It's not that we didn't spend big, at the core of the team and club were Manchester United players we had a bloodline of youth that helped build the foundations and contributed to the turning point of the Fergie years, the fledglings. Butt, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham and the Nevilles. On top of that we added quality, where necessary whether it was Cantona, RVN, Veron, Rio whatever. It was a well oiled machine, we had first teamers who were Mancunians and you could class as real Manchester Utd players really understood and grasped what it mean't to represent us. Even the O'sheas, Fletchers, Fortunes of this world knew what it was about. Now its spend, spend, spend. Aside from Rashford, Lingard and maybe Mensah how many youth players can you really see coming through and remaining first team players in the future? The new Manchester Utd model is akin to the Galatico theory and Pogba is the latest installment. Surely you can see the difference between current UTD and past?

It's a bit rich Moyes moaning about that when he was trying to sign Gareth Bale.

That's the way football is now unfortunately. You have to move on. We do have players in the squad who play for the shirt and they're not necessarily the home grown ones.

We outbid Madrid by all accounts and even Giggs was suppose to have had a word.

The sticking point was going to a club who had just lost a legendary manager and been replaced by one who won a top 4 place (a career highlight) but then failed to win a CL qualifier. It's not difficult to see why the pulling power for good players wasn't there.

Blaming the lack of summer transfers on Ed was a bit rich imo.

Yes, we offered around £100 million for Bale... so by Moyes' definition, he betrayed the club's traditions.

As for youth, those who are good enough in the academy will be given a chance in the first team and will thrive, there's no room in the squad for average players. Not every top club has an endless conveyor belt of young talent coming through, it's impossible to do it all the time. The Class of 92 were a one-off, you can't expect another batch of players like them. Ajax had a great team in the 90s made up of youth team players, but not anymore. Even Barcelona will struggle to reproduce players like Xavi and Iniesta, that's why they spent a load of money on Andre Gomes.

That said, I think the current batch of players coming through at United - Rashford, Lingard, and Fosu Mensah - are the best we've had in a while. Let's see what happens with Januzaj, he will probably leave, but I want to see what Mourinho can do with him before any decision is made to sell him on.

Maybe if the press could stop fawning over him they could bring up the fact that he suggested that he targeted Bale, Ronaldo and co which was hardly suggestive of maintaining so called Manchester United traditions.

I don't know how he gets away with chatting shite and the press seemingly unwilling to pull him up about it.

I know what you mean, and of course I would prefer to see young players in the first team, and there are options that we could see coming through in the future like Tunzabe, Gomes, Chong and maybe Gribbon.

We would all I think like to see another batch like the ever famous "Class of 1992 (plus Phil Neville)", but we were unbelievably fortunate to get as many through as we did, and the fact that they were as good as they were, was something that we should be very thankful for.

However in the current world it is all about the here and now, plus the competition levels are just that much higher, we cannot rely on the things that stood us apart from the rest in the past (good youth system, financial backing, and the size of our stadium for example), so we have to achieve our targets quicker than in the past, otherwise we could get left behind.

Merry Christmas, I hope that Santa will be kind to everyone in this thread!

We have had are ups and downs here between myself and some people here, but for one day, let's put that aside, and have some good tidings!

You're right, it's very lazy journalism. His accusations about United's lost "traditions" are false and contradictory and only serve to make him look all the more delusional when you look at the facts behind his claims. Why is it okay for Moyes to bid £100 million for Bale and target other top players, but not okay for Van Gaal and Mourinho to shell out big fees on top players? Hypocritical much?

I think only Moyes knows the answer to that question...

I imagine Christmas in the Moyes household consists of people listening to a bitter man rambling on, “Have I told you about that time when Man United sacked me?”

See there is talk of Di Maria going to China

So good to have some crimbo footy back on today.

Going to the dewsbury rams batley bulldogs game at lunch, then to american golf for the sales....then back for footy then turkey club sandwhiches.

Thst is living the dream.

Big win for united today 4 nil

We lost out on players even when Sir Alex were manager, so the idea of the manager being the sole reason why a player wouldn't come to United is silly. Look what happened with Ronaldinho and Sneijder, where was the pulling power of a good manager then?? Even Gazza went to Spurs after agreeing to come to us.

Ed failed in his duties that summer big style, he's the one who is tasked with negotiating the transfer deals after the manager identified the targets. We had won the league, in the Champions League again, one of the biggest clubs in the world, paying good money and he couldn't get people to come to the club...... That he's subsequently improved isn't an issue, he didn't do his job that first summer.

As always with these things, take them with a huge load of salt, but Martial to Sevilla on loan is getting traction on Twitter I see, hopefully that is just some more nonsense.

Mkhitaryan just scored a worldy

Once again Ibra does the business - ably assisted by Pogboom. Just as it was starting to get nervy - oh ffs Jose, I know you want to boost Fellani's confidence but why bother bringing him on... doesn't matter!!! Miki scores a worldy!!!

Pity we couldn't keep a clean sheet but the wins the thing. And it was a good win, we were always in control. But earlier on in the season that would have been a definite draw. Miki and Martial to start the next game please Jose.

Shame that we let them score right at the end, and another good three points, we just need some luck with the teams above us to drop some points, so that we can close the gaps, rather than they keep on remaining out of touch, so come on Hull, Stoke and Southampton, not that I have much faith in any of them getting even a single point between them sadly.

A real mixed bag from Ibra, I'll admit that I wouldn't have been shocked to see him go off at one point in the second half. He'd performed well defending set pieces for us, but otherwise till the goal he'd been wasteful. He then scored and the cross for Miki. Miki will rightly get the acclaim for the goal (even if it was off side), but Blind deserves some credit for it as well. He'd been part of the move that broke down just before the goal, but was the only player to close down the Sunderland player bringing the ball out. His challenge brought about the pass to Valencia who played it to Ibra.

That Sunderland goal was class as well, what a strike. Two great goals to finish the game off. Thought Sunderland did well till the second goal went in. On the whole they defended well and posed a bit of a threat, they should get out of the relegation zone if they can keep performing like that.

While Chelsea may be too far away the rest of the top 4 are getting closer.

Hope Sunderland go down personally.

Once again, we win when Carrick is in the side, he is proving just what a valuable member of the side he is, such a shame that he cannot go on forever!

That's maximum points since you wrote the season off and started picking the kids isn't it?

Possibly so, but I expect City to beat Hull, therefore, we will be four points behind Arsenal and Liverpool (with Liverpool having a game in hand), would be nice if we could get it down to just one result, rather than two as it is currently.

If it down to me our good form, then I will take the credit I suppose!

Another nice result, 4 successive wins in the league, 5 in all, 11 unbeaten, and we are solidly in the breakaway six mix. Still too soon to say we are solidly in the top 4 mix but a few more results like these and we will be. Today just shows once again how important it is to get 2 goals clear.

Happy days.