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Man United Supporters Thread (Part 50)
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batdude_uk1
01-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Easy.

Martial on the left, Mata in the middle, Mkhitaryan on the right, with Ibrahimovic up top.”

I support services with Rooney suspended that is a tad easier to do, but does that mean Rashford starting on the bench then?

Originally Posted by TheSloth:
“"playing very well" is different to "playing the best football in the league" as others have said. Also, some of United's best players last night (Zlatan, Rooney, Carrick and Mkhitaryan) haven't got the legs (through either age or match fitness) to sustain the great football you played in the first 15 minutes over 90 minutes. Pogba is more laconic also when he plays.

If Mkhitaryan plays - and plays like he can - regularly then that's an added dynamism that will make a big difference as it's the sustained intensity that wears teams down and ensures more of those chances lead to goals.

Simply creating chances through possession - as Liverpool so ably demonstrated against Burnley - is no indication of playing well at all - we had 26 shots that day and were universally panned (rightly) for our all-round performance.

United's team balance was good last night in central midfield and in the wide positions - not sure it's a guarantee of success away from home though - and looks the best bet at Old Traffiord for getting at teams.”

You make some fair points, I guess it is down to each individual to judge for themselves just which team is playing the best at the moment, personally I think we are (we are just not finishing teams off as we should be doing though).

The players creating the chances, be it Mata, Miki, Lingard, Martial, or Rooney, have all been doing their jobs, it is just Rashford and Ibra which have not, if they had been, then we would be far more closer (if not in it) to the top four.
Jim De Ville
01-12-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“I support services with Rooney suspended that is a tad easier to do, but does that mean Rashford starting on the bench then?”

Yes.

Rashford's been ineffective, this season. A few games on the bench might do him some good. Let him come on in the closing stages when the opposition is tired. I think that he'll get more opportunities that way.

Martial's just scored a couple of goals and had a decent game. Keep him in the side to see if that's boosted his morale/confidence a bit.
NorthernNinny
01-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Yes.

Rashford's been ineffective, this season. A few games on the bench might do him some good. Let him come on in the closing stages when the opposition is tired. I think that he'll get more opportunities that way.

Martial's just scored a couple of goals and had a decent game. Keep him in the side to see if that's boosted his morale/confidence a bit.”

Yeah I agree.
batdude_uk1
01-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Yes.

Rashford's been ineffective, this season. A few games on the bench might do him some good. Let him come on in the closing stages when the opposition is tired. I think that he'll get more opportunities that way.

Martial's just scored a couple of goals and had a decent game. Keep him in the side to see if that's boosted his morale/confidence a bit.”

So a midfield with Carrick, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Martial, and Miki, does seem to be one too many there, who gets dropped, as currently they have all got very good cases to start games.

If we have Martial on the left, Miki right, Mata through the middle, where does that leave the other three? Pogba due to his performances and price tag, you would think, would have to start, but then who gets dropped out of Herrera and Carrick?
Very tough choice there!

If we are playing with Ibra upfront, then we can't fit them all in can we? Plus a back four and if course De Get, only playing eleven, does narrow things down somewhat!

Someone is going to have to be left out, I wouldn't really want to be making that call currently.
Jim De Ville
01-12-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“So a midfield with Carrick, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Martial, and Miki, does seem to be one too many there, who gets dropped, as currently they have all got very good cases to start games.

If we have Martial on the left, Miki right, Mata through the middle, where does that leave the other three? Pogba due to his performances and price tag, you would think, would have to start, but then who gets dropped out of Herrera and Carrick?
Very tough choice there!

If we are playing with Ibra upfront, then we can't fit them all in can we? Plus a back four and if course De Get, only playing eleven, does narrow things down somewhat!

Someone is going to have to be left out, I wouldn't really want to be making that call currently.”

I'd be surprised if Carrick plays again. Two games in a week, and all that.

I'd basically be happy to see the same side, but with Mata and Pogba in for Rooney and Carrick.

Of course, Mourinho will probably drop Mkhitaryan and Martial for Lingard and Rashford. Or Ashley Young.
batdude_uk1
01-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“I'd be surprised if Carrick plays again. Two games in a week, and all that.

I'd basically be happy to see the same side, but with Mata and Pogba in for Rooney and Carrick.

Of course, Mourinho will probably drop Mkhitaryan and Martial for Lingard and Rashford. Or Ashley Young.”

If it were a different game, then I could see something like that happening, but Everton away, is one mighty tough game, and I wouldn't really want to see a side starting that without Carrick in it.
Surely he can be rested for the long trip in the Europa League?

I hope that Carrick and Mata both somehow can play, although where that leaves the rest of the midfield I don't know, I guess that is the trouble when you have so many player who are all playing so well, you just don't know who to not play!

Perhaps dropping Herrera, to allow a midfield of Carrick, Mata, Miki, Martial and Pogba might work (a lot of surnames beginning with the letter "M" there!)?
Although of course, Herrera has been playing so well.as of late, that it would be harsh indeed to not play him, such a tough call!
NorthernNinny
01-12-2016
I will lose it if Lingard starts on Sunday!
Tribec
01-12-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“I will lose it if Lingard starts on Sunday!”

He's due a wonder goal, so putting him in might be a good idea Miki did well against and English side which I discussed after the game last Thursday. I'm more convinced about him starting now, but circumstances might mean bringing him from the bench.

I think Sunday may be interesting in terms of Schwiny if he's being considered as part of the squad or Jose has been putting him in the shop window. He could do the Carrick role if Carrick can't, last night was a great cameo but as with Miki, we need to build his match fitness up.

Sunday's team as with any other game could be one of any number of permutations, but I think this one is going to be very interesting with fewer and fewer players out injured, and suspension, plus form being relatively good. I know I'm going to struggle with my team selection contest 11 this weekend.
NorthernNinny
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Tribec:
“He's due a wonder goal, so putting him in might be a good idea Miki did well against and English side which I discussed after the game last Thursday. I'm more convinced about him starting now, but circumstances might mean bringing him from the bench.

I think Sunday may be interesting in terms of Schwiny if he's being considered as part of the squad or Jose has been putting him in the shop window. He could do the Carrick role if Carrick can't, last night was a great cameo but as with Miki, we need to build his match fitness up.

Sunday's team as with any other game could be one of any number of permutations, but I think this one is going to be very interesting with fewer and fewer players out injured, and suspension, plus form being relatively good. I know I'm going to struggle with my team selection contest 11 this weekend.”

He probably is due a wondergoal but I'd rather he did it off the bench. You should play your best 11 and he isn't a part of that imo.
LuvJamTarts
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by Tribec:
“He's due a wonder goal, so putting him in might be a good idea ”

The 2 seconds of goal will never remove the other 93 mins of total ineffectual absent crap he comes up with though.
batdude_uk1
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by LuvJamTarts:
“The 2 seconds of goal will never remove the other 93 mins of total ineffectual absent crap he comes up with though.”

If it is a winning goal, then I wouldn't mind the ineffectual play before or after too much!
Tribec
02-12-2016
Originally Posted by LuvJamTarts:
“The 2 seconds of goal will never remove the other 93 mins of total ineffectual absent crap he comes up with though.”

I've only seen one or two performances from him to this level. Mind you as a home grown player he has to do twice as much to impress everyone. It won't be long before people will be on Rashford's back if his relative poor form continues.

Lingard has been very effective for us, and apart from the odd game done the job asked of him way better than others have done. If he does nothing in a game every game as suggested then how has he earned a call up to his national side??
NorthernNinny
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Tribec:
“I've only seen one or two performances from him to this level. Mind you as a home grown player he has to do twice as much to impress everyone. It won't be long before people will be on Rashford's back if his relative poor form continues.

Lingard has been very effective for us, and apart from the odd game done the job asked of him way better than others have done. If he does nothing in a game every game as suggested then how has he earned a call up to his national side??”

Oh come on. I could also argue that being home grown gives him a free pass that others wouldn't be allowed.

A job done? He's playing for Manchester United, not Macclesfield town.

As for the National side call up, better players have been overlooked for England, how many caps did Steve Bruce or Andy Cole get?
Jim De Ville
03-12-2016
I'm in the middle, when it comes to Lingard.

I don't think that he's 'crap', and he's worth having as a squad player.

That said, there's no way that he should be getting in the side ahead of Mkhitaryan.
NorthernNinny
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“I'm in the middle, when it comes to Lingard.

I don't think that he's 'crap', and he's worth having as a squad player.

That said, there's no way that he should be getting in the side ahead of Mkhitaryan.”

Yeah he shouldn't be starting but he is a good squad player. There are better options now.
batdude_uk1
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“I'm in the middle, when it comes to Lingard.

I don't think that he's 'crap', and he's worth having as a squad player.

That said, there's no way that he should be getting in the side ahead of Mkhitaryan.”

I don't really see the hate that he gets, whenever he is called upon he does a good job more often than not.

Is he the most talented player in his position, certainly not, but is he a player worth keeping (and not just for homegrown purposes)? Yes, I think he is.

He is a good squad player to have around, when the likes if Miki, Mata and Martial are not available or need a rest.
NorthernNinny
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“I don't really see the hate that he gets, whenever he is called upon he does a good job more often than not.

Is he the most talented player in his position, certainly not, but is he a player worth keeping (and not just for homegrown purposes)? Yes, I think he is.

He is a good squad player to have around, when the likes if Miki, Mata and Martial are not available or need a rest.”

For me it's like when Fellani starts and you just think 'why?' There are better options.

No problem with him as a squad player
batdude_uk1
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“For me it's like when Fellani starts and you just think 'why?' There are better options.

No problem with him as a squad player”

I get and understand what you are saying, however I do think Fellaini is not quite as bad an option as perhaps he once was.

Saying that though, I still wouldn't have him in my first choice central midfield (Herrera and Carrick for me).
Tribec
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by NorthernNinny:
“Oh come on. I could also argue that being home grown gives him a free pass that others wouldn't be allowed.

A job done? He's playing for Manchester United, not Macclesfield town.

As for the National side call up, better players have been overlooked for England, how many caps did Steve Bruce or Andy Cole get?”

Actually it seems the home grown players get more flak, certainly on forums. Those in the ground tend to be more forgiving.

As for the job done quote. If he's asked to do a job and not be the fulcrum of the side with license to do anything, then it's job done. Both Brown and O'Shea had great season's at full back during Neville's injury woes and return. Neither were full backs, but I think we'd accept they got the job done. Lingard has done everything that's been asked of him, and rarely lets us down. As others have said it doesn't mean that he's automatic starter.

I made my point over Miki, and how we have to bed him into this team. My post was also in relation to someone suggesting he plays for 2 minutes per game and the rest of the game he's useless. I think we have all said he's far from that, and he's a useful part of the squad, my response was to the disparaging remarks.
Makosi's pants
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“I'm in the middle, when it comes to Lingard.

I don't think that he's 'crap', and he's worth having as a squad player.

That said, there's no way that he should be getting in the side ahead of Mkhitaryan.”

Agree with all of that. Lingard is kind of like a younger Ashley Cole... England quality... sort of... but nowhere near top prem/world class.

Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“I get and understand what you are saying, however I do think Fellaini is not quite as bad an option as perhaps he once was.

Saying that though, I still wouldn't have him in my first choice central midfield (Herrera and Carrick for me).”

Now that we have a quality midfield at last, Fellani is being shown up for the misfit option he always was no matter how much Jose bigs him up. This is the first time since we bought him that I'd be happy to see him go in Jan.
batdude_uk1
03-12-2016
We have to be careful not to get rid of too many central midfield options all at the same time, so if we were to say sell Fellaini and Schweini, then our depth in that area would be a tad depleted.

I would at this stage, only sell one of them.
zieler
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Tribec:
“Actually it seems the home grown players get more flak, certainly on forums. Those in the ground tend to be more forgiving.

As for the job done quote. If he's asked to do a job and not be the fulcrum of the side with license to do anything, then it's job done. Both Brown and O'Shea had great season's at full back during Neville's injury woes and return. Neither were full backs, but I think we'd accept they got the job done. Lingard has done everything that's been asked of him, and rarely lets us down. As others have said it doesn't mean that he's automatic starter.

I made my point over Miki, and how we have to bed him into this team. My post was also in relation to someone suggesting he plays for 2 minutes per game and the rest of the game he's useless. I think we have all said he's far from that, and he's a useful part of the squad, my response was to the disparaging remarks.”

Home grown players don't get more flak than other players. You just have to look at the amount of stick someone like Memphis has received to see that.

Originally Posted by Makosi's pants:
“Agree with all of that. Lingard is kind of like a younger Ashley Cole... England quality... sort of... but nowhere near top prem/world class.



Now that we have a quality midfield at last, Fellani is being shown up for the misfit option he always was no matter how much Jose bigs him up. This is the first time since we bought him that I'd be happy to see him go in Jan.”

I'm guessing you meant a different Cole...
Nova21
03-12-2016
I don't agree with the generalisation abiut home grown players getting a hard time, but the Memphis example isn't a good counter Imho.... Considering how poor he has been, he has got quite an easy ride and beem given a lot of leeway by the fans
zieler
03-12-2016
Originally Posted by Nova21:
“I don't agree with the generalisation abiut home grown players getting a hard time, but the Memphis example isn't a good counter Imho.... Considering how poor he has been, he has got quite an easy ride and beem given a lot of leeway by the fans”

Don't agree. He got a bit of leeway in the first few months of last season but as it went along he got a ton of stick and a lot of people think he should be sold at the earliest opportunity.
batdude_uk1
03-12-2016
Spurs winning, and significantly improving their GD, doesn't make our task tomorrow any easier, anything less than a win and it is yet more dropped points, and we really cannot allow this gap to keep on increasing to the top five teams.
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