But what would a Surface 3 not be able to do in that case? For casual consumption around the house a Surface can do everything the iPad can do plus features like the built in kickstand, easy storage expansion with micro SD card and the ability to have separate user accounts so each family member can share the machine without being able to read each others emails etc, and to have parental controls on childrens accounts, are extra bonus features. Yet the machine costs less.

I can say my Windows tablet does everything I need around the house. What makes the iPad worth spending more money on?

Spot on. I have 2 iPads because they are perfect for consumption. I don't want a Windows tablet that can have a mouse connected to it and a keyboard and run desktop applications. I have no interest in doing any work on a tablet. If I want to get any work done I'll fire up my MacBook Air.

All of this can be done with an iPad. You can connect it to a TV using the right cable. Secondly you can even do it wirelessly using somethings such as air play and an Apple TV.

It runs iOS which is my preference. It integrates with all my other Apple devices. I don't own any Windows devices so a Windows tablet will not integrate with anything. I buy a lot of content from iTunes like movies and videos all of this is available on my iPad. I use iCloud Photo Library so all of my photos are available on my iPad. It has some games/apps which are not available on android or Windows. It has excellent build quality. Apple have excellent after sales customer support and it will be updated with new software for years to come.

Then there are aesthetic reasons. I like the way it looks and feels in the hand. It has a higher resolution display than a cheaper Windows tablet would do.

I can get it in up to 256GB of internal storage. I prefer internal storage over SD card slots.

These are reasons why I have paid more for an iPad rather than buying a cheaper Windows or android tablet. However my needs are not the same as other people's.

But you need an adaptor as well as a HDMI cable. And the iPad can only mirror its display. With Windows you can play a movie on the big screen and surf the net or check your email on the tablet screen or vice versa. And the wireless is the same as Miracast, except again it can extend, not just mirror, the display.

Since the integration is a good feature would you agree that for someone who has a PC a Windows tablet would be a better buy than an iPad?

Expanding the storage with micro SD has a couple of big advantages. It's far cheaper and if you drop or brick the tablet you just remove the SD card and all your files, photos etc are safe and sound even if you haven't backed them up online.

And Windows 10 will be updated forever according to Microsoft. In fact the thing people are complaining about is that MS are insisting on updating machines!

If I thought the things you listed were important, I would not buy a surface pro. I would buy a laptop.

The surface pro is either a low powered laptop, or a heavy tablet which lacks apps and has an OS which is not conducive to running a tablet despite what you say.

If you use AirPlay it doesn't have to mirror what's on the screen you can play something on the TV and do anything else you want to do with the iPad.

And yes you do need an adapter but it's still possible. You make it sound as though these things just can't be done with an iPad.

One thing that's rarely mentioned in these comparisons is battery life. I'm not talking about usability time - it may that the Windows tablet/Surface gets 10hours straight use, I really don't know.

No, I'm talking about standby time. With an iPad, that can be measured in weeks, meaning it's rarely 'flat, needing charged' when picked up. I've yet to come across a Windows machine, tablet or otherwise, that doesn't drain it's battery over a couple of days of standby (and no, hibernation doesn't count). This is a deal breaker for me. It means never having to cold boot the iPad, other than for OS updates. It means the device is *always* ready for me, even if I'm careless about charging.

The iPad is limited to either mirroring or playing movies or photos, right? Can you have say Excel on the big screen and the internet on the tablet display? Or Powerpoint on the external screen and Word on the tablet? Or Photoshop full image on the external display and the zoomed in working area on the tablet touch display? Or just extending the desktop across both displays as a true dual monitor PC?

I've never thought about that. I use mine every day so it's never come up. In Sleep stuff still goes on in the background, like wifi, synch etc so it will use some power. You can go to settings and turn that off.

Or why not use hibernate? If you haven't used your machine for days then waiting fifteen seconds to boot up, and have all your open apps, programs, web pages etc exactly where you left them, isn't a big deal. I've gone to my old Surface after months and still had a full charge available. You can even tell the machine to go into hibernation after a certain number of hours or days so it will automatically do so if you forget.

how many people actually want to do that though?

you seem to be missing a key point. the product you own sounds like it suits your needs, requirements and likes, whilst different products appear to suit the needs, requirements and likes of others

if i want to work on a spreadsheet or photoshop or powerpoint, i must be having a strange day for a start. however at times i may need to use those things so i'll do it on a desktop. if i want to bore anyone to tears then i'll play the powerpoint on a laptop

tablets can do a number of things of course, but typically people will buy desktops for certain reasons, buy laptops for certain reasons, and tablets for certain reasons. there are a number of things my desktops can do that my laptop can do, such as store many hardrives internally plus let me connect more devices externally. my desktops run windows primarily, and run osx, linux, windows and android via virtual machines

my desktops aren't great for taking with me on trips or using on the bus or walking about though

my laptops however can be taken with me in my bag and used on the bus or plane and do many things the desktops can do, including run different OS's in VM's, but the most internal storage i have is 3 x 2tb HDD's plus a 256gb SDXC card in one slot and a few 128gb tiny usb drives. i can output to external monitors or projectors and connect a number of devices

my laptops aren't great for reading on the bus in one hand or walking about though

my tablets can be carried about and used quiet easily without any muscle strain. personally i use my tablets mainly for browsing, reading ebooks and a bit of remote desktop. i can look at spreadsheets and work documents and powerpoint if i wanted to, but i don't usually want to work on one with a touch screen, or even with a keyboard plugged in or wireless. i can connect them to projectors and monitors if i want to, but generally i don't want to as i have a number of other computers that are already connected in such a way

personally whilst i have both an ipad (my second one) and a windows 10 tablet, i prefer the ipad for everyday use as IOS has been created from the start to use on mobile touch screens and has nearly 10 years of development, and i've used it since getting the first iphone, through a few other iphones, the first ipad, and my current ipad. i got the first iphone as there was no other phone anywhere near like it in capability terms when it first came out, and in each upgrade i considered the alternatives and there was nothing i considered notably different or better to justify moving from IOS and leaving my apps behind. likewise when ipad came out there was nothing like it in terms of usability and price and it ran my existing phone apps, and when i wanted to upgrade i again considered alternatives and just like with my iphone upgrades i prefered ipad

the idea of having the same programs run on windows on my desktop, laptop, tablet and phone is completely fantastic in principle, but in real terms it's far from it. windows isn't as slick on tablet as IOS. you can't just run any program properly on a windows based phone either. of course i can't run windows programs on my ipad or iphone, what i can do is run them via remote access from another computer, but that's not always great. so i use the windows tablet to run windows stuff

as to what is the best option per person just depends on what they want to do. if you don't want to do powerpoint and excel and connect to other monitors and you just want to browse, play videos and read things then an ipad or even android tablet may be better than windows

one thing IOS is better at is running music apps on portable devices that integrate with hardware. there is music based hardware such as instruments that allow iphones or ipads to be connected - that don't connect to windows or osx. there are a number of IOS specific music apps that you can't get on other formats, many of them are pretty good and used by professionals in performance and recording

comparing an ipad to a windows tablet is more like comparing an armchair to a sofa. you can sit on both, one can hold more people or let you sleep lying down, but the other is easier to move and put in smaller places. they are two different things, with some shared features, but aimed at different buyers

i think windows has a way to go before it works as nicely on tablets and phones as IOS. i think by the time it gets that way that IOS and OSX may integrate more closely, so for example OSX having the ability to have an IOS style front end to run on tablets and IOS being able to run more OSX apps. perhaps android and linux may move that way too in time

but if people have already bought their devices, what's the point of asking umpteen questions about what they've bought? you can't turn back time. what you like and think is better or not may be different to the person you are asking

Isn't that the point of these forums? Are they not discussion forums? Many people say iOS is "better" yet seem unable to explain why. Multitasking got a huge welcome when announced yet before that when Windows tablets could do that iPad users dismissed it. Same with iPhone users for years dismissing bigger rivals saying the iPhone was the perfect size. Until Apple announced the bigger iPhone when suddenly they thought that was a fantastic feature.
It seems many people buy an iPad because it's an iPad, and then try to justify it against other tablets. Anything an iPad can't do that rivals can is dismissed while anything an iPad has that it's rivals lack is touted as a huge advantage, with the goalposts being moved every time something moves from a pro to a con.
This has been going on for years. In the early days of the Mac for example its modest software compared to Windows was dismissed as irrelevant. But now the iPhone has more software than its rivals that is now a huge advantage. Multitasking was irrelevant when the iPad didn't have it, a great feature now it has. There was a buzz that user accounts would be introduced alongside multitasking, and had it done so that would have been welcomed as a great feature. Because it didn't appear it is still dismissed as unimportant.

With the iPhone it has been behind its rivals from within two or three years of it's launch in a wide range of areas and playing catchup all the time. For several years the iPhone couldn't copy'n'paste, a vary basic feature. You couldn't attach files in an email reply. And it still lacks widgets which makes Android far easier to use. For how many years did the clock and weather icons say ten past ten and 73 and sunny while on Android the clock and weather widgets would actually tell you the time and weather? To this day setting a song as your ringtone means either paying Apple for the ringtone of a song you already have on your phone or a five minute long workaround with your computer. On Android and Windows phone you can set any song as a ringtone in seconds. (Windows Phone is still behind Android in many ways. On my Android phone for example I can turn on wifi hotspot with a single tap on my home screen. On my Windows phone it takes two presses, and a third to get back to the home screen.)

Today Windows tablets are dismissed as "I don't need those features. I just use it to surf the net and watch videos" yet when asked why a Windows tablet can't do the same they can't say. Integration is touted as a huge benefit yet Windows tablets actually run the exact same OS as a PC and synch all the settings and files you choose. How more integrated can you get?

I guarantee that if Apple announced the ability to run iOS apps on a Mac, Mac programs on an iPad or add user accounts to the iPad, or a micro SD card slot, they will be welcomed as a fantastic benefit.
But because they don't have that today and Windows tablets do they're dismissed as worthless or "not something I'd use".

There must be some reason why people keep buying iPads despite the many features it lacks. I've used them and can't see it. I'd really love to know. If you already have lots of paid apps in the iOS store then that is a good reason to stay with the iPad, though not exactly huge praise of the machine. "I keep buying them because I'm stuck with them"

This thread, about a "Pro" machine that can't run industry standard pro software and can't even have a mouse or touchpad, makes me really want to know why so many people rush out to buy one. Many people reject the many features a Windows tablet has by saying "I just use it to surf the net and watch videos". So why spend £500 on a "Pro" machine if that's all you are going to use it for?

Again, isn't this what discussion forums are for?

But you are doing the same in reverse. You seem to love the Surface Pro but if anyone thinks it is underpowered when compared to laptops (as many reviews say) then you go defensive. Also it's an tablet add-on to a basically non-tablet OS so it would be surprising if it turned out to give the best tablet user experience!

On paper many tablets would seem to rival the iPad - and many phones would seem to rival the iPhone. In practice they are so well made and work so well and intuitively they have a massive following.

You use the rather cheap shot of Apple being supposed to keep to the same size of iPhone for ever more just from what Steve Jobs said many years ago! Also the same week Apple has brought out an updated 4-inch model.

You've missed my point.

I'm not arguing that an iPad is objectively better than a Surface, or able to do more things than a Surface.

I'm just arguing that a Surface isn't necessarily going to be better for everyone just because, in some use case scenarios, it will have some advantages for some people.

For example, none of the things you find useful make any difference to our usage. Which is mostly news apps, games, YouTube, Vevo, photos, health & fitness apps.

But an iPad suits us best because we also have other Apple devices.

It may not be as much of an issue as it was when we got an iPad in 2012, but back then it was definitely the case that there were more, and better optimised for tablets, apps available for the iPad. Even now (but I'll stand corrected) most of Adobe's mobile apps are iOS only, or iOS first, which are ones I use).

For one I have said in threads on DS praising my Linx that you're not going to get a lot of 4K video editing done, or play a top end FPS game at max settings, so I don't get defensive when it comes to raw power. What I do say is that even the £150 Linx has enough power to do everything anyone would want in a tablet. I can play two full 1080p videos side by side at the same time perfectly. What advantage would more processor power give? Some people seem to be saying they don't need all the extra features of a Surface because they only surf the net and watch some movies but then praise the iPad for having such a powerful processor.

Windows 10 in tablet mode is a fantastic tablet UI. The touch and swipe gestures are fast and natural and in areas like multitasking it took iOS three years to catch up to Windows. It has still to catch up with features like user accounts, mouse support (they offer a keyboard but no mouse or trackpad?), virtual desktops and so on.

Where did I criticise Apple for only making one screen size iPhone? I criticised the users for being adamant that four inches was perfect and mocking the bigger phones from rivals, right until Apple launched the bigger iPhone when they suddenly rushed out and bought it. I guess four inches wasn't so perfect after all.

Would you agree that if someone has a PC then a Windows tablet would suit them better because of its integration?

Just to add that I am being criticised for criticising the iPad, in a thread started by a poster criticisng the iPad for being a lot more expensive for very little benefit. I'd say I'm pretty well on topic.

It very possibly would - I don't think anyone has ever argued otherwise.

The thread is about it being more expensive than previous generation iPads not being more expensive than cheap Windows tablets.

This is something that seems ridiculous - the way some people hold Apple to account for things Jobs said years ago.

The thing with the stylus / Apple pencil is particularly ridiculous. Jobs basically said that people didn't want to use a stylus on a small screen like modern smartphones for normal typing.

Many have since accused Apple of a double standard and hypocrisy because of the Apple Pencil, even though its clearly designed for a completely different use case scenario - i.e. graphic artists using a much larger screen to create. Completely different to what Jobs was talking about regarding using a stylus.

And even the larger phones - I still think he was right insomuch as once you get to the larger phones available now, they become awkward to use with one hand. For me, the 6S would be as big as I would like, and even then would take some getting used to. But the 6S+ is just ridiculous IMO. But if others like larger phones then great - they have the choice.

But the way some will go on and on about Apple being hypocrites, as though no-one can ever change their mind about anything ever is ridiculous.

isn't what the point of these forums?

as far as i'm aware the point of the forums is to make money as he website is a commercial business. what do you think the point of the forums is?


so what? it doesn't matter. why do you care?


you still don't get it do you?

firstly this post is about the price of a certain product compared to another certain product

secondly some people like different things to you


what are discussion forums for? you haven't said it

the answer is simple. different forums are there for different reasons. this is a commercial website so it would appear these forums are to make a profit for the shareholders

what does this have to do with the topic which is the price of apple tablets?

btw the bit in bold is simply your opinion. not a fact. i and others disagree. that's why some people buy different products to you and prefer them. i have a linx too. i prefer the ipad. do you have an ipad to make daily real life comparisons? do you have an apple computer to make daily real life comparisons to non apple computers?

if not, then you perhaps aren't the best person to discuss such things. and if you do want to discuss such things then this perhaps isn't the right thread as it's about discussing the price of products

not at all

it sounds like you have been spending more time typing than reading on this post. different people find different products more suitable to their person needs

i'd disagree

do you see now that people have different opinions?