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Man United Supporters Thread (Part 50)


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Old 24-04-2016, 18:47
NorthernNinny
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Oh dear.

Finishing fourth and getting kicked out of a competition that we hadn't even fully qualified for yet would be a pain in the arse you are correct.........but city will struggle to win the champions league and finish outside the top 4. They will probably finish 3rd.
Liverpool have the better chance of winning the europa league, so at the minute if we finished 4th , Liverpool and city won both the champions league and Europa league we would qualify anyway.

I never quite understand why anyone would want us to finish 5th rather than 4th.
Maybe it's the thought that top 4 could mean another year of Van Gaal?
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Old 24-04-2016, 19:27
owen10
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Do you think if Jose Mourinho takes over he will keep playing Marcus Rashford and some of the youngsters or will he just play the players that he will buy in the summer, as Jose Mourinho has a reputation of not playing talented youngsters, and he usually plays players who are experienced
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Old 24-04-2016, 19:36
big brother 9
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So Palace it is in the final, a repeat of 1990, be nice to get a similar result from the replay!
Did you remember that game yourself? Or have you been watching sky sports news too?
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Old 24-04-2016, 20:32
batdude_uk1
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Did you remember that game yourself? Or have you been watching sky sports news too?
Well I was only six when it happened, so I don't have too many vivid memories of it, but I have seen enough of both games on MUTV over the years, as they do tend to show them in the classic games slots a fair bit of time.

I am not too sure I follow you in terms of Sky Sports News however?
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Old 24-04-2016, 20:33
Flukie
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Maybe it's the thought that top 4 could mean another year of Van Gaal?
When really, of course, United relying on others and possibly getting to 4th by the skin of their teeth at the last minute .... should guarantee a sacking, not another year!

With this squad, the top 4 should be a doddle, specially this season, the way things have gone in the PL. And as many have pointed out, next season, one assumes Chelsea will be stronger, as will Liverpool, City will have Pep, then there's Spurs, Arsenal, etc, so the top 4 will be a lot tougher to get than it was this season. If we have a repeat next season of the way Van Gaal has sent the team out to play this season ... I dread to think where United might end up!
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Old 24-04-2016, 20:33
batdude_uk1
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Do you think if Jose Mourinho takes over he will keep playing Marcus Rashford and some of the youngsters or will he just play the players that he will buy in the summer, as Jose Mourinho has a reputation of not playing talented youngsters, and he usually plays players who are experienced
That is one of my major worries/issues over him possibly coming here, if he does go against our heritage and traditions, then that would be such a huge shame.
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Old 24-04-2016, 20:47
mikeyddd
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I don't know if anyone has raised this before, but has anyone looked at the videos on Joe. Co.uk. One about LVG singing I will survive. Also, Rooney and smalling versus Costa in an Inbetweeners spoof. They are hilarious.
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Old 24-04-2016, 20:59
Nova21
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That is one of my major worries/issues over him possibly coming here, if he does go against our heritage and traditions, then that would be such a huge shame.
He's not going to discard Rashford if he looks as good in terms of both attitude and performance in pre season training as he has done since getting into the team.
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:00
big brother 9
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Well I was only six when it happened, so I don't have too many vivid memories of it, but I have seen enough of both games on MUTV over the years, as they do tend to show them in the classic games slots a fair bit of time.

I am not too sure I follow you in terms of Sky Sports News however?
I suppose what I was trying to say is the cup final you were talking about has been mentioned at least 5 times since palace were confirmed finalists on sky sports news......

I wasn't at all saying that you had gotten your information from there and passing it off as your own knowledge.
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:01
batdude_uk1
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He's not going to discard Rashford if he looks as good in terms of both attitude and performance in pre season training as he has done since getting into the team.
And what about Mensah, Varela, Love, and the rest of the young players that are on the cusp of the first team?

Will he aid or hinder their development?
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:06
batdude_uk1
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I suppose what I was trying to say is the cup final you were talking about has been mentioned at least 5 times since palace were confirmed finalists on sky sports news......

I wasn't at all saying that you had gotten your information from there and passing it off as your own knowledge.
Okay....I don't remember the match, but I have seen the highlights as I say enough times on MUTV, to know about it.

I am glad that you are not saying that I pass other things off as my own, as I am not in the habit of doing so.
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:09
aurichie
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What mourinho cares most about is hardworking players who will die for the cause. The only young ones who have anything to fear are those who don't cover enough ground on the pitch.

Also this is the dream job for Mourinho and I am certain he's going to be willing to adapt to respect the traditions.
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:10
big brother 9
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Okay....I don't remember the match, but I have seen the highlights as I say enough times on MUTV, to know about it.

I am glad that you are not saying that I pass other things off as my own, as I am not in the habit of doing so.
Absolutey not my friend.

Back on this week's football
Let's hope we get a win against Leicester and avoid a repeat of the 1985 game where Leicester beat us 3-0 with 1 goal from Gary mcallister and 2 by Alan Smith .
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:12
batdude_uk1
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What mourinho cares most about is hardworking players who will die for the cause. The only young ones who have anything to fear are those who don't cover enough ground on the pitch.

Also this is the dream job for Mourinho and I am certain he's going to be willing to adapt to respect the traditions.
I hope that you are right about him respecting our traditions, it is just that there is not much in his career to back that up so far.
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:12
Nova21
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And what about Mensah, Varela, Love, and the rest of the young players that are on the cusp of the first team?

Will he aid or hinder their development?
I don't know about those ones. They haven't stood out as much as Rashford to me in terms of consistent performance and attitude. As I've said before, he looks the real deal in terms of a goalscorer and it's a position which man united desperately need more strength. He won't just be discarded as he's a kid

.im quite impressed with Mensah though on the very limited occasions that I've seen him.
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:15
Conor McHale
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And what about Mensah, Varela, Love, and the rest of the young players that are on the cusp of the first team?

Will he aid or hinder their development?
Varela and Love are nothing special. In fact, the latter looked completely out of his depth in the first team and the last time Varela started he proceeded to make Coutinho look like Messi.

I'm all in favour of seeing the youth come through - Rashford, Fosu-Mensah and Borthwick-Jackson have all impressed and certainly deserve places in the squad. However, a managerial appointment should never be contingent on giving chances to players like Varela or Love, who are ordinary at best.
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:23
NorthernNinny
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When really, of course, United relying on others and possibly getting to 4th by the skin of their teeth at the last minute .... should guarantee a sacking, not another year!

With this squad, the top 4 should be a doddle, specially this season, the way things have gone in the PL. And as many have pointed out, next season, one assumes Chelsea will be stronger, as will Liverpool, City will have Pep, then there's Spurs, Arsenal, etc, so the top 4 will be a lot tougher to get than it was this season. If we have a repeat next season of the way Van Gaal has sent the team out to play this season ... I dread to think where United might end up!
The thing is, if we keep him and the season goes pear shaped who do we replace him with ? Jose will be long gone and it's difficult to appoint a manager mid season(Liverpool aside).

Do we then have to see the season out because the only alternative is GIggs? He's leaving in a year anyway. I think the only one's who want him to see out his contract are the GIggs for manager fans tbh.
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Old 24-04-2016, 21:26
batdude_uk1
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Varela and Love are nothing special. In fact, the latter looked completely out of his depth in the first team and the last time Varela started he proceeded to make Coutinho look like Messi.

I'm all in favour of seeing the youth come through - Rashford, Fosu-Mensah and Borthwick-Jackson have all impressed and certainly deserve places in the squad. However, a managerial appointment should never be contingent on giving chances to players like Varela or Love, who are ordinary at best.
It should be about aiding the development of the better ones, and at the moment players such as Rashford, Mensah Jackson, and Varela do come into that category.

The players of course have to take their chances and do well when given them (unlike Powell or Keane say), but we do have players that if given their fair share of games could develop into players that could help us to achieve things once again.

It is a very fine balancing act, but it is one that I would rather our manager perceives with, rather than just buying in a load of players for the sake of things.
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Old 24-04-2016, 22:00
Conor McHale
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The quality of the first team shouldn't be compromised in the hope that these players will go on to become world beaters though. Use them as rotational options, by all means, but improvement on the spine of the team (and one or two other positions) is still necessary.

As good as Rashford and Fosu-Mensah look right now, I don't think either of them are ready to become regular starters just yet.
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Old 24-04-2016, 22:23
Jim De Ville
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The quality of the first team shouldn't be compromised in the hope that these players will go on to become world beaters though. Use them as rotational options, by all means, but improvement on the spine of the team (and one or two other positions) is still necessary.

As good as Rashford and Fosu-Mensah look right now, I don't think either of them are ready to become regular starters just yet.
This.

Same old crap from the same old posters, on this thread.

If Mourinho were to come in and win us the league, how many fans would be moaning about the lack of game time for Love?

Ridiculous.
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Old 24-04-2016, 22:53
batdude_uk1
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This.

Same old crap from the same old posters, on this thread.

If Mourinho were to come in and win us the league, how many fans would be moaning about the lack of game time for Love?

Ridiculous.
It is not about one player, it is about the ideal, the system itself.

José does not have a good record when it comes to developing youth, he comes in does well at a club for a short while, then leaves, leaving behind a bit of a mess.

I want the club to be in a good state after he leaves, the club is more than just the first team, more than just what happens in the here and now, it is about the future.

Thinking short-term is what has got us into this mess we find ourselves, there needs to be a modicum of longer term targets.
One of those targets should be to aid the development of our most promising young players.

José at Chelsea had a group that were the best in Europe, yet did he at all try to bed them into their first team? No he didn't, even when the current players were under-performing, he still played them, rather than giving a good, young, and hungry player a chance.

Yes of course I want us to be successful, who doesn't, but it is about trying at the very least to look at a bigger picture.

If José comes in, and changes his spots, then I will be very impressed, and hugely relived, but there is not much to go on in terms of his C.V. in this department.
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Old 25-04-2016, 00:19
Jim De Ville
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It is not about one player, it is about the ideal, the system itself.

José does not have a good record when it comes to developing youth, he comes in does well at a club for a short while, then leaves, leaving behind a bit of a mess.

I want the club to be in a good state after he leaves, the club is more than just the first team, more than just what happens in the here and now, it is about the future.

Thinking short-term is what has got us into this mess we find ourselves, there needs to be a modicum of longer term targets.
One of those targets should be to aid the development of our most promising young players.

José at Chelsea had a group that were the best in Europe, yet did he at all try to bed them into their first team? No he didn't, even when the current players were under-performing, he still played them, rather than giving a good, young, and hungry player a chance.

Yes of course I want us to be successful, who doesn't, but it is about trying at the very least to look at a bigger picture.

If José comes in, and changes his spots, then I will be very impressed, and hugely relived, but there is not much to go on in terms of his C.V. in this department.
The same old waffle. Tedious in the extreme.

Any manager will play what he considers to be his best available team, in order to win matches. That's his job.

If that includes someone who's been doing great for the reserves/in training, then so be it.

We are Manchester United. The brief for any manager is to win things, or at least put up a decent challenge. Bringing through youth players isn't principally his job. That's down to the staff briefed to work with/scout/sign up the youth players. If they've done their job, then it's natural that they'll make their way into the first team.

I know this, most people know this, Mourinho knows this. You don't know this, for whatever reason.
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Old 25-04-2016, 00:34
batdude_uk1
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The same old waffle. Tedious in the extreme.

Any manager will play what he considers to be his best available team, in order to win matches. That's his job.

If that includes someone who's been doing great for the reserves/in training, then so be it.

We are Manchester United. The brief for any manager is to win things, or at least put up a decent challenge. Bringing through youth players isn't principally his job. That's down to the staff briefed to work with/scout/sign up the youth players. If they've done their job, then it's natural that they'll make their way into the first team.

I know this, most people know this, Mourinho knows this. You don't know this, for whatever reason.
Explain how or why none of the best youth side in Europe got their chance in Chelsea's drastically underperforming side, if as you say that "....it's natural that they'll make their way into the first team."?

Surely at least one or two of them were worth a place or giving a chance to, over a fair few of the underperforming players that he had at first team level?

It is very easy to just get caught up in short term thinking, about the here and now, about winning titles in the next season, or the one after that, but we need to be thinking as a club more long-term than that.
Having a manager that will no matter what, play players without giving a thought to the next generation, is not at all ideal.

As I say, if José comes in, and he has changed his tune, then I for one will be thrilled about that, but currently there is not much evidence to prove that he will.

A manager of ours has a responsibility to the club as a whole, not just the first team.
Part of his responsibility is to try and help develop the more talented youth players at our disposal, and that means working with them in training, and if they are good enough, playing them in matches, that is what we have been known for, and I do hope that continues.

It would be terribly sad indeed, if we were to just buy in a whole new team, and players that we don't need to do (see José doing so with Falcao at Chelsea for example, they didn't need him, yet they brought him in anyway).
A youth player could have easily filled that role at the club at that time (and being the best in Europe, you would think that was a distinct possibility).

If you do not agree with this, then fine, but what is with the needless and senseless jabs or barbs? Just say that you disagree and leave it there.
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Old 25-04-2016, 00:42
NorthernNinny
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It is not about one player, it is about the ideal, the system itself.

José does not have a good record when it comes to developing youth, he comes in does well at a club for a short while, then leaves, leaving behind a bit of a mess.

I want the club to be in a good state after he leaves, the club is more than just the first team, more than just what happens in the here and now, it is about the future.

Thinking short-term is what has got us into this mess we find ourselves, there needs to be a modicum of longer term targets.
One of those targets should be to aid the development of our most promising young players.

José at Chelsea had a group that were the best in Europe, yet did he at all try to bed them into their first team? No he didn't, even when the current players were under-performing, he still played them, rather than giving a good, young, and hungry player a chance.

Yes of course I want us to be successful, who doesn't, but it is about trying at the very least to look at a bigger picture.

If José comes in, and changes his spots, then I will be very impressed, and hugely relived, but there is not much to go on in terms of his C.V. in this department.
What got us into this mess is making the wrong managerial appointments in the first place.

Moyes, in choosing a manager who never had the CV for the job in the first place.
Van Gaal, had the pedigree but unfortunately it didn't work out.

We shouldn't be just blindly choosing youth players because of some mythical Utd way. I think there will be less pressure on Jose than he had at his previous clubs to tick certain boxes, as long as we are showing progress I'm sure he will consider the younger players coming through the academy.

Let's face it, Van Gaal got lucky with having so many injuries whIch forced his hand into giving debuts to young players.
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Old 25-04-2016, 01:15
TheMunch
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Explain how or why none of the best youth side in Europe got their chance in Chelsea's drastically underperforming side, if as you say that "....it's natural that they'll make their way into the first team."?

Surely at least one or two of them were worth a place or giving a chance to, over a fair few of the underperforming players that he had at first team level?
Because, and this has been said several times to you already, he wasn't allowed to. He just won the league and was sacked a few months later. Where was the time to play kids? He had to get instant results, and constantly, there was no time to play around with kids (I know, that sounds bad!) because he had to just win. Those underperforming players won him the league, he trusted them from the previous season, they were proven, those kids weren't proven, he didn't know if they would have come in and been the answer to all his problems and he wasn't in a position to experiment and hope for the best because, again, he needed instant results, and constantly. It was the same at Real Madrid.

Him getting Falcao didn't work out but he probably thought Falcao would get him goals and help Costa. It wasn't that long ago Falcao was one of the best strikers in the world, with the likes of Hazard and Fabregas around him playing at the level they were expected he could've helped Chelsea compete in Europe and the league.

The fact that Mourinho would be considered thinking short-term doesn't mean anything either, Moyes was a long-term appointment, how did that turn out? If you sign Mourinho and he wins you a title in his first season with Higuain rather than Rashford are you going to be crying about him not playing Rashford every week or are you going to be celebrating winning the league?
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