DS Forums

 
 

The slow withdrawal of Apps for Windows Phone


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16-03-2016, 18:09
Everything Goes
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,257

While there might not be too many Windows Phone users out there it has to be said the platform has very few Apps compared with iOS and Android. So when Apps cease to be supported, get withdrawn or cease to function then it may be time to worry about future support for the platform. Yesterday Here Maps (Nokia owned) notified users it will be permanently removed from the Store later this month, and will cease to function completely on Windows 10 Mobile at the end of June.

Many years ago I owned Windows Mobile devices before Apple and Android came along. Microsoft withdrew support for their own Map app with reduced functionality. Thereafter I swore not to get another Microsoft Windows device.

http://www.neowin.net/news/why-it-ma...ows-phone-apps
Everything Goes is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 16-03-2016, 18:54
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,633
I'm pretty sure Here isn't owned by Nokia anymore - it was one of the post-MS selloffs on the way to reinventing themselves into being a huge telco equipment manufacturer.

I think a consortium of car companies owns it now?
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 19:07
Everything Goes
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,257
I'm pretty sure Here isn't owned by Nokia anymore - it was one of the post-MS selloffs on the way to reinventing themselves into being a huge telco equipment manufacturer.

I think a consortium of car companies owns it now?
Right enough Mercedes' owner Daimler, BMW, and Audi a VW subsidiary have bought it over.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/08/03/n...mercedes-audi/
Everything Goes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 20:01
stewiegriffin
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 257
was never a huge amount of apps anyway despite what the users proclaim. Its a beautiful looking operating system but a dying one.
stewiegriffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 20:09
daleski75
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Northampton
Posts: 1,014
Windows Phone has had years to gain apps and developers but it's gained no traction and is in fact losing market share.

Even RIM saw sense and ditched their Blackberry OS maybe Microsoft should follow suit.
daleski75 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 20:21
Aye Up
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West
Posts: 4,881
Windows Phone has had years to gain apps and developers but it's gained no traction and is in fact losing market share.

Even RIM saw sense and ditched their Blackberry OS maybe Microsoft should follow suit.
I doubt MS would follow suit in the literal sense, although they do have cloud packages which compliment Android very well.

Given MS is the only company developing and releasing Windows based handsets, I think any hope of consumer adoption is out the window. I do believe they will be able to leverage it well in enterprise, its a very good open operating system that can support a myriad of different requirements. In that sense it and Android have a lot in common, MS will quitely withdraw from the consumer market, while ramping its up in Enterprise.

Windows Phones are dead as a single issue, yet when thrown in with corporate packages, applications can be made universal and thus require little modification regardless of platform. It scales screensize rather well, Android cannot (apps on tablets look a sack of shit), theres life left in it, just not in the mainstream.
Aye Up is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 20:42
PrinceGaz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Posts: 8,175
Smartphones are all about apps, as I see it.

Apple were first with smartphones, and then apps, and are still mainly the dominant market when it comes to apps, at least in terms of revenue. They targeted the high-end and won.

Android managed to gain major market-share by selling cheaper devices where Apple were not interested in competing, such that there are enough people with them to make developing Android versions of apps worthwhile. There may be more Android devices out there, but Apple apps still tend to outsell Android apps, because many Android device owners don't even bother with third-party apps.

That leaves Windows phones in an impossible situation of very low market share and therefore very few apps. There are some very nice Windows phones out there hardware-spec wise for the price, but without the software, they are useless. If you are looking for a cheap phone to buy apps for, buying a Windows phone is nuts.

That said, Windows phones aren't going away as Windows 10 is the ongoing unified platform Microsoft have decided on going forwards for all devices. I believe they have some sort of emulation/translation thing for converting iOS apps to it, though they have recently dropped their Android equivalent. Going down the semi-automated conversion route is pretty much an admission that their own mobile-ecosystem has failed.

Really, Microsoft should just throw in the towel on the smartphone fight as Apple and Google have won this round.
PrinceGaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 20:53
aurichie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,099
Smartphones are all about apps, as I see it.

Really, Microsoft should just throw in the towel on the smartphone fight as Apple and Google have won this round.
It's an interesting one because the huge gold rush is over for a lot of developers now. Apps still make money but it's increasingly the big publishers or makers of games with the freemium model making fortunes.

There's been a lot of discussion of this in the iOS community. Increasingly people are happily making do with the stock apps for most things with the exception of gaming and social networking. If this trend continues, maybe Microsoft can still get somewhere. They are certainly trying to be smart and leverage their Xbox brand.

iOS has an incredible number of apps. But a dramatically smaller number of them are still actively developed or supported. There is little incentive with devs still unable to charge for upgrades the old fashioned way and fewer and fewer apps being sold by independents. And of course when you do have something neat, nobody wants to pay much more than s couple of quid for your software.

Obviously the smartest thing Microsoft is doing of all is offering its software and services to as many different platforms as possible. They know the Windows domination days are never coming back.
aurichie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 20:56
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,633
I doubt MS would follow suit in the literal sense, although they do have cloud packages which compliment Android very well.
I wouldn't say that. They'll adopt Android if it makes them more money.

They've just announced that they're going to release SQL Server for Linux.

This is the MS, who 10-15 years ago hated Linux with a passion and did everything it could to entrench a Windows monopoly in the server world too. Having lost that battle, they're finally embracing it
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 21:21
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
I wouldn't say that. They'll adopt Android if it makes them more money.

They've just announced that they're going to release SQL Server for Linux.

This is the MS, who 10-15 years ago hated Linux with a passion and did everything it could to entrench a Windows monopoly in the server world too. Having lost that battle, they're finally embracing it
They are providing their own Linux distribution too for Azure right...
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 21:26
ShaunIOW
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 7,810
Windows Phone has had years to gain apps and developers but it's gained no traction and is in fact losing market share.

Even RIM saw sense and ditched their Blackberry OS maybe Microsoft should follow suit.
Which was a shame as it was a great OS and the desktop app for it was the best I've used, plus the fact the Blackberry I had could run Android Apps and even have the Google Play store on it made it near perfect, it's just a shame is was quite low spec.
ShaunIOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 21:28
PrinceGaz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Posts: 8,175
I suppose Windows 10 could yet gain ground on phones with a unified platform where one program is designed for all screen sizes and interfaces. With reduced additional cost, rather like a website with alternate layouts, it could make up ground.

Certainly the app gold-rush is well over and freemium games are everywhere now, though I wonder how much money is really being made by them. Enough to advertise them, but I suspect they may be getting desperate.

I have a lot of apps installed on my phone but most of them were either free, cheap, or purchased when the developer slashed its price for a while. Apps have certainly changed from five years ago, probably because with so many of them out there, there is always going to be one which undercuts (or is free with ads) any previously paid for app.

I suspect IAP is ironically what may have killed the app market. Making apps free but charging for additional features or advert removal led to more and more under-cutting in the market. There is an increasing backlash to it with games which promote themselves as having no IAP, as the up-front cost pays for the whole game without any need to pay to continue or make it easier.

We all know that when it says 'FREE' and 'In-app purchases', it probably won't be free unless you are prepared to play for a very long time during which you may be expected to watch a lot of adverts.
PrinceGaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 21:50
Minardi
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midlands
Posts: 502
I've said it before on here, but, I run a Lumia 1020 and I bloody love it.

On another note though, 8.1 is dieing fast and currently WP10 isn't stable enough. I won't be changing yet a while. I don't know what to do really, I have my business set up and running through the microsoft app suite and it works beautifully. I can't face changing at the moment.
Minardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 21:59
stewiegriffin
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 257
Smartphones are all about apps, as I see it.

Apple were first with smartphones
No No No
stewiegriffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 22:08
Everything Goes
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,257
Sadly people have been brain washed by Apple into thinking that is true. Like you say the answer is NO

The first iPhone didn't support apps at all

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06...ars-of-iphone/
Everything Goes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2016, 23:28
PrinceGaz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Posts: 8,175
I'm sorry, but the iPhone was the first mobile device with a full-screen browser to gain serious market share. There were other devices but they were only ever owned by tiny niches.

I could go back fifteen years before to devices like the Psion 3a which had loads of apps available for it but no in-built communication facility.

I know the iPhone didn't natively support apps initially, but it started things going seriously once it did.
PrinceGaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 07:25
daleski75
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Northampton
Posts: 1,014
I doubt MS would follow suit in the literal sense, although they do have cloud packages which compliment Android very well.

Given MS is the only company developing and releasing Windows based handsets, I think any hope of consumer adoption is out the window. I do believe they will be able to leverage it well in enterprise, its a very good open operating system that can support a myriad of different requirements. In that sense it and Android have a lot in common, MS will quitely withdraw from the consumer market, while ramping its up in Enterprise.

Windows Phones are dead as a single issue, yet when thrown in with corporate packages, applications can be made universal and thus require little modification regardless of platform. It scales screensize rather well, Android cannot (apps on tablets look a sack of shit), theres life left in it, just not in the mainstream.
It's a shame really I have owned 2 windows phones and sold them within 6 months each time due to the severe lack of apps and on it's own right it's a good platform but without the apps etc it will never be anything but niche.
daleski75 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 07:52
prking
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Weston-super-Mare
Posts: 9,167
I'm sorry, but the iPhone was the first mobile device with a full-screen browser to gain serious market share. There were other devices but they were only ever owned by tiny niches.

I could go back fifteen years before to devices like the Psion 3a which had loads of apps available for it but no in-built communication facility.

I know the iPhone didn't natively support apps initially, but it started things going seriously once it did.
Again NO. The desire of Apple to rewrite history strikes again.

The iPhone was not the first mobile device with a full screen browser to gain serious market share.
prking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 08:16
Stig
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sandy Heath, Beds. UK
Posts: 10,374
Again NO. The desire of Apple to rewrite history strikes again.

The iPhone was not the first mobile device with a full screen browser to gain serious market share.
This is a Windows Phone thread, not a continuation of the 'I love/hate Apple' thread.

I had several Windows phones, and really liked them. However, in the end there were apps I really needed for work/home which weren't available.
Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 08:43
prking
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Weston-super-Mare
Posts: 9,167
This is a Windows Phone thread, not a continuation of the 'I love/hate Apple' thread.

I had several Windows phones, and really liked them. However, in the end there were apps I really needed for work/home which weren't available.
I agree about the apps. My post is relevant because Windows powered devices (amongst others) offered apps and full screen browsing long before Apple released the iPhone.

In one way it's sad to see Windows mobile/phone dissapear. However, as has been the case for a long time, there will still be handsets running a version of Windows. Who knows perhaps a Surface phone running "desktop" windows?
prking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 08:59
IvanIV
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 25,197
I think some of those consider releasing a universal app for PCs and mobile, some abandon the platform completely. With all the reboots and changes of framework I am not surprised.
IvanIV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 09:14
jonmorris
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a land filled with trolls
Posts: 12,010
Symbian and Palm also had full screen browsing, and apps, long before Apple. Both were dominant players and died, so along with the likely total loss of BBOS I'm favour of Android, I expect Microsoft had little choice but to go down the Android route.

It wouldn't be very painful really as most key apps and services are available for Android, so if people want Android (or indeed iOS) let them buy and just buy or subscribe to MS apps.

I can't see how it can't work, especially if you make sure Android can work nicely with Windows 10 PCs. Android connectivity to OSX is rather primitive, so that's already something in its favour.

I've had / still have some decent WP devices but my 1020 has long been kept purely for the camera and nothing else. And despite how great that was, nothing ever followed it.
jonmorris is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 11:12
TheBigM
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 12,983
There are non Microsoft Windows Mobile handsets out there, Alcatel has released one for example in some markets.

HP is making the Elite X3 as it has been demanded as a solution by its customers.
Microsoft threw in the towel on Windows Phone a long time ago but are keeping a toe in the water because they have to or big Windows will be dragged under too.
TheBigM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 12:46
jonmorris
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: a land filled with trolls
Posts: 12,010
I am not so sure it will. I mean, I like what Microsoft is trying with Continuum, but beyond that there's not really any stand out feature.. and the idea that people using Windows on their PC will buy a phone running Windows hasn't really held true for about 15 years - since the Windows CE/Mobile days.

Then you had Windows 8 supposedly combining looks, so people would have their Windows Phone and love the look - so naturally buy a Windows 8 PC with tiles etc, except they hated Windows 8 (yes, 10 fixes nearly all of the issues) and that probably impacted the other way. Wanting to go back to Win 7 or XP, and seeing a Windows Phone and being massively turned off.

I did lots of contract work for Microsoft and their style guidelines for designing apps (and how you could show apps in print, namely screen captures) showed how limited it was in many cases and there was a great deal of arrogance early on, making many apps look very basic and way behind their iOS counterparts (I don't really include Android for the earliest stuff as that too had issues - except Google worked to fix them).

There's always a chance some miracle could happen, and I always hear the argument that Microsoft has deep pockets and can just sit it out - but after almost ten years with Windows Phone I think someone will decide to call it a day.

Maybe there's another direction Microsoft can go in, but I'm not sure what. Making it more for business probably won't work as people don't want to carry two devices anymore, so a work Windows phone and iPhone for social isn't good. So maybe Microsoft can concentrate on things like tablets, and the Surface range, which could work brilliantly with a desktop PC at work/home - as well as for those who won't even have a separate PC.

It would possibly make more sense to work with Google to allow Windows apps to run on Android in some way.

I don't have all the answers, nor am I paid to, but I am pretty sure 'Windows Phone' is dead. If a company still wants to make hardware, like Alcatel, then so be it. It won't change anything IMO.
jonmorris is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2016, 18:16
swordman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,342
Smartphones are all about apps, as I see it.

Apple were first with smartphones, and then apps, and are still mainly the dominant market when it comes to apps, at least in terms of revenue. They targeted the high-end and won.

Android managed to gain major market-share by selling cheaper devices where Apple were not interested in competing, such that there are enough people with them to make developing Android versions of apps worthwhile. There may be more Android devices out there, but Apple apps still tend to outsell Android apps, because many Android device owners don't even bother with third-party apps.
.
The reality distortion field has done its work here
swordman is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:01.