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PC Complains about the shows handling by beeb |
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#1 |
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PC Complains about the shows handling by beeb
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor-...-frustrate-me/
Good on him. Its about time someone actually said what an awful lot of people are thinking. What really depresses me they wouldn't dare mess East Enders around but everything else at the moment is fair game. |
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#2 |
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It's a case of history repeating itself.
Makes you wonder why bother bringing the show back. |
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#3 |
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Well said Peter, sadly i don't think they care at all.
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#4 |
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What really depresses me they wouldn't dare mess East Enders around .
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#5 |
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Except that they do - dropping days for football or other sporting events, shifting it from BBC One to BBC Two when an Andy Murray Wimbledon match is on (often at very short notice, sometimes an hour or less) for example.
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#6 |
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Except is any of that the BBC's fault? It was always more of a case that the show runner/crew/production team decided when the show was made based on their availability etc. We know, for example, that the break this year is nothing to do with the BBC but due to Moffat's schedule.
The only thing the BBC could control was the airdate and frankly there's little scope in that. Strictly takes up a huge chunk of the Saturday night autumn schedule and due to factors beyond their control they can't move it later. That means putting DW on at 6pm or earlier which isn't really a timeslot that would suit it with the tone and content of the last series. The BBC have every reason to care about DW - it makes lots of money for the worldwide arm of the corporation - and blaming them just feels like a very easy scapegoat. |
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#7 |
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But that is sporting events, they have contracts in place about it, and they'll only postpone an episode.
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#8 |
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But I thought they were creating gaps between series to make the show more popular
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#9 |
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Everything that Peter is saying we've been saying ourselves and he's right. There's a sense of complacency/taking the show for granted coming from the BBC, especially with the way Series 9 was promoted/handled/scheduled. Hopefully moving the show back to spring for Series 10 will get them to re-evaluate how they treat the show.
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#10 |
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Except is any of that the BBC's fault? It was always more of a case that the show runner/crew/production team decided when the show was made based on their availability etc. We know, for example, that the break this year is nothing to do with the BBC but due to Moffat's schedule.
The only thing the BBC could control was the airdate and frankly there's little scope in that. Strictly takes up a huge chunk of the Saturday night autumn schedule and due to factors beyond their control they can't move it later. That means putting DW on at 6pm or earlier which isn't really a timeslot that would suit it with the tone and content of the last series. The BBC have every reason to care about DW - it makes lots of money for the worldwide arm of the corporation - and blaming them just feels like a very easy scapegoat. |
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#11 |
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What would he gain by risking trouble with the BBC to tell such a bare-faced lie though? They're generally very careless with the way they handle shows (remember the late 80's) and Doctor Who being a little scarier and darker never stopped them airing it at a reasonable time before. I see no reason to doubt the show isn't being looked after properly by them.
Scheduling? yes of course that is down to the bbc, and he is right to point them out on that one. Other stuff though like gap years and split years etc seem largely down to Moffat and his schedule, so I don't really know how the bbc can be blamed for every woe the show has endured in recent years. It's interesting though that although new who has never seemed to have a concrete regular slot, that for 4 years of RTD, It always mostly seemed to be tethered to starting between 7pm-8pm and it's only really since the Moffat times, that we've had such extremes as 6pm starts right through to 8.30 or later starts. Why the change? |
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#12 |
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Seems a bit of a grey area to put the blame of everything at the BBC.
Scheduling? yes of course that is down to the bbc, and he is right to point them out on that one. Other stuff though like gap years and split years etc seem largely down to Moffat and his schedule, so I don't really know how the bbc can be blamed for every woe the show has endured in recent years. It's interesting though that although new who has never seemed to have a concrete regular slot, that for 4 years of RTD, It always mostly seemed to be tethered to starting between 7pm-8pm and it's only really since the Moffat times, that we've had such extremes as 6pm starts right through to 8.30 or later starts. Why the change? Series 7 was split, as I understand it, as a decision made by the BBC. A choice made as a money saving measure that meant that they could cover up the absence of a series - in either 2012 or 2013 depending on which way you look at it. With only two episodes actually being produced in 2013 itself, it was arguably the biggest gap year until now. With Class also in production this year, 2013 may still stand as the biggest gap year of all, ironically enough. The gap between Series 9 and Series 10 is, I maintain from a sort-of theory I posted a while back, down to the BBC again. I think they slacked or failed to find a successor to Moffat in time. They eventually secured Chibnall but he wasn't available for scripts or production until 2017, a debut series not possible until 2018. They'd messed up, and couldn't have Series 10 going out in 2017. Cue a likely big sum of money and his fanboy obligation and Moffat signs up for one more year than he'd intended, as is backed up by his comments on promotion of Series 8 and of The Husbands of River Song. Series 10 is thus basically there to break the gap up now rather than a product that was predetermined. In that event, Moffat has actually saved us from a gap of over twice as long, and Capaldi is right to defend a brand which he is both passionate about and which is his main role right now. When you factor in the poor scheduling and promotion of Series 9 as well, Capaldi is again absolutely right to call out the BBC for poor treatment of one of their most profitable brands. Such criticism is actually more in their interests than his, and I agree with him entirely. |
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#13 |
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Quote:
O
Series 7 was split, as I understand it, as a decision made by the BBC. A choice made as a money saving measure that meant that they could cover up the absence of a series - in either 2012 or 2013 depending on which way you look at it. Quote:
The gap between Series 9 and Series 10 is, I maintain from a sort-of theory I posted a while back, down to the BBC again. I think they slacked or failed to find a successor to Moffat in time. They eventually secured Chibnall but he wasn't available for scripts or production until 2017, a debut series not possible until 2018. They'd messed up, and couldn't have Series 10 going out in 2017. Cue a likely big sum of money and his fanboy obligation and Moffat signs up for one more year than he'd intended, as is backed up by his comments on promotion of Series 8 and of The Husbands of River Song. Series 10 is thus basically there to break the gap up now rather than a product that was predetermined. In that event, Moffat has actually saved us from a gap of over twice as long, and Capaldi is right to defend a brand which he is both passionate about and which is his main role right now. When you factor in the poor scheduling and promotion of Series 9 as well, Capaldi is again absolutely right to call out the BBC for poor treatment of one of their most profitable brands. Such criticism is actually more in their interests than his, and I agree with him entirely.
Yeah, I think whether Series 10 had been ready for this year or next, Chibnall's obligations would likely still mean he can only begin a series ready for 2018 at the earliest. Moffat probably decided to take the break for him and the rest of the crew as soon as they could to be more ready for the next series.As for the Series 6 split, I actually quite enjoyed that one. It meant the series was more evenly spread out throughout the year, though I enjoyed it markedly more during the autumn time, even if the episodes weren't as good. It's still one of my favourites series of New Who and I love where the first half left off, making the next half all the more exciting. Series 7's split, though, was just not so great. Besides the poor Christmas special, it was the first Who had been back in a year, and we only got five episodes. |
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#14 |
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According to DWM magazine, the later broadcast time for series 9 must have been known at the point of filming as it gave them the ability to show more blood and gore than previously permitted. A recent edition of the magazine included several interviews and quotes confirming this. It wasn't some sort of last-minute decision taking everyone by surprise!
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#15 |
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On the contrary, Moffat pushed for only one gap year which was in Series 6. Whilst delivering scripts on time certainly played its part, the decision for Series 6 to be split was also arguably down to a creative choice to deliver a bigger cliffhanger than usual. Of course that could just be the spin they put on the whole thing when the reality was wholly about script deadlines not being met, but then it needs to also be remembered that at the time there was a massively vocal opinion in favour of shifting the show to autumn. It was at the time something a lot of people wanted, and the BBC were not going to complain about being able to spread broadcast across a wider window of time throughout 2011.
Series 7 was split, as I understand it, as a decision made by the BBC. A choice made as a money saving measure that meant that they could cover up the absence of a series - in either 2012 or 2013 depending on which way you look at it. With only two episodes actually being produced in 2013 itself, it was arguably the biggest gap year until now. With Class also in production this year, 2013 may still stand as the biggest gap year of all, ironically enough. The gap between Series 9 and Series 10 is, I maintain from a sort-of theory I posted a while back, down to the BBC again. I think they slacked or failed to find a successor to Moffat in time. They eventually secured Chibnall but he wasn't available for scripts or production until 2017, a debut series not possible until 2018. They'd messed up, and couldn't have Series 10 going out in 2017. Cue a likely big sum of money and his fanboy obligation and Moffat signs up for one more year than he'd intended, as is backed up by his comments on promotion of Series 8 and of The Husbands of River Song. Series 10 is thus basically there to break the gap up now rather than a product that was predetermined. In that event, Moffat has actually saved us from a gap of over twice as long, and Capaldi is right to defend a brand which he is both passionate about and which is his main role right now. When you factor in the poor scheduling and promotion of Series 9 as well, Capaldi is again absolutely right to call out the BBC for poor treatment of one of their most profitable brands. Such criticism is actually more in their interests than his, and I agree with him entirely. Any production team that cant see the potential drama to exploit in the simple case highlighted here (where a good man goes to war takes place some time after the ganger reveal, making it IDEAL to make people wait for it and give more weight to Rory saying Where is my wife? because significant time would have elapsed for him and us, making the leap from cliffhanger to its resolution less jarring and more earned) is going to have trouble with its admin. Drama within the show should be paramount, drama behind the scenes, of which there will always be some, shouldnt even merit discussion because it is showbiz and in showbiz, all shenanigans pale into insignificance if the biz of the show genuinely does the biz. Something is wrong somewhere. None of us genuinely know what it is, but there are times when it seems a show with amazing dramatic potential is being administered by people who are great at hyping up a series but not so great at (or not competent enough to keep) delivering consistency of quality and willing to accept writing logic leaps and lack of payoff to storylines begun, because of writing into a corner, constantly and doing the writing equivalent of shouting LOOK! SQUIRREL! then faffing an explanation that makes little to no sense if you aren't looking at the squirrel. #basic rules of narrative matter #get the show the best it can be and nobody will be discussing the behind the scenes politics anyway #the show is too big to be repeatedly placed entirely into the hands of one writer when what it needs is many minds coming upwith the episodes and if one overseer is employed they should not write the show because writers get blinkered as to the merits of the work of others and are likely to veto amazing ideas from others in favour of their own preferred comfort zone material #same mistake has already been made again by employing asingle showrunner with head writer role to follow the current one who like the previous one increasingly dominated the show with their own writing style rather than being an overseer who is in the audience position of looking at stories with fresh eyes and no personalego stake in, but with the professional expertise to ask the kind of questions about story logic and random resolutions plucked from the air currently asked by nerds like us on the internet. #even I am glad I didnt write these faux hashtags without spaces between the words in the style of real hashtags |
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#16 |
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http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor-...-frustrate-me/
Good on him. Its about time someone actually said what an awful lot of people are thinking. What really depresses me they wouldn't dare mess East Enders around but everything else at the moment is fair game. The Friday Night edition is particularly vulnerable, not just to sporting events but to charity telethons as well. Therefore we either get three episodes with five another week or they as they have done recently they show an extra episode on Thursday. That in turn means shifting other shows such as Room 101 around or cancelling them completely. So though I agree Doctor Who needs more stability in it's transmission time and dates etc, I think it's wrong to suggest EastEnders is invulnerable to change. Unlike Doctor Who it is an all year round show showing four times a week. Now and again it gets shifted and some of the soaps on the other side get shoved round for similar reasons.
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#17 |
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Any production team that cant see the potential drama to exploit in the simple case highlighted here (where a good man goes to war takes place some time after the ganger reveal, making it IDEAL to make people wait for it and give more weight to Rory saying Where is my wife? because significant time would have elapsed for him and us, making the leap from cliffhanger to its resolution less jarring and more earned) is going to have trouble with its admin.
Series 6 as a whole though, a structural mess I think. Having rewatched much of the arc story again quite recently, it's even poorer than I remember it to be. Such a shame as the enthusiasm from all the actors was there, the effects were mostly astounding, the cinematography of Series 6 I felt was some of the best it's every been. But plot-wise and structurally it collapsed under its own weight. I agree the cut off was poorly conceived, and I also feel the finale needed to be more than the 45 minute mess than it was. The whole series felt very top heavy, lots of promise lacking in satisfactory delivery. |
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#18 |
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Yeah, I think whether Series 10 had been ready for this year or next, Chibnall's obligations would likely still mean he can only begin a series ready for 2018 at the earliest. Moffat probably decided to take the break for him and the rest of the crew as soon as they could to be more ready for the next series.
As for the Series 6 split, I actually quite enjoyed that one. It meant the series was more evenly spread out throughout the year, though I enjoyed it markedly more during the autumn time, even if the episodes weren't as good. It's still one of my favourites series of New Who and I love where the first half left off, making the next half all the more exciting. Series 7's split, though, was just not so great. Besides the poor Christmas special, it was the first Who had been back in a year, and we only got five episodes. I think Chibnall would be able to get a series out for late 2017 if they were in pursuit of it. But the reception and struggle of Series 9 in the late 2015 slot has shown them that the show benefits from its spring broadcast date. It was impossible to bring Chibnall's series forward to early 2017, so early 2018 is what it had to be. Finding themselves with a huge gap until the next series, the BBC chucks a bit more money at Moffat to stay an extra year to bridge that gap with one last series from him. For me Series 6 was full of promise that it didn't deliver on, and a self-importance in regards to its arc that drew a distinct divide between the all-encompassing astronaut story and the supposedly inconsequential standalone stories. It was a cruel irony then that I felt Series 6 had some of the strongest standalones of the Moffat era. The Doctor's Wife, The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex are all episodes I enjoyed far more than the bigger events going on. The split didn't bother me particularly, but then neither did the cliffhanger in the middle. Series 7 was a more obvious money-cutting measure where its split was concerned. With different companions on either side, a change to the Doctor's outfit, the console room changing, the opening titles changing it's hard to deny that it feels like two very seperate series. It wasn't coherent or well-paced. I feel Moffat may have been in a tough position forced to deliver a slur of standalone stories that were largely interchangeable. |
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#19 |
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According to DWM magazine, the later broadcast time for series 9 must have been known at the point of filming as it gave them the ability to show more blood and gore than previously permitted. A recent edition of the magazine included several interviews and quotes confirming this. It wasn't some sort of last-minute decision taking everyone by surprise!
I've said it before, but whatever people say that IS a good slot. DW gets a massive lead in on the biggest TV viewing nights of the year and was against an ailing X Factor. Merlin did extremely well in exactly the same slot during its latter two series. The real test is it moving back to Spring as whilst it will have no competition and be on earlier, it will also have to stand basically on its own. That's a pretty dead time of year for Saturday night TV and it'll depend on people making time to sit down and watch it rather than an audience already being there just because they have the TV on. |
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#20 |
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Absolutely. They knew it would be in slot post SCD.
I've said it before, but whatever people say that IS a good slot. DW gets a massive lead in on the biggest TV viewing nights of the year and was against an ailing X Factor. Merlin did extremely well in exactly the same slot during its latter two series. The real test is it moving back to Spring as whilst it will have no competition and be on earlier, it will also have to stand basically on its own. That's a pretty dead time of year for Saturday night TV and it'll depend on people making time to sit down and watch it rather than an audience already being there just because they have the TV on. Since The Caretaker, viewer share hasn't hit 30% even once outside of Christmas...in fact it routinely falls below 25%. And to back up how big a deal that is, you have to go all the way back to Series 7's Nightmare in Silver before you find another episode that didn't get a 30% audience share. Prior to that only a handful of episodes had performed to this lower standard, but now it's the standard. Love the show or not, the late time slot has not done it any favours. And the reality is that an autumn time slot is not going to be affording the show any early scheduling any time soon - the likes of Strictly, and even the struggling X Factor still hold a monopoly over those earlier slots. Doctor Who held its own in the spring for many years, and such a notable decrease in viewer share cannot be ignored. When you have massive sports events going on you can excuse some episodes getting a low audience share (The Witch's Familiar, record low of 18%) but as a family show it also shouldn't be going out at a time when it's still on at 21:30 for consecutive weeks. The show held its own I believe, because it has a core viewership that just watches it regardless. But Series 9's scheduling was unfair to it, and not the kind of slot the show needs. The Husbands of River Song bounced back with an audience share of 34% - almost as big a share as Matt Smith's departing episode. Whilst being a Christmas episode (which always helps) it likely benefited from an earlier time slot too...one of the earliest the show has ever had admittedly. |
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#21 |
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Except the evidence proves otherwise, doesn't it?
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#22 |
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Just for your information: Claire only ever posts in subjects as an opportunity (direct or indirect) to attack Steven Moffat (in this instance indirectly as a key member of the Doctor Who production team). Check her posting history. She never makes any post whatsoever that doesn't further that agenda. There appears to be some pretty hardcore grudge behind it. There's not much point debating with her.
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#23 |
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What Michael Grade did with Doctor Who back in the mid 1980s was shocking. To have Doctor Who fans nearly in tears, thinking that it was being cancelled.
Then, just over 18 months later, announce that Colin Baker had been axed. It's sort of history repeating itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLT...etailpage#t=84 |
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#24 |
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I am not sure I understand the outrage. It is always shown early Saturday evening. Full stop.
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#25 |
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What Michael Grade did with Doctor Who back in the mid 1980s was shocking. To have Doctor Who fans nearly in tears, thinking that it was being cancelled.
Then, just over 18 months later, announce that Colin Baker had been axed. It's sort of history repeating itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLT...etailpage#t=84 I disagree for the most part. Sure, we are in for quite a wait until the next episode is broadcast, but the production itself has only been delayed by a few months. 2016 will see production of not just Doctor Who, but it's new spin off Class. |
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