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Man United Supporters Thread (Part 50)


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Old 08-11-2016, 21:38
Jim De Ville
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What if the comments now mean those two start to fight back, to prove to the fans who have stuck by them through many an injury that Jose is wrong, that they will run through brick walls for this club? Neither have a good record with injuries, be it due to bad tackles or just pulls and strains. Also Shaw on arriving was called out by LVG, so something behind his fitness for sure.

Fergie called players out in public when he felt he needed too, it can help in certain cases.
From what I've read, this is Mourinho's MO.

He'll be expecting them to respond in a determined manner, I suspect. Testing them, perhaps.

We've been missing the right attitude for a while. Let's hope that this bucks some ideas up.
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Old 08-11-2016, 23:15
RichmondBlue
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Saying that a team dropped points, in this case my own, implies just that, that we didn't win the game, it doesn't mean we were the better side, or the poorer side, just that we simply didn't end up getting the three points at full time.

Making judgements on what sort of match it was, who had more attacks, etc, is for the actual analysis.
Sorry to butt-in. But I can't see how a drawing a game away from home to a rival title contender can be considered as "dropped points". Surely it was Liverpool who dropped points ?
I'd be satisfied if Chelsea shared the points with Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and yourselves away from home. But I'd want to see us win those games at home. Achieve that and you've a fair chance of winning the title, providing you don't throw away silly points in other games of course.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:22
NorthernNinny
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Sorry to butt-in. But I can't see how a drawing a game away from home to a rival title contender can be considered as "dropped points". Surely it was Liverpool who dropped points ?
I'd be satisfied if Chelsea shared the points with Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and yourselves away from home. But I'd want to see us win those games at home. Achieve that and you've a fair chance of winning the title, providing you don't throw away silly points in other games of course.
Isn't that what Chelsea were good at under Jose, get at least a point against the rivals away but aim for a win at home?
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:57
Malbren
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As for the Liverpool match itself, what do you mean when you say Jose got what he wanted out of the match?? If you asked him, would he have wanted a draw or a win, I would definitely say that he would have wanted the win more so than a draw, and even more so than a defeat.
So I disagree with your thinking that we only wanted the draw and nothing else, we wanted the victory, and we almost got it.
How so with not a shot on target?
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Old 09-11-2016, 16:42
Danny_Francis
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Jose set us up in a way where he did not want us to lose the game, but was hoping for us to nick the game on the counter. We had the majority of the possession in the first half, without looking too threatening. Apart the from the Zlatan chance we didn't create too many chances, Liverpool had few opportunities at the end and could have won it at the end with the Can chance, and Valencia's last minute interception. I would say it was a point gained because if we had approached it differently, and Liverpool who were IMO not at their best on the night it could've been different. I just wonder as a Utd fan these days us playing against the more footballing sides, as I don't think that aspect of our game is all together yet; more often than not we'd get beaten by most footballing sides playing openly so that's why Mourinho sets us up the way he does in big games for now. Until we improve on certain things that's the way it's got to be
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Old 09-11-2016, 17:28
Jim De Ville
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A few bits and pieces around, today.

Mkhitaryan:

“It is true that I get little time on the field, but I am not going to give in.”

“I went a long way to play in Manchester United, so nothing will prevent me from achieving my dream.

“I will not retreat, I will find the strength to reach my goal.”

Griezmann:

“I always ask Paul Pogba about Manchester United. I think they are a huge club with a really good infrastructure.

“I ask Paul about some of the players, and if they’re really that good, or if Jose Mourinho is really that good.

“You hear a lot of things (speculation) about Manchester United and Paris St Germain but right now I don’t see me moving to a new club. But It would be awesome to play alongside Paul one day.”

In other news, the club are supposedly ready to offer Schweinsteiger €11m to do one, in January, they 'would consider' appointing Scholes to the U-23 job, and the chairman of Beijing FC has reiterated that they made a move for Rooney, in the summer.
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Old 09-11-2016, 17:51
batdude_uk1
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It will be interesting to see who follows Joyce, and gets his now former job, as I don't know if anyone who is actually interested in a first team managers job would take it, and I don't know if just giving it to one member of the Class of '92, just because of his name is the best idea either.

We should try send look to appoint the best coach for that role in the club.
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Old 09-11-2016, 18:01
sixtynine
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A few bits and pieces around, today.

Mkhitaryan:

“It is true that I get little time on the field, but I am not going to give in.”

“I went a long way to play in Manchester United, so nothing will prevent me from achieving my dream.

“I will not retreat, I will find the strength to reach my goal.”
Liking the fighting talk from Mikhitaryan.
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Old 09-11-2016, 22:22
Jim De Ville
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It will be interesting to see who follows Joyce, and gets his now former job, as I don't know if anyone who is actually interested in a first team managers job would take it, and I don't know if just giving it to one member of the Class of '92, just because of his name is the best idea either.

We should try send look to appoint the best coach for that role in the club.
You don't say.

Perhaps Scholes will end up being the best candidate available. He's done a bit of coaching with the youth teams before. As it happens, I'd be surprised if he was interested.

Liking the fighting talk from Mikhitaryan.
Me too. It should be exactly what Mourinho wants to hear.
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Old 09-11-2016, 22:28
RichmondBlue
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Isn't that what Chelsea were good at under Jose, get at least a point against the rivals away but aim for a win at home?
Yes, I would say so. Jose is a pragmatist and it seems like a perfectly logical approach to me. Neutrals might like to watch a gung-ho, end-to-end game. But I think if fans are honest, they'd take a result over entertainment every time.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:07
Tribec
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Yes, I would say so. Jose is a pragmatist and it seems like a perfectly logical approach to me. Neutrals might like to watch a gung-ho, end-to-end game. But I think if fans are honest, they'd take a result over entertainment every time.
The problem being is that for so long at United, it's been a case of both things going hand in hand. That goes beyond Fergie and back to Busby. The situation we find ourselves in now is that we need to make this team difficult to beat once more and if that means boring football, defending deep (note no mention of buses), and grinding out points and wins so be it. Once the foundations are in place, then you start to add the flair, and entertainment factor.

For many, they thought that the side Fergie left was a great one, it was good, but only as good as the rest of the league. We didn't improve the squad that summer for what ever reasons, others did and we got left behind. It's now manager number 3 since that point we've got to rebuild the foundations, just as Fergie did, but hopefully that isn't going to take 4 years, as in this day and age a manager only gets a quarter of that time if that to do this job.
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Old 10-11-2016, 18:33
ags_rule
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The problem being is that for so long at United, it's been a case of both things going hand in hand. That goes beyond Fergie and back to Busby. The situation we find ourselves in now is that we need to make this team difficult to beat once more and if that means boring football, defending deep (note no mention of buses), and grinding out points and wins so be it. Once the foundations are in place, then you start to add the flair, and entertainment factor.

For many, they thought that the side Fergie left was a great one, it was good, but only as good as the rest of the league. We didn't improve the squad that summer for what ever reasons, others did and we got left behind. It's now manager number 3 since that point we've got to rebuild the foundations, just as Fergie did, but hopefully that isn't going to take 4 years, as in this day and age a manager only gets a quarter of that time if that to do this job.
BIB - I strongly disagree with this.

Fergie knew when United were the weaker side. The idea that we went gung-ho in every match simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The most notable example would be when we beat Barcelona in the semi-final. That was pure park the bus and hit on the counter.

Even the last couple of seasons under his stewardship we saw a Manchester United who were distinctly less attacking than in the past, largely in part to accomodate an ageing (but still class) Scholes in midfield.

I don't see Jose as being any different in that regard. The Burnley and Stoke results were absolutely ludicrous, farcical results that if they happened in FIFA 17 you would restart the match because you'd be convinced the computer had determined you weren't going to score. In both matches, we clearly set out to attack. The Liverpool gameplan was a difficult pill to swallow but a necessary one - they are the better team right now. I have no doubts Fergie would have done the same thing.
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Old 11-11-2016, 11:17
batdude_uk1
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Anyone else wishing that this international break would hurry up and be over with, so that we can get back to league action, or is it just me?
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Old 11-11-2016, 12:30
Jim De Ville
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BIB - I strongly disagree with this.

Fergie knew when United were the weaker side. The idea that we went gung-ho in every match simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The most notable example would be when we beat Barcelona in the semi-final. That was pure park the bus and hit on the counter.

Even the last couple of seasons under his stewardship we saw a Manchester United who were distinctly less attacking than in the past, largely in part to accomodate an ageing (but still class) Scholes in midfield.

I don't see Jose as being any different in that regard. The Burnley and Stoke results were absolutely ludicrous, farcical results that if they happened in FIFA 17 you would restart the match because you'd be convinced the computer had determined you weren't going to score. In both matches, we clearly set out to attack. The Liverpool gameplan was a difficult pill to swallow but a necessary one - they are the better team right now. I have no doubts Fergie would have done the same thing.
Can't argue with any of that.

There's a lot of misty-eyed nonsense written about Ferguson, and 'the United way'.

I'm also yet to witness Mourinho 'parking the bus' with United, unless you're counting the last half an hour against Liverpool.

United will have the majority of the possession, and will be the more attacking side, in most matches. Against better sides, it makes sense to go for a more controlled, cautious approach. I don't see it as a problem.
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Old 11-11-2016, 13:13
batdude_uk1
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Can't argue with any of that.

There's a lot of misty-eyed nonsense written about Ferguson, and 'the United way'.

I'm also yet to witness Mourinho 'parking the bus' with United, unless you're counting the last half an hour against Liverpool.

United will have the majority of the possession, and will be the more attacking side, in most matches. Against better sides, it makes sense to go for a more controlled, cautious approach. I don't see it as a problem.
There is no such thing as the "United Way", people just like to pretend that there is.

Plenty of times we have been defensive under Sir Alex, most times in fact when we went to Anfield, we were on the defensive side, especially towards the end of his tenure.

As for this season, we have been incredibly unlucky to have dripped points in the Burnley and Stoke matches especially, but also in the Liverpool match, where we did have the chance to come away with the three points.

If we can keep attacking as well as we have been recently, then surely we will win more matches than we have been so far, hopefully that continues against Arsenal, as we sure need to start beating some of the sides above us.
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Old 11-11-2016, 13:45
Tribec
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Why do people think that going gung ho is the United way? For me, when I said it goes hand in hand, wasn't gung ho, it was entertaining football and winning. You can't do that every week, every fan knows that and some games you have to defend more than others and grind out results.

The thing with the "United way" is that we entertain when we can. The famous line from Busby to Charlton about entertaining the mill workers on a Saturday is where the basis of the United way came from and in essence Fergie's team did just that, they evolved the style over the years, but they entertained.

As I said in the original post to be able to do that though, you have to get the defense sorted and build up from the back, Jose's Madrid team was at times stunning to watch, but he had the tools already when he arrived to take over at Real. He's going to have to bring the players in to get into that position and in that period I don't care how we win, as along as we win. Then when we are winning we can add the flair and play how this club is known to play.

We should also note that the use of traditional wingers have long since vanished, which was another trait that was a part of the United way, so we are seeing an evolution in that sense, but lets just give Jose the time to craft a team that will first win, then let that team evolve to entertain us.
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Old 11-11-2016, 16:18
TheSloth
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The SAF way was simply to take the game to the opposition wherever possible and never believe it's over. His liking for an expansive 4-4-2 with overlapping fullbacks suited the philosophy - having a successful manager for a quarter of a century gives a neat illustration that there's a "way".
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Old 11-11-2016, 16:33
toastie15
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Smalling out for a month with broken toe
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Old 11-11-2016, 16:48
Jim De Ville
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Smalling out for a month with broken toe
Reportedly not diagnosed until after Mourinho's comments, at the weekend.
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Old 11-11-2016, 17:24
NorthernNinny
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Reportedly not diagnosed until after Mourinho's comments, at the weekend.
So has it not been picked up by the medics earlier or is it a recent injury? I broke my toe trying to shift some furniture down the stairs and two of my toes swelled up and they bloody hurt. No doubt in my mind what the injury was.

Obviously I couldn't have an X ray but I doubt that wouldn't not be available to Smalling.

It is odd that it's come out now.
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Old 11-11-2016, 17:31
Jim De Ville
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So has it not been picked up by the medics earlier or is it a recent injury? I broke my toe trying to shift some furniture down the stairs and two of my toes swelled up and they bloody hurt. No doubt in my mind what the injury was.

Obviously I couldn't have an X ray but I doubt that wouldn't not be available to Smalling.

It is odd that it's come out now.
It's all speculation, but the report that I heard suggested that he'd not actually broken his toe until this week.

Who knows, though?
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:13
batdude_uk1
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Either way Smalling being out doesn't exactly help in terms of available centre backs, going into a very high profile and priority game against Arsenal.
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:18
Jim De Ville
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I just hope that Mourinho would prefer a win, rather than a draw or defeat.
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:25
batdude_uk1
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I just hope that Mourinho would prefer a win, rather than a draw or defeat.
Well that would of course be the sensible thing to think.
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:36
Jim De Ville
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