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EE 2G/3G/4G Discussion Thread (Part 2)
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beans0ntoast
24-08-2016
Originally Posted by ozz:
“In a phone cradle my phone hung onto a 4G signal and was still able to stream radio at Babingley Bridge which is in that dip.

Historically my phone always used to drop to 2G around Sandringham until I got to the Dersingham roundabout but last week 4G throughout.”

There is a small amount of 3G in that wooded area as my S4 does pick up 3G (when forced to 3G, god knows what it does in default mode...) though just between the wooded area and that steep hill, there are a few seconds of no service. Funnily enough, there is a TV repeater somewhere in that forest, as well as a mast for all mobile ops, but 2100MHz doesn't like travelling through trees!

I'll have to lock my S4 to 4G only when I go along that way next, to see if it can pick up any of it... 4G only should also be more reliable than 3G only, in the long term, because 4G can go right into the -120s dBm (sometimes even -130dBm) and still have a decent download speed, whereas 3G stops at -113dBm and 2G is just unsuitable for streaming any sort of media.
jaffboy151
24-08-2016
Originally Posted by Icaraa:
“I see you're in Cheshire. I've never encountered that issue on Three in West Cheshire or Merseyside. Also seems fine in North and Mid Wales, Central London, Kent, Edinburgh and Cumbria! They are just the places I've been to recently.

I switched to EE last week and this has become. Regular problem, not good.”

Originally Posted by beans0ntoast:
“When I've tested both 3 and EE side by side, I've noticed that they are both usable in the vast majority of areas. Sometimes, on 3G, I have noticed Three being faster than EE, but then again, with areas getting EE 4G, EE seems to be the faster option in many areas.

As for your area, sounds like all masts are either on copper backhaul, or on microwave backhaul (with all masts being in a single daisy chain - with the "supply" mast being on copper itself). Some of the older Orange masts tend to have copper backhaul, and hence there is very little throughput.”

I live in roughly the same area as Cheshire bumpkin albeit a little further south, and he's totally correct, oodles of three/EE masts around here proudly displaying great 3g signals with virtually no throughout {often sub edge speeds), those mixed in with a still substantial amount of 2g orange masts awaiting upgrades or death. I was hoping to switch to EE next month but little has changed on this issue around here, 800mhz 4g would largely solve it but unless your an iPhone user your a bit out of luck on EE just now for new tech like VoLTE and 800mhz.
Three have made improvements in this area over the past 12 months but there 800mhz and the priority level they have make it not quite good enough yet.. So I guess I'm stuck Vodafone for another 12 months..
DevonBloke
24-08-2016
Been to Looe today. Great 4G there. Single mast covering the whole town although there are others close by. Loads of people there today, it was packed. Speeds were 35 - 90Mbps so great! 1800+800 CA too.
natbike
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by beans0ntoast:
“...and copper backhaul is unsuitable for 3G, let alone 4G....”

I'm not sure how you've reached that conclusion. Copper is easily capable of 155Mbps links and they can be easily aggregated.

Fibre is used as it's generally slightly less expensive at the same speed, reaches higher speeds without aggregation, and more easily upgraded later, but copper is also capable.
Icaraa
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by natbike:
“I'm not sure how you've reached that conclusion. Copper is easily capable of 155Mbps links and they can be easily aggregated.

Fibre is used as it's generally slightly less expensive at the same speed, reaches higher speeds without aggregation, and more easily upgraded later, but copper is also capable.”

EE and Three use BT backhaul from the masts. I can't think of a technology suitable for this use that BT have that would provide 155Mb over copper. Could you explain what you mean?
Stereo Steve
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by beans0ntoast:
“Out of interest what is your old phone? More modern than an S4? ”

Honor 7. Good phone but just want back to iOS. Ended up using the wife's iPhone 4 most of the holiday.
Stereo Steve
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by d123:
“Just a quick bit of mental arithmetic would say you might be wrong.

IPhone SE is around £15 a month over 24 months for the 16GB, £23 a month for 25GB a month seems cheaper than an EE sim only for that amount of data at present.”

It is actually a good deal. Sim only 25GB is £35 on EE business so that's only £3 a month less than the £38 I'm paying. I'm getting the 64GB so that would come in at £18 a month. So I'm getting 25GB a month for £20 effectively. Plus VAT of course but I get that back.
David_bl1
25-08-2016
Map of proposed new EE 4G sites to support forthcoming ESN:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/..._New_Masts.png

Blue dots = Brand new sites, built by EE, that will support both ESN and commercial services. EE will fund, build and operate these sites, most of which will become part of their current core network.

Red dots = Extended coverage sites funded and owned by the Home Office. Typically in rural, remote and commercially unviable areas. Primary for ESN but may also provide commercial services. EE will install their equipment and connect to their core network.

Green dots = Air-to-ground sites, used for linking ESN to police helicopters, air ambulances, etc. Mostly sharing of existing sites.

Note the map does not show existing EE sites which will be upgraded, hence the lack of dots in much of England.

Even if only the blue dot sites are opened up for commercial service, then this will represent a significant coverage boost for public EE 4G users, particularly at 800MHz and with VoLTE.
Denco1
25-08-2016
Thanks for the share.
I guess that is the map of the 750 new masts EE promised, to bring us to 95% geographic coverage. It's great that we are able to see all this information in the public domain, as it's clear EE actually intend to reach their targets instead of hopelessly overestimating.
Coverage in Scotland looks set for a big improvement, Wales not so much unless the red dot sites are opened up for commercial service.

Also is there a map for Northern Ireland?
d123
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by David_bl1:
“Even if only the blue dot sites are opened up for commercial service, then this will represent a significant coverage boost for public EE 4G users, particularly at 800MHz and with VoLTE.”

Those living around the national parks and far north of England and Scotland are going to be dancing with joy .
beans0ntoast
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by Stereo Steve:
“Honor 7. Good phone but just want back to iOS. Ended up using the wife's iPhone 4 most of the holiday.”

I wonder if the Honor 7 does VoLTE or whether it would be using CSFB for the majority/whole of its lifetime?

I can see how you'd wanted to remain on iOS if that's what you've been used to.

On an EE related note, I got a message saying that out of bundle items are going up... 50p per minute outside of allowance! How extortionate....
Also MMS will be 50p each... Can't you do the same thing on WhatsApp for 69p a year, or something like that?
InfamousTeal
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by David_bl1:
“Map of proposed new EE 4G sites to support forthcoming ESN:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/..._New_Masts.png

Blue dots = Brand new sites, built by EE, that will support both ESN and commercial services. EE will fund, build and operate these sites, most of which will become part of their current core network.

Red dots = Extended coverage sites funded and owned by the Home Office. Typically in rural, remote and commercially unviable areas. Primary for ESN but may also provide commercial services. EE will install their equipment and connect to their core network.

Green dots = Air-to-ground sites, used for linking ESN to police helicopters, air ambulances, etc. Mostly sharing of existing sites.

Note the map does not show existing EE sites which will be upgraded, hence the lack of dots in much of England.

Even if only the blue dot sites are opened up for commercial service, then this will represent a significant coverage boost for public EE 4G users, particularly at 800MHz and with VoLTE.”

Are EE not providing Emergency Services network in Northern Ireland?
Stereo Steve
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by beans0ntoast:
“I wonder if the Honor 7 does VoLTE or whether it would be using CSFB for the majority/whole of its lifetime?

I can see how you'd wanted to remain on iOS if that's what you've been used to.

On an EE related note, I got a message saying that out of bundle items are going up... 50p per minute outside of allowance! How extortionate....
Also MMS will be 50p each... Can't you do the same thing on WhatsApp for 69p a year, or something like that?”

Who cares? I'm Android free once Hayley, our excellent DPD driver turns up between 15.48 and 16.48 today. VOD have predictably not sent me a PAC by text as they promised but I did get one off the chap I phoned who was a very nice bloke. So I hope that works.

Use Whatsapp for most of my texting and now got it on the PC, which is cool. A luddite I am.
d123
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by beans0ntoast:
“I wonder if the Honor 7 does VoLTE or whether it would be using CSFB for the majority/whole of its lifetime? ”

If I had to guess, I see CSFB in its long term future


Quote:
“On an EE related note, I got a message saying that out of bundle items are going up... 50p per minute outside of allowance! How extortionate....
Also MMS will be 50p each... Can't you do the same thing on WhatsApp for 69p a year, or something like that?”

Considering most plans have unlimited minutes and texts, and no one uses MMS it's not going to worry most users...
David_bl1
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by InfamousTeal:
“Are EE not providing Emergency Services network in Northern Ireland? ”

No. Northern Ireland has their own independent TETRA network run by the Police Service of Northern Ireland for all the emergency services. So no additional coverage obligations for EE in NI unfortunately.
moox
25-08-2016
Interesting to see that England is already quite well served.

Originally Posted by InfamousTeal:
“Are EE not providing Emergency Services network in Northern Ireland? ”

Google suggests that Airwave (the existing TETRA network used by the services) wasn't built out in NI either. Perhaps the NI government does their own thing?
CheshireBumpkin
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by David_bl1:
“Map of proposed new EE 4G sites to support forthcoming ESN”

It's great to see that EE have a sufficient existing network of 4G sites in South Cheshire and Shropshire to provide a reliable and fast service.

*checks 2G symbol on phone*

Oh, hang on....
Icaraa
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by CheshireBumpkin:
“It's great to see that EE have a sufficient existing network of 4G sites in South Cheshire and Shropshire to provide a reliable and fast service.

*checks 2G symbol on phone*

Oh, hang on.... ”

Lucky if you get any signal in some parts of Wirral. So what's their plan there?
CheshireBumpkin
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by Icaraa:
“Lucky if you get any signal in some parts of Wirral. So what's their plan there?”

I'd hazard a guess it'll be EE's two favourite words:

Quote:
“Coming Soon”

Icaraa
25-08-2016
Seriously though, looking at Wirral as an example there's no additional sites planned. They're already using 800Mhz for 2G, correct? But there's blackspots. Unless I'm missing something the only other solution is to add more transmitters? Is it possible to increase power? You can ramp up coverage on the Dee side of the peninsula by adding directional panels to blast the signal over the River Dee from Wales but I would have thought they're already doing that. Central Wirral just needs more transmitters though.
d123
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by Icaraa:
“Seriously though, looking at Wirral as an example there's no additional sites planned. They're already using 800Mhz for 2G, correct? ”

No...
Synthetic42
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by Icaraa:
“Seriously though, looking at Wirral as an example there's no additional sites planned. They're already using 800Mhz for 2G, correct? But there's blackspots. Unless I'm missing something the only other solution is to add more transmitters? Is it possible to increase power? You can ramp up coverage on the Dee side of the peninsula by adding directional panels to blast the signal over the River Dee from Wales but I would have thought they're already doing that. Central Wirral just needs more transmitters though.”

2G is on 1800, the only 800 EE are using right now is for 4G
Stereo Steve
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by Icaraa:
“Seriously though, looking at Wirral as an example there's no additional sites planned. They're already using 800Mhz for 2G, correct? But there's blackspots. Unless I'm missing something the only other solution is to add more transmitters? Is it possible to increase power? You can ramp up coverage on the Dee side of the peninsula by adding directional panels to blast the signal over the River Dee from Wales but I would have thought they're already doing that. Central Wirral just needs more transmitters though.”

What? No.
Stereo Steve
25-08-2016
Got my SE. It's sexy piece of kit after a year of Android. Oh Yeah. Not quite as lush as the 4S but close. This is the phone I need.
beans0ntoast
25-08-2016
Originally Posted by d123:
“If I had to guess, I see CSFB in its long term future




Considering most plans have unlimited minutes and texts, and no one uses MMS it's not going to worry most users...”

1) Drat. I was hoping to upgrade to a phone that has VoLTE support (and isn't an iPhone), so that I can use 800MHz (when fully rolled out on high power), 1800MHz and 2100MHz (3G currently) to avoid the use of 2G (whilst maximizing coverage). Sooner or later, with 800 on high power and me using a VoLTE phone, I wouldn't even need 3G again, let alone 2G.

2) I do know of quite a few people who don't use services such as WhatsApp, thus MMS being necessary on some occasions. As for the minutes, I do have unlimited minutes but I hope that the PAYG rate doesn't go up to 50p/min, as that is extortionate and 3 321 would be miles better!
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