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iPhone SE launch 21st March
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WelshBluebird
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“Actually, that's certainly not a bad comparison. £21.99 a year for iTunes match as opposed to £120 a year for Apple Music or even Spotify. Pretty big saving.”

Or google play music for free!
JasonWatkins
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by WelshBluebird:
“Or google play music for free!”

Yes, very true

Although I suppose even Spotify is free with ads.

Interesting opinion from Gizmodo on the SE

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/03/app...w-phone-today/
calico_pie
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by Icaraa:
“You don't even need to pay for Apple Music though. I don't, I just pay yearly for iTunes Match and all of my music is on iCloud then. That way I can easily get away with a 16Gb iPhone.”

That doesn't get you new music though, so not much use if someone still wants to get new music.

Obviously people's mileage will vary, but if you typically buy a few albums a month, then the £120 a year option is the big saving.

'Expecting stuff for free' does seem to be a symptom of the internet.
calico_pie
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“Yes, very true

Although I suppose even Spotify is free with ads.

Interesting opinion from Gizmodo on the SE

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/03/app...w-phone-today/”

Seems a little over dramatic if you ask me. It is what it is - an updated 4" iPhone.

To argue that Apple are somehow tricking people because its not a completely brand new, revolutionary device is complete nonsense, as they said no such thing, and no-one for a second even actually thought that anyway.

And even then, we need to believe the the 6S is only a modest improvement over the 5S, which might be stretching the definition of "modest improvement" somewhat.
swordman
22-03-2016
Another land grab device from Apple.

I wonder if these can sell in enough numbers this month to prevent Apple having to declare the first sales drop in the history of the iPhone.

I suppose like the disaster that was the 5c these are just recycled old phones so cheap to produce and knock out to boost sales.
calico_pie
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by swordman:
“Another land grab device from Apple.

I wonder if these can sell in enough numbers this month to prevent Apple having to declare the first sales drop in the history of the iPhone.

I suppose like the disaster that was the 5c these are just recycled old phones so cheap to produce and knock out to boost sales.”

Oh Lord, how can there be so many things wrong in such a short post.

What in hell even is "a land grab device from Apple" anyway? They are still selling shedloads of 4" phones, so they figured there was still a market for them, so they updated that form factor phone with up-to-date specs.

The disaster that was the 5C? Wasn't it something like the 4th or 5th biggest selling phone for the last couple of years? Record breaking? Nope. But hardly a disaster. Good to see you can still only see the world in the black and white of either record breaking or complete disaster.

And seeing as it has virtually the same spec as the 6S other than screen size and resolution (and 3D touch?), its hardly a recycled old phone.

Or if it is, then presumably the new Samsung phone is just a recycled old S5.
jonmorris
22-03-2016
I don't see any problem in having multiple screen sizes. As I've said twice, Sony did the same thing and the only issue is that the Compact phones kept increasing in size, the latest being almost 5-inches, but I suppose as a percentage there's probably some correlation as other devices have gone to 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.5, 5.7 and 6-inches.

Reduce the bezel and you can increase the screen size, and Apple still likes its bezels. I expect that will be the next step for the company - so the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 plus will be smaller for the same screen size, or possibly (but I'd say unlikely) have even larger screens for the same size.

The iPhone 7 SE can then go two ways; reduce the phone size, which I think would make it too small, or up the screen size. Jony Ive might favour the former and have almost no battery at all, but common sense would say the latter - as that form factor seems pretty optimal.

Personally, I could never go back to such a small screen and I think Apple must know from its own research that a lot of people who ridiculed larger screens are now enjoying them, because they took baby steps and gradually went up a screen size with each update and have become used to the larger screens.

Of course, Apple users didn't have those small steps. They had small screens for years then a huge leap. Maybe people didn't take the leap because it was too big, and will stick with the SE. It doesn't necessarily mean people actually prefer a small screen, but are simply used to it.

I'm just not sure how big a market this is. In the long term, I'm sure Apple wants people to step up.
Tallywacker
22-03-2016
This is just what I've been looking for.... a new 4" phone. Problem is, I've only ever had Android in the past. Will the iphone and iOS take a lot of getting used to?

As for the debate on this handset, I do think there are plenty of people like myself who still want a smaller sized smartphone. Apple should be applauded for releasing a newer model of its aging 5s handset. In an ideal world I'd have preferred to stick with Android and get a small Sony or Samsung but the Sony z5 compact and the new Samsung A3 (that's still not released over here) are the 2 smallest phones from those 2 manufacturers but are still much bigger than this new iphone SE.
swordman
22-03-2016
In all fairness hats off to Apple, the ability to simply take an 3 year old case and screen and drop some new innards in is genius. No real interruption of production lines, no design costs etc. The best part is some people will see believe it as a new phone.

Better still it potentially gives carriers the 'brand new' free iphone tag to boost contract sales. Hopefully for Apple just in time.
Stereo Steve
22-03-2016
There is a lot of point missing here. The 7 and 7 Plus (we assume) will deliver to people who like a larger screen. The 6/S/Plus already do. I loved the form factor of my 4S. The screen was never an issue. I didn't spend a lot of time looking at it. Could check twitter, email if I wanted to, navigate and so on and it had a lovely camera too. But no 4G, so I sold it and bought a thin slab thing which I don't like at all. Problem is I can't find a dual SIM phone in a form factor I like. But with VO2 stretching 4G at last into Devon, EE 800 on the way and at a last resort, 3800 with TinT, I won't need a dual SIM phone in the future.

It's about what you want and need from a phone. If you use it a lot all day and need it to arrange meetings, do presentations blah blah, then you maybe need a larger screen. I want to bung it in my pocket and not know it's there until it wither rings or I need to check the bank, pay for my shopping or do Sat Nav. I also want to be able to use it with one hand comfortably.

There is simply no point saying Apple have got it wrong as they will have done a hell of a lot of market research into this. I've already read a couple of reviews praising the return to the classic 4/5 format. If EE allowed wifi calling on PAYG I would pre-order the 64G one today.
calico_pie
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by swordman:
“In all fairness hats off to Apple, the ability to simply take an 3 year old case and screen and drop some new innards in is genius. No real interruption of production lines, no design costs etc. The best part is some people will see believe it as a new phone.

Better still it potentially gives carriers the 'brand new' free iphone tag to boost contract sales. Hopefully for Apple just in time.”

Given that pretty much the entire innards do actually pretty much, to any practical intent, make it a new phone, I'm not sure what your point is.

Is it that you think what a phone looks like is more important than its spec and what it can do?

Not for the firs time, you might be on your own there.

And what do you mean "just in tine for Apple?" anyway? Again, not for the first time, you seem to think that they are on the verge of financial ruin.

Given the sorts of things you were saying about Apple and the 5C a few years ago, you must be surprised they haven't gone bust by now.
swordman
22-03-2016
What is interesting is Apple now describe this phone as 'small'. It is odd how the perfect size for a phone can suddenly become small in such a short space of time.
finbaar
22-03-2016
If the 5C concept was a success (in Apple terms, I am sure Sony would have been doing cartwheels to sell half as many) then Apple would have continued it. I think the problem for the 5C is that is flagged itself as the "cheap" iPhone.

Anyway, I wonder Apple didn't include force touch in the SE (is it the 5SE or the 7SE or just the SE by the way). It seems a bit perverse not to include it.
Aye Up
22-03-2016
Personally I see Apple retaining a smaller form factor to be a good thing, it offers 3 different product options at 3 different price points. The 5/5S was a good phone, it slipped into the pocket nicely not realising it was there. My other half has already moved on to the Galaxy Note 3 by the time I upgraded to the 5S, the screen size being the major discrepancy.

Its another option, which can't be a bad thing. Had I not upgraded to the S7 recently then this would have been a phone I would have happily considered, primarily down to its form factor.

Its not a bad phone, its not a great phone, a bit like ronseal to be honest.
linkinpark875
22-03-2016
Had this been in a 6S case it would have been a decent phone.

I liked the 5S design however I couldn't go back to this form factor. It's very un Apple like to release an old design. What next IPad 2 with a speed bump?

The biggest shock is price SE is very cheap makes the 5S look very expensive. Makes IPad Pro look crazy priced given the 64gb one was £479. £499 has priced many out of an IPad.
calico_pie
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by swordman:
“What is interesting is Apple now describe this phone as 'small'. It is odd how the perfect size for a phone can suddenly become small in such a short space of time.”

You seem to be taking everything too literally as usual.
jonmorris
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by linkinpark875:
“Had this been in a 6S case it would have been a decent phone.

I liked the 5S design however I couldn't go back to this form factor. It's very un Apple like to release an old design. What next IPad 2 with a speed bump?

The biggest shock is price SE is very cheap makes the 5S look very expensive. Makes IPad Pro look crazy priced given the 64gb one was £479. £499 has priced many out of an IPad.”

If sales are beginning to fall (they have to be, as sales of tablets and smartphones are slowing everywhere as people aren't upgrading as often as they did) then I guess you increase margins for those that will still upgrade often.

Not every company can enjoy such luxuries.

Apple could stop supporting older phones quicker, to force people to upgrade. I wonder what was meant by the attack on people who dare to use old PCs? I kept my iMac for five years before getting the Retina model, and my MacBook Air is from 2011.

Should I be upgrading that? The battery is starting to play up, so maybe I'll have to, but phones and tablets are much like computers now - or TVs. If it works, why change it?
calico_pie
22-03-2016
An attack? Weren't they just making the point that that's an awful lot of people who may well want to upgrade their computer or tablet reasonably soon, and so be a potential customer in the next year or two?

For what its worth, we upgraded our MBP from 2008 last year, and I've just upgraded my late 09 iMac. Got £490 for it which was pretty good for a six year old machine.

I do think the upgrade cycle of tablets is going to be far greater than that of phones though - tablets are great for casual consumption as much as anything - so as you say if it works, its going to be good for that for a good few years. As far as I can tell that's probably the main reason iPad sales slowed right down. Seems pretty obvious except to all the media wanging on about how its a sign that Apple are doomed (again). The new iPad looks pretty good though - will be interesting to see if its enough of a carrot to see an uptick in sales in the next year or so,
Stereo Steve
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by linkinpark875:
“Had this been in a 6S case it would have been a decent phone.

I liked the 5S design however I couldn't go back to this form factor. It's very un Apple like to release an old design. What next IPad 2 with a speed bump?

The biggest shock is price SE is very cheap makes the 5S look very expensive. Makes IPad Pro look crazy priced given the 64gb one was £479. £499 has priced many out of an IPad.”

If it was in a 6S case it would pretty much be a...........6S. No?

It's a different product. If you don't want a small phone then fine, don't buy it. Many people do. Putting 90% of the qualities of a 6S in a 5S case is desirable for many people. Apple will certainly not have fired this out as 'something to do' without researching the market.

There are loads of people who are a little uncomfortable with phones getting bigger and bigger. I think it's a winner. Good phone, good price.
jonmorris
22-03-2016
Attack might not have been the best work. Maybe the word 'dig' would have been more appropriate.

I think the two things that would make me upgrade by MBA are going to be down to Apple.

1) The battery dies and the cost/hassle of replacing it makes me decide to spend the money on a new machine and perhaps sell the old one, which won't get as much money as my older MacBooks that had changeable batteries.

2) They stop supporting it with OS updates, so I get 'left behind'.

I suppose I might also drop it, or it gets stolen.
swordman
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by finbaar:
“If the 5C concept was a success (in Apple terms, I am sure Sony would have been doing cartwheels to sell half as many) then Apple would have continued it. I think the problem for the 5C is that is flagged itself as the "cheap" iPhone.

Anyway, I wonder Apple didn't include force touch in the SE (is it the 5SE or the 7SE or just the SE by the way). It seems a bit perverse not to include it.”

I assume they would be unable to recycle the old screen tech if they wanted to include it. This is the new 5c so built to a 'gather market share' budget, with the recycled parts branded as new.
swordman
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“You seem to be taking everything too literally as usual.”

What a bizarre response.

I am literally quoting Apple
Quote:
“"A big step for small"
The result is an iPhone that looks small. But lives large”

Icaraa
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by swordman:
“I suppose like the disaster that was the 5c these are just recycled old phones so cheap to produce and knock out to boost sales.”

iPhone 5c was only a sales disaster in America. Everywhere else it sold very well.
calico_pie
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by swordman:
“ What a bizarre response.

I am literally quoting Apple”

So what does that have to do with:

"It is odd how the perfect size for a phone can suddenly become small in such a short space of time."

What, exactly, is the issue or problem or point?
calico_pie
22-03-2016
Originally Posted by swordman:
“I assume they would be unable to recycle the old screen tech if they wanted to include it. This is the new 5c so built to a 'gather market share' budget, with the recycled parts branded as new.”

I'm not sure what the problem is here. Lots of people seem to love the design of the 4/4S/5/5S more than the 6/6S, and the 5S has continued to sell tens of millions of units a year.

They simply appear to be catering to the demand for a smaller phone in a popular design - so what's with all the cynicism and criticism? Is it just that you are not happy unless you're whining on about Apple.

Is Alan still around? I'm sure he might have some even more outlandish theories as to what its all really about.
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