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iPad Pro £100 more expensive than Air 2
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zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“This is something that seems ridiculous - the way some people hold Apple to account for things Jobs said years ago.

The thing with the stylus / Apple pencil is particularly ridiculous. Jobs basically said that people didn't want to use a stylus on a small screen like modern smartphones for normal typing.

Many have since accused Apple of a double standard and hypocrisy because of the Apple Pencil, even though its clearly designed for a completely different use case scenario - i.e. graphic artists using a much larger screen to create. Completely different to what Jobs was talking about regarding using a stylus.

And even the larger phones - I still think he was right insomuch as once you get to the larger phones available now, they become awkward to use with one hand. For me, the 6S would be as big as I would like, and even then would take some getting used to. But the 6S+ is just ridiculous IMO. But if others like larger phones then great - they have the choice.

But the way some will go on and on about Apple being hypocrites, as though no-one can ever change their mind about anything ever is ridiculous.”

I agree. I've never criticised Apple for adding a stylus. Having has an early Palm PDA I think it is clear Jobs was referring to machines where you had to use the stylus, which would be a real PITA for the way we use phones today. Adding stylus functionality for those that want it, and where for serious artwork it is clearly far better, is a sound decision and I doubt Jobs today would have refused to do it.
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“what does this have to do with the topic which is the price of apple tablets?”

From the third post on posters are discussing features and specs. How can you judge value without considering what a machine does?
Quote:
“btw the bit in bold is simply your opinion. not a fact. i and others disagree. that's why some people buy different products to you and prefer them. i have a linx too. i prefer the ipad. do you have an ipad to make daily real life comparisons? do you have an apple computer to make daily real life comparisons to non apple computers?”

And many people state the iPad is better. Isn't that only an opinion?
Quote:
“if not, then you perhaps aren't the best person to discuss such things. and if you do want to discuss such things then this perhaps isn't the right thread as it's about discussing the price of products”

Are you going to tell that to all the other people discussing features and specs?
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“not at all

it sounds like you have been spending more time typing than reading on this post. different people find different products more suitable to their person needs”

It's interesting that very few seem to be able to actually identify any specific feature that makes it more suited to their needs. I have listed many specific, factual, advantages to Windows tablets, things it can do that iPads can't yet apart from already commited to Apple app store and connectivity to other Apple products no one seems to be able to state any specific feature the iPad has that makes it better.
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“i'd disagree

do you see now that people have different opinions?”

Others have stated that the iPad is "better" and that the interface is "better". When I say the Windows UI is better I'm suddenly criticised for "stating opinion as fact".
kidspud
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“It's interesting that very few seem to be able to actually identify any specific feature that makes it more suited to their needs. I have listed many specific, factual, advantages to Windows tablets, things it can do that iPads can't yet apart from already commited to Apple app store and connectivity to other Apple products no one seems to be able to state any specific feature the iPad has that makes it better.”

UI, apps, weight, battery.
unique
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“From the third post on posters are discussing features and specs. How can you judge value without considering what a machine does?”

i'm no psychologist so i can't explain why, but people do

the people were discussing why the items referred to in the OP were the prices they were. the thread is discussing pricing of specific items

Quote:
“


And many people state the iPad is better. Isn't that only an opinion?”

of course

Quote:
“]



Are you going to tell that to all the other people discussing features and specs?”

no
unique
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“It's interesting that very few seem to be able to actually identify any specific feature that makes it more suited to their needs. I have listed many specific, factual, advantages to Windows tablets, things it can do that iPads can't yet apart from already commited to Apple app store and connectivity to other Apple products no one seems to be able to state any specific feature the iPad has that makes it better.”

so what? why are so you interested in other peoples choices to buy products you don't want to buy? there are a huge number of reasons why people buy certain things
unique
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“Others have stated that the iPad is "better" and that the interface is "better". When I say the Windows UI is better I'm suddenly criticised for "stating opinion as fact".”

you are wrong. you've misread or misunderstood
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“you are wrong. you've misread or misunderstood”

Like post #80 where better UI is stated as fact?
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“UI, apps, weight, battery.”

Better UI is opinion not fact. Better apps is hardly a pro when Windows tablets can run all, full spec, Windows PC software perfectly. Why settle for cut down apps when you can run full programs? Weight? Not really. Battery? A valid point in many cases. I'd suggest that higher power consumption is a reasonable and acceptable trade off for having a full OS and being able to run desktop programs. A Ferrari will have poorer fuel consumption than a Fiat.
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“so what? why are so you interested in other peoples choices to buy products you don't want to buy? there are a huge number of reasons why people buy certain things”

Why are people so interested in my opinions? If it so unimportant to you then why reply? The fact that people are so adamant to refute my comments suggests they are just as invested in supporting their choice.
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“i'm no psychologist so i can't explain why, but people do

the people were discussing why the items referred to in the OP were the prices they were. the thread is discussing pricing of specific items”

And since people were complaining about the cost of a device I suggested another device that can do a lot more for less money. How is that wrong?

It seems that Apple owners are happy to complain about the cost of an Apple product but suggest another alternative and they react like you've suggested selling their children for medical research.
Quote:
“
no”

Quite.
kidspud
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“Better UI is opinion not fact. Better apps is hardly a pro when Windows tablets can run all, full spec, Windows PC software perfectly. Why settle for cut down apps when you can run full programs? Weight? Not really. Battery? A valid point in many cases. I'd suggest that higher power consumption is a reasonable and acceptable trade off for having a full OS and being able to run desktop programs. A Ferrari will have poorer fuel consumption than a Fiat.”

I've listed the benefits of a tablet which is what the iPad is.

I agree with you that the surface pro pretends to be a PCs, which is why I've always said that that you would be better offer buying a proper laptop.
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“I've listed the benefits of a tablet which is what the iPad is.

I agree with you that the surface pro pretends to be a PCs, which is why I've always said that that you would be better offer buying a proper laptop.”

But I'm trying to find out exactly why you consider the iPad a better tablet. If you'd never heard of the Surface and I gave you one, without a keyboard and in its tablet UI, what exactly would make you think it wasn't as good a tablet as the iPad? What is it lacking?

Having had three Android phones and just got a Windows phone I can understand an unfamiliar UI can take time to get used to, but that is not the same as saying it is not as good. Someone who had only ever had a Windows phone would find it just as unfamiliar getting an Android or iPhone.

I can, for example, give specific examples of where I consider the Windows phone I have (still on 8.1) to be not as good as my Android phone. On Android I have a widget on the home screen for wifi hotspot, since that is something I use frequently. The widget tells me whether the hotspot is on or not and a single tap turns it on or off. On Windows phone I can't do that. I can have a hotspot live tile but tapping it opens the hotspot settings page where I have to tap On then tap home to get back to the main screen. Three taps instead of one. But it is a small detail and not exactly a hardship.

So if I gave you a Surface what exactly would you consider it was lacking as a tablet? Lots of people buy Surfaces but not the keyboard and only ever use it as a tablet. So what are they missing out on by not getting an iPad?
unique
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“Like post #80 where better UI is stated as fact?”

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...1&postcount=80

I concur. you are wrong. you've definitely misread or misunderstood
unique
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“Why are people so interested in my opinions? If it so unimportant to you then why reply? The fact that people are so adamant to refute my comments suggests they are just as invested in supporting their choice.”

nonsense. the reasons people don't reply will vary person to person and per situation
unique
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“And since people were complaining about the cost of a device I suggested another device that can do a lot more for less money. How is that wrong?

It seems that Apple owners are happy to complain about the cost of an Apple product but suggest another alternative and they react like you've suggested selling their children for medical research.
Quite.”

the OP is about prices on specific products. nothing else

you wouldn't go on a coronation street thread and ask people why they are watching coronation street and suggest they watch eastenders would you?

people aren't generally stupid. they know there are alternate products from other manufacturers and would perhaps look into it or ask if that interested them
unique
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“But I'm trying to find out exactly why you consider the iPad a better tablet. If you'd never heard of the Surface and I gave you one, without a keyboard and in its tablet UI, what exactly would make you think it wasn't as good a tablet as the iPad? What is it lacking?

Having had three Android phones and just got a Windows phone I can understand an unfamiliar UI can take time to get used to, but that is not the same as saying it is not as good. Someone who had only ever had a Windows phone would find it just as unfamiliar getting an Android or iPhone.

I can, for example, give specific examples of where I consider the Windows phone I have (still on 8.1) to be not as good as my Android phone. On Android I have a widget on the home screen for wifi hotspot, since that is something I use frequently. The widget tells me whether the hotspot is on or not and a single tap turns it on or off. On Windows phone I can't do that. I can have a hotspot live tile but tapping it opens the hotspot settings page where I have to tap On then tap home to get back to the main screen. Three taps instead of one. But it is a small detail and not exactly a hardship.

So if I gave you a Surface what exactly would you consider it was lacking as a tablet? Lots of people buy Surfaces but not the keyboard and only ever use it as a tablet. So what are they missing out on by not getting an iPad?”

why do you care why someone likes something so much?

if people wanted to tell you they would consider answering. I wouldn't tell you just because of the way you word your posts
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“why do you care why someone likes something so much?

if people wanted to tell you they would consider answering. I wouldn't tell you just because of the way you word your posts”

It's interesting that so many people post to disagree with me. Why do they care? Why is it strange for me to advocate one tablet but perfectly reasonable for others to argue in favour of another tablet?

This is a discussion forum. Someone commented that they thought a product was overpriced, I suggested an alternative that is much better value. I don't complain when someone goes into a Windows or Android thread and recommends an iPad. If they can say why it would do a better job then why not?
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...1&postcount=80

I concur. you are wrong. you've definitely misread or misunderstood”

I asked for specific factual features that were better on the iPad. Someone answered "UI"

When I said the Windows UI was better I was told that was opinion, not fact.

So why is stating that the iPad UI is better considered a fact?
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“the OP is about prices on specific products. nothing else

you wouldn't go on a coronation street thread and ask people why they are watching coronation street and suggest they watch eastenders would you?

people aren't generally stupid. they know there are alternate products from other manufacturers and would perhaps look into it or ask if that interested them”

That is very interesting wording. It suggests that many people would but a product without looking into alternatives. You'd spend £600 on a tablet without even considering other tablets?

I love all three Android phones I've had, all HTC. But every time I got a new one I looked into lots of others, compared features, read reviews and so on. Who would buy something like that without considering what is available? How do they know there might not be something that would suit them far better?
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“the OP is about prices on specific products. nothing else

you wouldn't go on a coronation street thread and ask people why they are watching coronation street and suggest they watch eastenders would you?

people aren't generally stupid. they know there are alternate products from other manufacturers and would perhaps look into it or ask if that interested them”

A poster when into a Windows tablets & phones titled thread and recommended Apple iOS, in a reply to me actually.

No one complained or told him to go away. It was a perfectly reasonable comment suggesting an alternative and, given the iOS walled garden, probably quite valid.

So if someone can go into a Windows thread and recommend Apple why can't I comment in an iPad thread and suggest a Windows tablet, and give factual reasons for recommending them?
zz9
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by unique:
“why do you care why someone likes something so much?

if people wanted to tell you they would consider answering. I wouldn't tell you just because of the way you word your posts”

Again, why do you care that I like Windows tablets? Why is it "okay" for you to recommend and defend iPads but my recommending a Windows tablet is some bizarre freakish behaviour?
Anika Hanson
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“It's interesting that so many people post to disagree with me. Why do they care? Why is it strange for me to advocate one tablet but perfectly reasonable for others to argue in favour of another tablet?

This is a discussion forum. Someone commented that they thought a product was overpriced, I suggested an alternative that is much better value. I don't complain when someone goes into a Windows or Android thread and recommends an iPad. If they can say why it would do a better job then why not?”

Much better value to you. It's not better value to me. I don't want a cheap Windows tablet.
Anika Hanson
28-03-2016
Originally Posted by zz9:
“That is very interesting wording. It suggests that many people would but a product without looking into alternatives. You'd spend £600 on a tablet without even considering other tablets?

I love all three Android phones I've had, all HTC. But every time I got a new one I looked into lots of others, compared features, read reviews and so on. Who would buy something like that without considering what is available? How do they know there might not be something that would suit them far better?”

I'm glad that the LUNIX 10 works for you and I'm sure that it works well for other people too. However we are not stupid. We haven't missed out on the bargain of the century. We are aware of the bargain basement tablets out there but we have decided that it doesn't meet our requirements which is why we opted to spend more and buy an iPad.
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