Oh, for sure, but I was just curious. Many trains had film fitted which played around with signals, and Virgin even fitted boosters on some trains, which in itself could cause issues, to compensate.

I am pretty certain the trains used by Hull Trains and Grand Central don't have either.

I had reason to use a CrossCountry voyager a few days ago.

I was surprised that I was able to actually hold a 4G signal for most of my journey, where normally you'd struggle to stay on 2G. Coverage on a proper train like an HST, on the same line, has never been an issue.

I know that Voyagers are basically faraday cages so it's odd that it now seems to work

Signal on Virgin East Coast from Doncaster to London Kings Cross I have found is very good, with almost continuous 4G from EE almost the entire journey.

South West trains on the other hand - Alton to Waterloo line, terrible for about 85% of the journey on any network. Guildford to Waterloo, terrible for about 60% of the journey on any network.

Does this vary by handset? iPhone been picking up VoLTE on 800 here since it's launch.

The south west (especially through the forests) and the Brighton main line are all very testing conditions.

The ECML seems very decent and certainly better than the WCML, although the trains Virgin use may play a part in that.

Yes, that is true - Three are very behind on the 4G rollout, with O2/Vodafone having more 4G coverage.
Though having said that, when there's no Three 4G, there is 3G, which will still work on the vast majority of sites.
On O2/Vodafone, however, where there's no 4G, there likely won't be any 3G either (due to L08/U09), with the fallback being legacy U09/21 or G09.


Thought so, certainly with regards to EE and Three because Three don't have 2G and EE is set up to only use 2G if there isn't anything else (if only my S4 also did this!). Whereas Vod/O2 have the fallback thresholds higher, if I am right (I'm sure I heard it on here).

You are right though. If it was driving in a car, then the weak signal amounts will be OK as there's only a few cars in a given area on most roads. Whereas a train being jam packed with people all trying to connect to -111dBm 3G is not ideal at all...

Didn't know about the Ofcom definitions - though they do seem reasonable (so your phone won't be hunting for a tiny bit of signal...) Having said that, I did manage to make/hold a call on 3G that was down to about -107/-109dBm. And I know that I could use 4G in the -120's, as that was what I ended up using at Thorpe Camp, Tattershall (Lincs) when I was last there (3G was worse, cutting out or just about clinging to -111dBm...)

Most older trains, and some modern trains, are OK with regards to signals. Thameslink trains between Bedford and down south (St Pancras etc) are fine. Intercity 125 trains are fine, as I always tried to get those when using East Midlands Trains. Anything based on Class 22x (Virgin Class 220/221/East Mids Class 222 etc) are horrendous because of the metal film, and your only hope is to pay for the wifi (unless you are lucky enough to be within range of First Class wifi).


The Class 22x trains are a good example of the film making you see EDGE or GPRS!

For example, at Kettering Station (Northamptonshire), inside an Intercity 125 train, you can get 2-3 bars of 3G, and likely 4G too. Outside the train, on the platform, 4 bars 3G.
In a Class 222 train you might be lucky enough to get 0 bars 3G at the station; failing that it's nasty 2G. And that's quite close to a 3G/4G mast!

Voyagers are Class 22x trains which are absolutely terrible in regards to any type of signal. I know this because East Midlands Trains use Class 222's, which are part of the Voyager family - and they have film windows that block out anything and everything.
Tried FM Radio - no chance.
Tried 3G - hopeless in many places unless you are on Voda/O2, in which case the 900MHz 3G might just about make it. 2100MHz is blocked out in several areas.
Tried 4G. 1800MHz on lowish power is no good with the windows. 800MHz may be better but I can't comment on that.

HST's are much better as they have proper windows that don't block out signals.

New EE SIM only plans seem to have launched.

I put the details up on my site a while back. New SIM only plan and data only plans, home broadband etc.

Yep they're identical to the information you put up some weeks ago !

Surprised that the 20GB SIM (which is quite a lot of data) is at a capped speed plan, especially when EE are charging £35 per month for it!

If I was paying £35 I'd want fastest speeds!

Looks like, at the end of the 12 months, I'll be staying on my 16GB plan and having it as a rolling contract SIM as I'm getting whatever speeds my handset supports - which is currently up to 100Mbps, but will soon be whatever the LG G4 supports (I think it does carrier aggregation so an expecting at least 150Mbps?)

Also, couldn't help but notice the low data plans (up to 1GB) giving 4G plans at 3G speeds.... (Most 3G masts can do up to 20Mbps, including my local mast!)

The new sim only plan prices are horrific.

They'll be on offer again soon I'm sure.

Vodafone's 20GB plan is essentially permanently reduced now, for example.

Makes the old SIM that I had with Virgin (£19 for unlimited minutes, texts and 3.5GB data on 3G) seem cheap.... Likewise,it makes the Three UK SIMs look cheap!

Certainly plenty of room for special offers with the new price plans....

For all the times it's been mentioned I'm surprised that you don't know about all the bad points of 3G which stretch far beyond headline download speed...

Not to mention that while it's a fairly ordinary occurrence to see average speeds of 20Mbs on 4G it's becoming quite unusual to see average 3G speeds running anywhere near 20Mbps unless you are the only user sitting 50m from a mast at 2am.

3G speeds can be great.... But 0.5 to 4 Mbps is common.

Weird as you would think it would be faster now more people are on 4G but it's actually slower. 3G getting less of a percentage of the backhaul perhaps.

Believe me, I certainly know all of the bad points in regards to 3G, and why the networks want it gone before 2G!

Yep, you can say that - even on a weak signal on 4G, you can still get 10-20Mbps - whereas on 3G you have to be in a strong signal area to get 20Mbps. Nevertheless, I have got 20Mbps off various 3G masts, and not 50m away from it at 2am (daytime speeds of 20Mbps have been known as well). Though having taken everything into consideration, 20Mbps cap on 4G packages is quite low... I'd expect more than 20Mbps off 4G in a strong signal area (assuming that the mast allows it).
In my opinion it should have been:
Low tier: up to 50Mbps (or single speed 4G as was previously)
Medium tier: up to 100Mbps (or double speed 4G)
High tier: unlimited speed (certainly 150/200Mbps)

And why they had to throw in BT Sport... I do not often watch sports packages so I'd rather have something more constructive for me, like Spotify or another music streaming service. Or faster speeds!

To be honest, capping speeds at 20 Mbps isn't going to make any noticeable difference to the speed of any normal activity that people do on a mobile phone. At high download speeds, the download speed is no longer the rate-limiting step controlling the responsiveness of steaming or browsing.

EE haven't upgraded masts and launched carrier aggregation because people need 200 Mbps on a phone, they've done it to prevent network congestion in busy areas.

Regardless of whether people are capped at 20 or 200, it will only be possible to tell the difference by doing speed tests.

Seems like a cynical way of making people think they need to pay more to get a good speed.

EE have applied for PP to install back up generators and batteries at a number of sites near me so maybe a condition of the ESN,

Yes, they will be L800 sites for ESN with no overlapping coverage from neighbouring cells therefore the requirement for higher levels of resilience. May also have satellite backhaul.

Try continuing on to Portsmouth on the direct line. There's basically nothing at all between Haslemere and Havant. At least once you get to Guildford it sort of works. Train WiFi is just as bad.

Signal on the line between Portsmouth and Southampton is also pretty shoddy on EE. Most of the time you're stuck on very weak 3G that doesn't work.

For those interested in the EE ESN build out in rural areas, this is a typical example of a new site:

http://wam.highland.gov.uk/wam/appli...=OEXIO5IHL3U00

You can see from the application just how many sites EE are having to build within in a small geographical area to get acceptable coverage within this challenging terrain.

Generally rural sites are 15 or 20 metre lattice towers with four panel antennas. Two antennas supporting L800 and the other two L1800 (and possibly G1800 and U2100). Masthead amplifiers installed.

Each ESN site has to have at least two independent backhauls, which for remote sites in a microwave daisy chain means a VSAT backhaul is used for failover. You can see this in the elevation plan at the bottom of the mast.

Emerson M35 cabinets contain battery backup and power conversion. For sites where power feeds aren't current available, permanent generators are installed.

The big question is whether commercial EE customers will be allowed to use the ESN sites. Originally that answer depended on who funded the site. In situations where EE fully funded the site, then the Home Office would allow EE to also make that site available to commercial customers. However for remote rural sites that EE determined to be "commercially unviable" and therefore the Home Office had to part fund, then the Home Office were favourable towards allowing EE to make those sites available commercially although they didn't explicitly have permission,

Now Vodafone/O2/H3G has got wind of this and are less than happy, raising the issue with the Public Accounts Committee, it seems less likely that EE commercial customers will be given access, at least until the rival commercial operators have been allowed to install their equipment on the same sites.

Watch this space...!

ESN does not use conventional handsets they are specific to the contract so users could be excluded that way