[d123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_bl1

Now Vodafone/O2/H3G has got wind of this and are less than happy, raising the issue with the Public Accounts Committee, it seems less likely that EE commercial customers will be given access, at least until the rival commercial operators have been allowed to install their equipment on the same sites.

Watch this space...!

Your linked story doesn't make the same point that you are trying to make, Vodafone is unhappy that they won't be getting advance notice of where the ESN sites will be, which they say will make future planning more difficult, there isn't any reference to the sites not also being using for commercial coverage (not even by the other networks except for a reference to EE using small sites that won't accommodate all the other networks).

Every recent report about ESN sites that I've seen references the commercial use of the sites as a given.

[David_bl1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobilecentre

ESN does not use conventional handsets they are specific to the contract so users could be excluded that way

Not quite. The devices are a mixture of off-the-shelf LTE smartphones/tablets plus a few more specialist options. EE issue ESN users with a special SIM card which allows them access to higher network priorities, special APNs, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

Your linked story doesn't make the same point that you are trying to make, Vodafone is unhappy that they won't be getting advance notice of where the ESN sites will be, which they say will make future planning more difficult, there isn't any reference to the sites not also being using for commercial coverage (not even by the other networks except for a reference to EE using small sites that won't accommodate all the other networks).

Every recent report about ESN sites that I've seen references the commercial use of the sites as a given.

My point was that EE could launch a commercial 4G service on a rural ESN site from the moment it becomes live. However other operators could not until they could install additional equipment, backhaul, etc. Their argument is this gives EE a huge time advantage, and little incentive to help other operators access the sites, therefore EE should not be allowed to enable commercial service until the other network operators are also allowed to install equipment, levelleling the commercial playing field.

Personally I cannot wait for EE to launch commercial services on these sites; the rural coverage will be incredible!

[mobilecentre]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_bl1

Not quite. The devices are a mixture of off-the-shelf LTE smartphones/tablets plus a few more specialist options. EE issue ESN users with a special SIM card which allows them access to higher network priorities, special APNs, etc.!

Not sure on that as all devices used on ESN have to meet the requirements of UDTAS (User Device Type Approval Specification) and NATS certification (Network Approval Testing Service) which will be carried out by Motorola Solutions who are charging £25k fee for NATS.

EE & Motorola only released the spec a month ago to vendors to start looking at hardware and then applying for NATS.

Off the shelf devices are unsuitable as certain mission critical applications need to be embedded so they cannot be accidentally deleted.

There is then the question of mobile devices which will be fixed in vehicle but may act as a relay for data and voice from handhelds which again will be ESN specific.

[dts5000]

Do EE allow access to 800mhz for payg mobile and payg data sims?

[packages]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dts5000

Do EE allow access to 800mhz for payg mobile and payg data sims?

800mhz hasn't been officially launched yet but I would guess at launch it will only be pay monthly users as 4G Calling requires you to be a pay monthly user currently

[DevonBloke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by packages

800mhz hasn't been officially launched yet but I would guess at launch it will only be pay monthly users as 4G Calling requires you to be a pay monthly user currently

Correct. I suspect this is a temporary situation though. The extra coverage provided by 800 will a very good reason to change over to a contract for many which is really where EE would like all their customers.
Ultimately it will be available for all since EE also want as many users on VoLTE as possible as soon as possible in order to free up some 2100 and get that L1800 powered up.

[David_bl1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobilecentre

Not sure on that as all devices used on ESN have to meet the requirements of UDTAS (User Device Type Approval Specification) and NATS certification (Network Approval Testing Service) which will be carried out by Motorola Solutions who are charging £25k fee for NATS.

EE & Motorola only released the spec a month ago to vendors to start looking at hardware and then applying for NATS.

Off the shelf devices are unsuitable as certain mission critical applications need to be embedded so they cannot be accidentally deleted.

There is then the question of mobile devices which will be fixed in vehicle but may act as a relay for data and voice from handhelds which again will be ESN specific.

The actual hardware isn't ESN specific, but the firmware/software layer is.

It's the same concept as a Samsung smartphone being able to operate on any mobile network (off-the-shelf hardware), but each operator having branded firmware with their specific apps, service settings and configuration pre-installed and compatibility tested.

No manufacturer will ever build a bespoke hardware device for a single contract. 300,000 units for ESN may sound like a lot, but for volume manufacturing you have to be thinking in the millions to make a decent profit margin. However manufacturers can and do customise the firmware and software stack for specific operators which is where the ESN requirement you mentioned above come in.

UDTAS sets out the minimum hardware requirements the device must provide in order to run the mission critical software applications. Apart from a very specific requirement that needs 3GPP Release 12 support therefore demanding very recent radio chipsets, the rest of the requirements can easily be met by commercial products on the market today.

NATS also isn't completely unique to ESN. Every mobile operator either requests or requires device manufacturers to demonstrate compliance with their network before being allowed to connect. Generally this is a harmonised process managed through GCF, but some operators have extended requirements. For ESN, the NATS is essentially GCF + ESN-specific extensions for the software stack.

The relay mode you mention is an open standard defined in 3GPP Release 12 called "User equipment to network relay" which is part of proximity services. As it's part of the 3GPP standard, it will in time be available in every device, although it's unlikely many operators beyond EE ESN will enable it for their users.

Apologies to all for straying off topic a bit...! I'll be quiet now.

[mobilecentre]

I was trying to define that you will have to use a ESN handset to use the ESN network as such, you could not take an off the shelf as in buy a handset from CPW and use it, rather a standard handset with ESN firmware. I do not know if the handsets will be running standard power levels or higher ones which may help with the ESN coverage.

Back on topic it will be interesting to see how the network changes over the next twelve months whilst coverage is increased ready for the ESN launch and what benefits there will be to the consumer such as access to the underground coverage required for stations, railways etc.

[packages]

Doesn't seem like 800mhz is being launched until 2017 now does it?

[jonmorris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by packages

Doesn't seem like 800mhz is being launched until 2017 now does it?

I think that was becoming clear a while ago, especially as not as many sites were upgraded as some of us perhaps imagined.

[packages]

Quote:

Originally Posted by packages

Doesn't seem like 800mhz is being launched until 2017 now does it?

I know it's just very disappointing when Mr Bennett said it would launch in late 2015...

[georgi_prodanov]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I think that was becoming clear a while ago, especially as not as many sites were upgraded as some of us perhaps imagined.

ok but they can switch on the sites upgraded with 4G800 kit. Cant they? If they have 1000 sites 4G800 ready for example turned on they can keep adding new sites. What is the problem with that

[jonmorris]

I assume EE is planning to do a big and high profile launch. By doing so, it needs to have the network capable of matching expectations.

Also, delays getting all (most) Android handsets updated for VoLTE is also a likely cause of delay.

[DevonBloke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgi_prodanov

ok but they can switch on the sites upgraded with 4G800 kit. Cant they? If they have 1000 sites 4G800 ready for example turned on they can keep adding new sites. What is the problem with that

Nothing at all and that's what probably will happen. More sites can be added later

[plymouthbloke1974]

They're keeping L800 very secretive.... the internal coverage checkers don't show any active sites at all apart from a couple in the capital.

[Ed3925]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevonBloke

Nothing at all and that's what probably will happen. More sites can be added later

I suspect it might be a similar situation to VoLTE ie. certain devices can access 800 MHz, in certain areas.... with further sites and an official launch coming later.

EE won't just 'turn it on' one day, they will test various configurations at different locations first.

[jonmorris]

I know they're really starting to pressure manufacturers to get VoLTE working - and not just on EE supplied phones. And I know Huawei has issues (so no Nexus 6P support yet, or even the new Mate 9 despite it working on Three) so I assume that once most of these are sorted, they're another step closer to launching.

[georgi_prodanov]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I know they're really starting to pressure manufacturers to get VoLTE working - and not just on EE supplied phones. And I know Huawei has issues (so no Nexus 6P support yet, or even the new Mate 9 despite it working on Three) so I assume that once most of these are sorted, they're another step closer to launching.

Ok Jon but they can launch the 4G800 with very few devices like Three did in the beginning of rolling out the super voice.

[_m]

A riddle
wrapped in a mystery,
inside an enigma

[DevonBloke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I know they're really starting to pressure manufacturers to get VoLTE working - and not just on EE supplied phones. And I know Huawei has issues (so no Nexus 6P support yet, or even the new Mate 9 despite it working on Three) so I assume that once most of these are sorted, they're another step closer to launching.

But why would they need all those working to launch it? Might actually be better to launch first and get more devices added later. Then you don't have 10 quintillion devices jumping on it on day one.

[seatmad]

With esn being rolled out in stages do we think we will see EE pushing 800mhz in those area 's first as the emergency services move across instead of rolling it out across the country roughly at the same time.

[jonmorris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgi_prodanov

Ok Jon but they can launch the 4G800 with very few devices like Three did in the beginning of rolling out the super voice.

Of course they can. They could also use an app like inTouch for the others, but I know the app idea was rejected early on and so have to conclude that when they launch, they want most users - new and old - able to benefit.

I guess they know only too well what negative publicity they'd get.

In the case of Three, it's a smaller network but could anyone regard it's 800 rollout as successful - or that people sign up to the network to use it? If they can at all?

VoLTE is a mess and I am sure EE saw how it worked for others and decided to hold on.

[packages]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seatmad

With esn being rolled out in stages do we think we will see EE pushing 800mhz in those area 's first as the emergency services move across instead of rolling it out across the country roughly at the same time.

I would have thought that EE would want 800mhz to be live and have matured for a while before ESN becomes live so that any early issues with 800mhz have already been resolved.

[DevonBloke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by packages

I would have thought that EE would want 800mhz to be live and have matured for a while before ESN becomes live so that any early issues with 800mhz have already been resolved.

And if you thought that you would almost certainly be thinking along the right lines....

[packages]

Coverage map has been updated again today.