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Man United Supporters Thread (Part 50)


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Old 24-03-2016, 00:15
Sebastian1992
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carrick got about the pitch more in his younger days like all midfielders do, but he wasn't a box to box player, he has always been a passer rather then a runner. alonso was more mobile in his 20's, he wasn't a box to box player either.

a box to box midfielder makes runs into the box and scores goals, that is why he is called a box to box player, because he runs into the oppositions box, clue is in the name really. how many times do you recall carrick making a lung busting run into the box to get on the end of a cross and score a goal?

carrick has never been that type of player, he never got above 2 league goals in a season for west ham, never got above 2 at spurs, his best total at united was 4. compare his goalscoring record with that of vidal or lampard, proper box to box players.
I'd say Gerrard was the stand out box to box midfielder, Lampard was more of an attacking midfielder.

Carrick did make those sort of runs, but he was never blessed with pace. He definitely got up the pitch plenty of times. I didn't say he was an effective box to box player, just that he was one.

Carrick was never the sort of player picking out passes over distance, he always played short accurate passes, and then moved up and down the pitch, generally making himself available (when in possession), out of posession he'd be tracking back, intercepting and putting himself about.

He was similar to Vidal in that respect.

Speaking of Vidal, one season aside, you wouldn't really call him a goal scoring midfielder either...
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Old 24-03-2016, 01:03
Banana Rama
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I'd say Gerrard was the stand out box to box midfielder, Lampard was more of an attacking midfielder.

Carrick did make those sort of runs, but he was never blessed with pace. He definitely got up the pitch plenty of times. I didn't say he was an effective box to box player, just that he was one.

Carrick was never the sort of player picking out passes over distance, he always played short accurate passes, and then moved up and down the pitch, generally making himself available (when in possession), out of posession he'd be tracking back, intercepting and putting himself about.

He was similar to Vidal in that respect.

Speaking of Vidal, one season aside, you wouldn't really call him a goal scoring midfielder either...
no, he didn't make those runs, you can keep saying he did as much as you like but your talking nonsense. another poster has brought to my attention that you have been known for trolling in this thread and i am beginning to think that is what you are doing here, comparing vidal with carrick is a joke. as for vidal's goalscoring record, in terms of league goals he scored ten in a season at leverkusen, 10 in a season at juve and 11 in a season at juve, and he scored plenty more in other competitions. so i don't know what your going on about saying he only had one good goalscoring season, more nonsense.
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Old 24-03-2016, 01:40
Sebastian1992
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no, he didn't make those runs, you can keep saying he did as much as you like but your talking nonsense. another poster has brought to my attention that you have been known for trolling in this thread and i am beginning to think that is what you are doing here, comparing vidal with carrick is a joke. as for vidal's goalscoring record, in terms of league goals he scored ten in a season at leverkusen, 10 in a season at juve and 11 in a season at juve, and he scored plenty more in other competitions. so i don't know what your going on about saying he only had one good goalscoring season, more nonsense.
Of course not. I must have imagined this against Arsenal...

Oh, and who is this popping up for West ham....

I'm not trolling, and look at Vidal's overall record. 54 goals in 302 senior team appearances.

The good goalscoring season I refer to, is the one where he scored 15 goals in all competitions for Juventus...while scoring 10 or 11 goals is reasonably good for a midfielder, I wouldn't say it's especially remarkable.


Yes, I've only shown you two instances, but there is hardly a plethora of footage out there. Most of the footage is of Carrick at United.

Box to box doesn't necessarily imply a goalscorer for the record. Yaya Toure was seen as a box to box midfielder, and his goal scoring record is hardly anything to write home about either..
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Old 24-03-2016, 06:17
zieler
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Meanwhile, Mata and Roy Keane have both been 'bigging up' Ibrahimovic, over the last couple of days.

I would love to see that b*stard at Old Trafford, even if it's just for a year. Don't see it happening unless Rooney's on his way, mind.
Can't say I've ever liked him but reckon he'd have a massive impact for us if we got him. Agree that it would only happen if Rooney left.

There were a few reports in Spain yesterday that we could go in for James Rodriguez who Madrid are trying to shift this summer. He'd make a lot of sense given we need a new right winger but Real are supposedly asking for all the money they paid for him two years ago so he'd cost more that Di Maria did. Not sure he's really worth that much.
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:05
Jim De Ville
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There were a few reports in Spain yesterday that we could go in for James Rodriguez who Madrid are trying to shift this summer. He'd make a lot of sense given we need a new right winger but Real are supposedly asking for all the money they paid for him two years ago so he'd cost more that Di Maria did. Not sure he's really worth that much.
I'll be honest, I've not watched that much of him, but I'd tend to agree with you, from what I have seen.

£70m? Must be better options out there.
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:19
Nova21
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I'll be honest, I've not watched that much of him, but I'd tend to agree with you, from what I have seen.

£70m? Must be better options out there.
I agree. He was hyped up in the run up to the world cup and scored a spectacular goal but he hasn't really had an impact in Madrid. 70m seems massively over the odds
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:41
Nova21
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I would like to make a peace offering. I'm not sure why I was suspended just now or who reported me and my adversary but I am back now and hope to move forward in a positive way!
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:55
Sebastian1992
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Can't say I've ever liked him but reckon he'd have a massive impact for us if we got him. Agree that it would only happen if Rooney left.

There were a few reports in Spain yesterday that we could go in for James Rodriguez who Madrid are trying to shift this summer. He'd make a lot of sense given we need a new right winger but Real are supposedly asking for all the money they paid for him two years ago so he'd cost more that Di Maria did. Not sure he's really worth that much.
If you're going for Real Madrid players, I'd say Kroos would be the better option.

As for right wingers you're linked with Feghouli at Valencia...apparently, Liverpool are your competition for his signing. If I was him, I'd sign for Liverpool. Not because I'm biased, of course.
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:59
Nova21
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If any German midfielder from the Bundesliga, i'd try and get Reus.
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Old 24-03-2016, 10:59
zieler
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I'll be honest, I've not watched that much of him, but I'd tend to agree with you, from what I have seen.

£70m? Must be better options out there.
You'd hope so but there aren't that many options, we'll probably have to spend big on a younger player and hope that they are a Martial level talent - Leroy Sane and Ousmane Dembele are the ones I've seen suggested and I've only ever seen the former a couple of times, never seen the latter.

If you're going for Real Madrid players, I'd say Kroos would be the better option.

As for right wingers you're linked with Feghouli at Valencia...apparently, Liverpool are your competition for his signing. If I was him, I'd sign for Liverpool. Not because I'm biased, of course.
Not sure Kroos would be available. He'd be a good signing though.

Not sure Feghouli is good enough, so think you can have him.
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Old 24-03-2016, 11:03
Jamesp84
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With Rodriguez I'm getting the words 'Di Maria'.

Not for me thanks.
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Old 24-03-2016, 11:06
Nova21
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With Rodriguez I'm getting the words 'Di Maria'.

Not for me thanks.
With even less of a track record
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Old 24-03-2016, 11:48
Jim De Ville
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You'd hope so but there aren't that many options, we'll probably have to spend big on a younger player and hope that they are a Martial level talent - Leroy Sane and Ousmane Dembele are the ones I've seen suggested and I've only ever seen the former a couple of times, never seen the latter.
I've not seen him play either, but he's apparently 'expressed his desire' to join United.

Or, the press picked up on some innocuous quote from him that he tends to play as us, on FIFA.

NAILED ON.
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Old 24-03-2016, 12:07
Grim Fandango
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I've liked the look of Rabiot the few times I've seen him play. Also heard he's been linked with a move away from PSG - linked with Arsenal. Wouldn't mind us bringing in someone like him to add some energy in the middle of the park.
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Old 24-03-2016, 12:22
f_196
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I've always liked the look of James Rodriguez.

However, if the flat faced one is still in change next year, then it's a no go. He'll ruin what ever talent he's got left.
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Old 24-03-2016, 12:23
zieler
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I've not seen him play either, but he's apparently 'expressed his desire' to join United.

Or, the press picked up on some innocuous quote from him that he tends to play as us, on FIFA.

NAILED ON.
Yeah, a very unsubtle hint from him there.

He's apparently been joined by Varane, who has said that he'd like a bit more game time at Madrid and that he is happy there... Sorry, I mean we've been given a boost as he reveals he is 'unhappy' at Madrid.
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Old 24-03-2016, 12:44
DoctorMuff
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I almost don't care who we bring in as long as Fellaini is shipped out.
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Old 24-03-2016, 13:10
Banana Rama
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Of course not. I must have imagined this against Arsenal...

Oh, and who is this popping up for West ham....

I'm not trolling, and look at Vidal's overall record. 54 goals in 302 senior team appearances.

The good goalscoring season I refer to, is the one where he scored 15 goals in all competitions for Juventus...while scoring 10 or 11 goals is reasonably good for a midfielder, I wouldn't say it's especially remarkable.


Yes, I've only shown you two instances, but there is hardly a plethora of footage out there. Most of the footage is of Carrick at United.

Box to box doesn't necessarily imply a goalscorer for the record. Yaya Toure was seen as a box to box midfielder, and his goal scoring record is hardly anything to write home about either..
the goalscoring numbers i posted for vidal were league goals only, i stated that in the post, can't you read? if you want to talk about overall then he scored 13 in a season at leverkusen, 15 in a season at juve and 18 in a season at juve, thats 3 excellent goalscoring seasons not one, so your still wrong. as i am sure you are aware posting two isolated incidents when carrick got forward is pointless, i can post some rare instances of makelele or busquets getting forward, it doesn't prove that they were box to box players.
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Old 24-03-2016, 13:43
Sebastian1992
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the goalscoring numbers i posted for vidal were league goals only, i stated that in the post, can't you read? if you want to talk about overall then he scored 13 in a season at leverkusen, 15 in a season at juve and 18 in a season at juve, thats 3 excellent goalscoring seasons not one, so your still wrong. as i am sure you are aware posting two isolated incidents when carrick got forward is pointless, i can post some rare instances of makelele or busquets getting forward, it doesn't prove that they were box to box players.
Makele and Busquets are completely different players.

Those aren't excellent goal scoring seasons.

In his time at both West Ham and Tottenham Carrick played in a way that was far more similar to Vidal/ Yaya Toure than Alonso/ Busquets/Makelele. It's only when he adjusted his game slightly that he started getting rated at the level he actually was. He was underrated for years.

You accuse me of being unable to read, yet miss the part where I clearly stated there isn't much footage of Carrick outside of his time at United..

What do you want me to do, invent a time machine, jump back film the footage and bring it to you?

I showed you two clear instances of the sort of midfielder he used to be.
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Old 24-03-2016, 15:01
Banana Rama
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Makele and Busquets are completely different players.
they both are/were specialist holding midfield players, they both specialise in the defensive midfield position and rarely get forward which is why i mentioned them, so i don't know what point your trying to make there, totally irrelevant comment. my point was that i can show you clips where those two got forward, but that doesn't mean they were box to box players just because they got forward on rare occasions. what they do the vast majority of the time defines the type of player that they are, not what they do once in a blue moon.

regarding vidal, those are excellent goalscoring numbers for a central midfield player, he's a central midfielder not a striker, how many goals do you expect him to score, 30 a season?
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Old 24-03-2016, 15:24
Sebastian1992
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they both are/were specialist holding midfield players, they both specialise in the defensive midfield position and rarely get forward which is why i mentioned them, so i don't know what point your trying to make there, totally irrelevant comment. my point was that i can show you clips where those two got forward, but that doesn't mean they were box to box players just because they got forward on rare occasions. what they do the vast majority of the time defines the type of player that they are, not what they do once in a blue moon.

regarding vidal, those are excellent goalscoring numbers for a central midfield player, he's a central midfielder not a striker, how many goals do you expect him to score, 30 a season?
I meant Makele and Busquets are completely different to Carrick...

You claimed Lampard was a box to box midfielder, so his scoring record would be the one to live up to surely?
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Old 24-03-2016, 15:38
Banana Rama
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I meant Makele and Busquets are completely different to Carrick...

You claimed Lampard was a box to box midfielder, so his scoring record would be the one to live up to surely?
how many central midfielders can you think of that matched lampard's numbers, he was a freak player, no point expecting others to match those numbers. i am not going to get into the debate about wether lampard was a box to box or not, that is opening up another can of worms and this debate has gone on long enough i think...
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Old 25-03-2016, 00:25
Makosi's pants
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Agree about Schneiderlin, but not Schweinsteiger.

He's been a pretty big disappointment, for me. There's a reason that Bayern Munich let him go for such a low fee.
Thank you Jim. I think we were all hoping with Bastian that he would recover former glory but Bayern knew he was done. And knowledge unfortunately often trumps hope in football.

Schweinsteiger's legs have gone.

He was always the box to box engine of a midfield. The guy to break stuff up and be a leader on the pitch.

Unfortunately, we got him five years too late.

Massive disappointment for me because everytime people used to say "we still haven't replaced Keane", I would always say Schweinsteiger would be my dream signing.
I agree, but I could have sworn when I said similar a couple of pages ago you were one of those who argued against it???? Sorry, if I've got it wrong. Anyway, you're spot on. We need to be buying players at their peak or nearing it, not those the wrong side of thirty. Especially in the middle.

how many central midfielders can you think of that matched lampard's numbers, he was a freak player, no point expecting others to match those numbers. i am not going to get into the debate about wether lampard was a box to box or not, that is opening up another can of worms and this debate has gone on long enough i think...
I wonder how it got so far and I can only imagine other regular contributors to this this thread were shaking with uncontrollable laughter so much that they didn't chip in on your side. We are lucky at United to have had two of the best box-to box middy's ever - Robbo and Keane - plus other classy individuals like Ince and Hargreaves (when fit) and even dear old Darren Fletcher. They all had an eye for a pass, posessed individual attacking threat, could all win a high percentage of fifty-fifty tackles and had the stamina to shuttle up and down the pitch many times a match.

Meanwhile Carrick, as much as I love him, simply has an eye for a pass. It's a sniper's eye mind you - better than any of those previously mentioned - and he does have hugely underrated qualities to intercept an opponents pass and read the game - but he is not box to box, no matter how many ancient video clips are dug up of him storming past players when in the Wallsend boys under 15's team.

Simply put, your "boxy" player is as good up front as he is at the back and will run between the two points all day. So that rules at Lampard as well. He was an attacking middy IMO.
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Old 25-03-2016, 09:17
Eddie hunter
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Can't say I've ever liked him but reckon he'd have a massive impact for us if we got him. Agree that it would only happen if Rooney left.
He has a genuinely incredible goalscoring record wherever he has played. He's an incredible player.

But he turns 35 this year.

Whilst I dont have an ambition for thinking long term with a managerial appointment for reasons Ive discussed at length Im not sure I see the merit in doing similar with players.

If he comes in and does well we are getting a year out of him and then have the problem of replacing him. Alternatively he comes in and at 35 he declines rapidly and we have to replace him.

Great as he is I have a huge sense of "why bother?". That said if he signed it would be hugely entertaining.
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Old 25-03-2016, 10:19
Conor McHale
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I know a lot of people think otherwise, but I have a hunch that if we sign Ibrahimovic, he would be completely underwhelming for us. Maybe I'm being overly cautious because of how the deals with Falcao and Schweinsteiger have worked out in the last couple of years.

If we go for a striker in the summer, I'd hope we'd go for someone like Lukaku or Kane - though the latter would probably command a huge fee and may not want to leave Spurs, understandably. The dream signing would be Dybala but I don't think Juventus would let him go, or even if he'd want to play for us.
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