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Man United Supporters Thread (Part 50)


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Old 23-03-2016, 10:54
Conor McHale
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Schweinsteiger is injured again, this time it's his knee. Probably not helped that he's looked overweight since returning from his last injury.
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Old 23-03-2016, 10:59
Sebastian1992
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Van Gaal for me, hasn't given Schweinsteiger or Schneiderlin enough first team football.

Even though Schweinsteiger has had some injuries, it's hard to establish match sharpness if you're in and out of the team.

Mata has always been lightweight. If you build the team around him and protect him, he can be almost magical.
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Old 23-03-2016, 11:17
Jim De Ville
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Van Gaal for me, hasn't given Schweinsteiger or Schneiderlin enough first team football.

Even though Schweinsteiger has had some injuries, it's hard to establish match sharpness if you're in and out of the team.
Agree about Schneiderlin, but not Schweinsteiger.

He's been a pretty big disappointment, for me. There's a reason that Bayern Munich let him go for such a low fee.
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Old 23-03-2016, 11:24
Sebastian1992
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Agree about Schneiderlin, but not Schweinsteiger.

He's been a pretty big disappointment, for me. There's a reason that Bayern Munich let him go for such a low fee.
I still think he has the ability to be an influence, he just needs the time and space. Kind of like Carrick.
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Old 23-03-2016, 11:45
RevengeofthMojo
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Schweinsteiger's legs have gone.

He was always the box to box engine of a midfield. The guy to break stuff up and be a leader on the pitch.

Unfortunately, we got him five years too late.

Massive disappointment for me because everytime people used to say "we still haven't replaced Keane", I would always say Schweinsteiger would be my dream signing.
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Old 23-03-2016, 14:10
Sebastian1992
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Schweinsteiger's legs have gone.

He was always the box to box engine of a midfield. The guy to break stuff up and be a leader on the pitch.

Unfortunately, we got him five years too late.

Massive disappointment for me because everytime people used to say "we still haven't replaced Keane", I would always say Schweinsteiger would be my dream signing.
He has adapted his game though. He can be effective, he just isn't the same type of player he was..it's the same for Carrick. He started out as a box to box player, and he's not that now is he?
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Old 23-03-2016, 15:19
RevengeofthMojo
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He has adapted his game though. He can be effective, he just isn't the same type of player he was..it's the same for Carrick. He started out as a box to box player, and he's not that now is he?
I don't think Carrick was ever box to box to be fair.

His strength was always his brain and passing ability.

...and he's never in a million years on Bastian's level imo, conparing peak with peak.

Schweinsteiger has simply knackered himself and injuries yave probably contributed.

Don't get me wrong, I would still like him at the club and ideally I'd see him have a good run in the team next season and perform well. He can still definitely do a job.
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Old 23-03-2016, 15:22
Sebastian1992
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I don't think Carrick was ever box to box to be fair.

His strength was always his brain and passing ability.

...and he's never in a million years on Bastian's level imo, conparing peak with peak.

Schweinsteiger has simply knackered himself and injuries yave probably contributed.

Don't get me wrong, I would still like him at the club and ideally I'd see him have a good run in the team next seasonand perform well. He can still definitely do a job.
When he was at West Ham he was box to box, after injuries he adapted his game.
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Old 23-03-2016, 15:38
Banana Rama
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Van Gaal for me, hasn't given Schweinsteiger or Schneiderlin enough first team football.

Even though Schweinsteiger has had some injuries, it's hard to establish match sharpness if you're in and out of the team.
schweinsteiger hasn't been fit enough enough to cope with premier league football, that is why van gaal has been reluctant to use him, you can blame van gaal for a lot of things but not that. this is what guardiola said about schweinsteiger after we signed him:

“When he does not have injury problems, I am completely convinced he will do very well at Manchester United," the former Barcelona manager said.

"He is a top, top player. Unfortunately, during the last three years he was never in good condition.''

one thing you can blame van gaal for is signing schweinsteiger in the first place, the premier league is not a retirement home for past it injury prone players, its rough and fast and you need to be in shape to compete. i expressed these concerns before we signed him, i didn't get carried away by the big name like lots of others did and i am not at all surprised that he has struggled here.

some like to console themselves with the fact that the transfer fee was low, but they are overlooking the fact that he is on a very large contract worth over 200k a week which has another 2 years to run on it, he looks done now, what is he going to look like 2 years from now, another poor piece of transfer business by the club.

He has adapted his game though. He can be effective, he just isn't the same type of player he was..it's the same for Carrick. He started out as a box to box player, and he's not that now is he?

carrick has always been the type of player he is now, he has never been a box to box player.
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Old 23-03-2016, 15:46
Banana Rama
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When he was at West Ham he was box to box, after injuries he adapted his game.
what serious injuries did carrick have at west ham that caused him to have to change his game, i don't recall any injuries of that nature so i don't know what your on about to be honest.
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Old 23-03-2016, 15:46
Sebastian1992
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carrick has always been the type of player he is now, he has never been a box to box player.
I seem to remember different when he was playing for the West Ham youth teams but okay.
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Old 23-03-2016, 15:48
Sebastian1992
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what serious injuries did carrick have at west ham that caused him to have to change his game, i don't recall any injuries of that nature so i don't know what your on about to be honest...
1998-99. Prior to him breaking into the first team he suffered all sorts of niggles due to his growth.
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Old 23-03-2016, 15:59
Banana Rama
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1998-99. Prior to him breaking into the first team he suffered all sorts of niggles due to his growth.
that was before he had even kicked a ball in first team football, how is that even relevant, every player has to adapt as they grow taller and develop physically. the conversation is about veteran players having to adapt there game as they get past there prime and lose mobility, so why are you bringing up what a 14/15 year old carrick looked like before his growth spurt, strange.
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Old 23-03-2016, 16:17
Sebastian1992
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that was before he had even kicked a ball in first team football, how is that even relevant, every player has to adapt as they grow taller and develop physically. the conversation is about veteran players having to adapt there game as they get past there prime and lose mobility, so why are you bringing up what a 14/15 year old carrick looked like before his growth spurt, strange.
I'm actually talking about 18 year old Carrick, and even then, when he first came through for West Ham, he wasn't the player he became for Tottenham and Manchester United. Given I started the conversation, I don't need you telling me what it's about.
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Old 23-03-2016, 16:34
Sebastian1992
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From an interview with Carrick:
"When I first came into the game, midfield was more of a general position, the box-to-box midfielder who did a bit of everything. Now it’s been separated and you have your No 10s, your *tacklers, your more defensive players. But as a player I don’t think I’ve changed that much."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...the-tunes.html
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Old 23-03-2016, 16:53
Banana Rama
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he is describing the culture of midfielders in english football when he started out in the game compared to now, he is not saying that he himself was a box to box player, jesus christ, everyone knows that carrick has never been a box to box, i cant believe i actually have to defend this position.
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Old 23-03-2016, 17:00
Sebastian1992
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he is describing the culture of midfielders in english football when he started out in the game compared to now, he is not saying that he himself was a box to box player, jesus christ, everyone knows that carrick has never been a box to box, i cant believe i actually have to defend this position.
He was saying when he started out all midfielders were that way, including him.
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Old 23-03-2016, 17:10
Banana Rama
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He was saying when he started out all midfielders were that way, including him.
the interviewer asked him a question regarding the deep lying midfielder role, which is what he was responding to, here is the complete paragraph in its proper context, not just the bit you cherry picked:

Hodgson believes Carrick to be a “specialist” at a deep-lying role becoming more valued in this *country. “It’s certainly talked about a lot more,’’ Carrick said. “When I first came into the game, midfield was more of a general position, the box-to-box midfielder who did a bit of everything. Now it’s been separated and you have your No 10s, your *tacklers, your more defensive players. But as a player I don’t think I’ve changed that much.” That is why at 33, Carrick feels that he has so much to give, why that *position can prolong his career. “It is not exactly based on speed. It is a lot on your personality. As a person, as a player, that is how I am really: quite quiet and *understated. It suits me.”

he himself even says he doesn't think he has changed much in that time, so he thinks he is pretty much the same player now as he was back then, so his words support my view not yours.
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Old 23-03-2016, 17:14
Sebastian1992
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the interviewer asked him a question regarding the deep lying midfielder role, which is what he was responding to, here is the complete paragraph in its proper context, not just the bit you cherry picked:

Hodgson believes Carrick to be a “specialist” at a deep-lying role becoming more valued in this *country. “It’s certainly talked about a lot more,’’ Carrick said. “When I first came into the game, midfield was more of a general position, the box-to-box midfielder who did a bit of everything. Now it’s been separated and you have your No 10s, your *tacklers, your more defensive players. But as a player I don’t think I’ve changed that much.” That is why at 33, Carrick feels that he has so much to give, why that *position can prolong his career. “It is not exactly based on speed. It is a lot on your personality. As a person, as a player, that is how I am really: quite quiet and *understated. It suits me.”

he himself even says he doesn't think he has changed much in that time, so he thinks he is pretty much the same player now as he was back then, so his words support my view not yours.
He never used to play in this deep lying role for Tottenham for a start. He played alongside Pedro Mendes in a central midfield two. He got up and down the pitch. His words don't support what you say, he's disagreeing with Hodgson that he's a specialist deep-lying holding midfielder.
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Old 23-03-2016, 17:29
Banana Rama
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He never used to play in this deep lying role for Tottenham for a start. He played alongside Pedro Mendes in a central midfield two. He got up and down the pitch. His words don't support what you say, he's disagreeing with Hodgson that he's a specialist deep-lying holding midfielder.
he also speaks about playing at the base of a diamond in the article:

If Roy Hodgson persists with his successful diamond formation for the resumption of Euro 2016 qualifying against Lithuania at Wembley on Friday, Carrick should start at the base, spreading calm and passes, *dictating the tempo as well as *protecting the back-four. Jordan Henderson is also an option, perhaps tucked in.

“We’ve played a diamond at United enough times,’’ Carrick said after being coached by Hodgson and *Neville at St George’s Park yesterday. “It’s not to say that the diamond is the only position I can play. But it’s a formation that would probably suit me. I would be more than *comfortable there.”

He admires and analyses those who play there. “You can look at a few – Andrea Pirlo, Xabi Alonso and *Sergio Busquets. Busquets probably doesn’t get enough credit for what he brings to that [Barcelona] team. I thought [Marco] Verratti for PSG and [Thiago] Motta against Chelsea were terrific especially when they went down to 10 men [after Zlatan *Ibrahimovic’s dismissal]. I like *watching them and still trying to learn from them.”

it doesn't look like he is disagreeing with hodgson to me, he is clearly saying that the deep lying position is where he is most comfortable. he is comparing his role with that of pirlo, busquets, alonso, verratti. remember he also said that he doesn't think he has changed much as a player since he started out, that doesn't support your view that he used to be a box to box player.
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Old 23-03-2016, 17:34
Syntax Error
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Schweinsteiger is injured again, this time it's his knee. Probably not helped that he's looked overweight since returning from his last injury.
Looks like he has taken over from Louis Saha as The Incredible Injured Man for us.

He can now join Phil Jones who is our new Owen Hargreaves in the treatment room & keep our club doctors & physios in full time employment.
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Old 23-03-2016, 17:38
Sebastian1992
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he also speaks about playing at the base of a diamond in the article:

If Roy Hodgson persists with his successful diamond formation for the resumption of Euro 2016 qualifying against Lithuania at Wembley on Friday, Carrick should start at the base, spreading calm and passes, *dictating the tempo as well as *protecting the back-four. Jordan Henderson is also an option, perhaps tucked in.

“We’ve played a diamond at United enough times,’’ Carrick said after being coached by Hodgson and *Neville at St George’s Park yesterday. “It’s not to say that the diamond is the only position I can play. But it’s a formation that would probably suit me. I would be more than *comfortable there.”

He admires and analyses those who play there. “You can look at a few – Andrea Pirlo, Xabi Alonso and *Sergio Busquets. Busquets probably doesn’t get enough credit for what he brings to that [Barcelona] team. I thought [Marco] Verratti for PSG and [Thiago] Motta against Chelsea were terrific especially when they went down to 10 men [after Zlatan *Ibrahimovic’s dismissal]. I like *watching them and still trying to learn from them.”

it doesn't look like he is disagreeing with hodgson to me, he is clearly saying that the deep lying position is where he is most comfortable. he is comparing his role with that of pirlo, busquets, alonso, verratti. remember he also said that he doesn't think he has changed much as a player since he started out, that doesn't support your view that he used to be a box to box player.
That's based on him being a 33 year old though. He doesn't have the pace of energy to be the player he was at say, Tottenham, or even initially at Manchester United.

Don't get me wrong, this deep lying, at the base of a diamond style position suits him completely, and he always should have been a Pirlo type player and a fixture of the England team. It was his managers getting it wrong..

I'm a huge fan of Carrick, for what it's worth.

I may or may not have stalked/visited him during his time for the London based teams..
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Old 23-03-2016, 18:01
Banana Rama
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That's based on him being a 33 year old though. He doesn't have the pace of energy to be the player he was at say, Tottenham, or even initially at Manchester United.

Don't get me wrong, this deep lying, at the base of a diamond style position suits him completely, and he always should have been a Pirlo type player and a fixture of the England team. It was his managers getting it wrong..

I'm a huge fan of Carrick, for what it's worth.

I may or may not have stalked/visited him during his time for the London based teams..
carrick got about the pitch more in his younger days like all midfielders do, but he wasn't a box to box player, he has always been a passer rather then a runner. alonso was more mobile in his 20's, he wasn't a box to box player either.

a box to box midfielder makes runs into the box and scores goals, that is why he is called a box to box player, because he runs into the oppositions box, clue is in the name really. how many times do you recall carrick making a lung busting run into the box to get on the end of a cross and score a goal?

carrick has never been that type of player, he never got above 2 league goals in a season for west ham, never got above 2 at spurs, his best total at united was 4. compare his goalscoring record with that of vidal or lampard, proper box to box players.
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Old 23-03-2016, 22:00
Jim De Ville
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Without wanting a big row about nothing, Lampard wasn't really a 'box-to-box' player.

Maybe in his earlier days he tracked back a bit more, but I'd have him down as an attacking midfielder.
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Old 23-03-2016, 23:00
Jim De Ville
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Meanwhile, Mata and Roy Keane have both been 'bigging up' Ibrahimovic, over the last couple of days.

I would love to see that b*stard at Old Trafford, even if it's just for a year. Don't see it happening unless Rooney's on his way, mind.
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