convenient way or an excuse to not have to play him really, nothing more than that.
José has seen that we play better without him, and that he is no longer a key player for us anymore, so is just using any probable press criticism as a smokescreen to not have to play him.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“I'd rather be saving him for Stoke, but needs must, I guess.
Gutted about Mkhitaryan. I thought that this might be the game to get him up and running in a United shirt.”
“I'd rather be saving him for Stoke, but needs must, I guess.
Gutted about Mkhitaryan. I thought that this might be the game to get him up and running in a United shirt.”
I really cannot wait for Miki to get going, as he is just such a talented player, once he does we will be such an attractive side to watch, as he brings so many upsides, hopefully he will be in the side sooner rather than later.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Interestingly, Mourinho alluded to Rooney being just about fit enough to play, but that the niggle meant that he wouldn't be at 100%. He went on to suggest that he couldn't play him due to the pasting that he'd get in the press, if he wasn't brilliant.
You could read that in one of a few ways.
EDIT: Here's the quote:
“I was completely convinced of playing him tomorrow. I’m not sure if I do that because with the situation that you create to him I think he really can’t afford to have a performance that is not really good and I am here to protect him and have to analyse the best thing for him. If he is not totally ready for it, I will discuss that with the medical staff.””
“Interestingly, Mourinho alluded to Rooney being just about fit enough to play, but that the niggle meant that he wouldn't be at 100%. He went on to suggest that he couldn't play him due to the pasting that he'd get in the press, if he wasn't brilliant.
You could read that in one of a few ways.
EDIT: Here's the quote:
“I was completely convinced of playing him tomorrow. I’m not sure if I do that because with the situation that you create to him I think he really can’t afford to have a performance that is not really good and I am here to protect him and have to analyse the best thing for him. If he is not totally ready for it, I will discuss that with the medical staff.””
Odd thing to say. Rooney bigger than the team?
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Just a convenient way or an excuse to not have to play him really, nothing more than that.
José has seen that we play better without him, and that he is no longer a key player for us anymore, so is just using any probable press criticism as a smokescreen to not have to play him.”
“Just a convenient way or an excuse to not have to play him really, nothing more than that.
José has seen that we play better without him, and that he is no longer a key player for us anymore, so is just using any probable press criticism as a smokescreen to not have to play him.”
Why would he need an 'excuse', or 'smokescreen'?
If that were the case, he would have had to tell Rooney the 'real' reason anyway. So he may as well come out and just say that he's not playing, because he's out of form/needs a rest/whatever.
Rooney doesn't need to be a 'key player' to play in a game like this. It's a home game against a relative minnow.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Why would he need an 'excuse', or 'smokescreen'?
If that were the case, he would have had to tell Rooney the 'real' reason anyway. So he may as well come out and just say that he's not playing, because he's out of form/needs a rest/whatever.
Rooney doesn't need to be a 'key player' to play in a game like this. It's a home game against a relative minnow.”
“Why would he need an 'excuse', or 'smokescreen'?
If that were the case, he would have had to tell Rooney the 'real' reason anyway. So he may as well come out and just say that he's not playing, because he's out of form/needs a rest/whatever.
Rooney doesn't need to be a 'key player' to play in a game like this. It's a home game against a relative minnow.”
It is just a way to quietly get him out of the team, without creating that much of a fuss.
If José were to come out and say something along the lines of "I don't rate Rooney anymore", as a reason for him to not be starting games, then that would create a heck of a lot of negative headlines, so much better to just create a different reason for him to not be in the side.
It might only be a match against a relative minnow, but due to us getting beat in the first game, it is now a must win game, if we do wish to get out of the group, or even to top the group, and hence we will need to put out players who are more likely then not to do well in the match.
At the moment, Rooney just doesn't look like he is capable of scoring goals, which is what a striker needs to be capable of doing.
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