The whole Mike Yates betrayal and redemption is an under-valued storyline I think. I don't think the Doctor has ever been betrayed by a (kind of) companion before, even the one that was supposed to betray him (Turlough). It's definitely worthy of more attention than it gets. It's pretty well handled too, although it would be handled far more melodramatically nowadays.

Certainly, that is a very good triumvirate of stories: The Green Death, Invasion of the Dinosaurs and (slightly lesser) Planet of the Spiders.

Delta and the Bannermen gets a lot of hate from fans but I always found it enjoyable.

Sorry to snip a lot of your post Tom but I'm catching up on the audios and listened to the Mythmakers on audio on Friday so it was really interesting to read your post. You are right that it is a sophisticated story and it really works because it is all about the characters, their ambitions, actions, jealousies.
The Girl who died did play to the broadest interpretation of the Vikings and its a shame there wasn't more time spent on Ashilde and the village people but I did like what we saw of Ashilde and the Doctor in the Woman who Lived which was quite a talky episode.

I'm also quite a fan of this one. The scripts and direction really is very good. It's like a live action Doctor Who comic book and is very well executed if you think of it in those terms. The general objection to it I think is that it is not what a Doctor Who serial ought to be, and if all of Doctor Who was like then I would agree, but in its own right it's enjoyable and well executed. I like them to do something very different tonally or aesthetically with the odd story here and there. As someone who read the old Doctor Who Weekly / Monthly comic back in the 80s it's very easy to liken it to old Dave Gibbons strips.

It has very nice costumes and visual design too.

I guess for me I just found it rather...dull. Padded, even. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved the deeper exploration of character going on. It was at this point that I felt Moffat turned things around a bit and wrote some more intriguing character stuff for one of the first times - Matt Smith was truly done a disservice on that front. I loved Capaldi almost immediately, far quicker than I liked either Tennant or Smith before him. I loved Clara, and I'd been liking her a lot more since the 50th anniversary. The villain was an intriguing but not overplayed callback to the robots from The Girl in the Fireplace, the cameo from Missy held a sense of ongoing intrigue to it, and the supporting cast were decent enough.

But the sum of all these parts was significantly less impressive, and as a whole the episode felt rather lacking. The Paternoster Gang were as decent as ever, and the point seemed they were a familiar face whilst we got acquainted with a new Doctor, but they never felt as sufficiently relevant as other characters (Jackie, Wilf) who had fulfilled a similar role before, even if they were a bit more interesting than typical companion relatives in the suburbs. More to the point, as much as they're painted to be crucial allies they have subsequently not appeared again in Series 8, or Series 9 at all. Whilst I can't admit to actually missing them (telling of how impactful they are, maybe?) I equally feel retrospectively that the huge role they play here is one of convenience. They're in the story because it's convenient in a world which revolves around the Doctor - rather than because they've been sufficiently woven into the ongoing story. Also, with The Snowmen, The Crimson Horror and to an extent The Name of the Doctor also carrying the distinctly Victorian London vibe their inclusion worked against the concept of 'something new'.

The episode had other problems along the way too. Pacing-wise it just doesn't know what to do with itself. In the end it feels like a typical 45 minute plot padded with the admittedly good character work. Unfortunately Moffat isn't able to always sufficiently mesh the two together.
And in terms of convenience again, the giant dinosaur defies logic in so many ways. It's for the sake of a few "cool" shots despite the huge scientific inaccuracy. And whilst Dinosaurs on a Spaceship also took liberties with the dinosaur accuracy, it managed to actually depict a T-Rex at a more appropriate size. More frustrating than all of this is just how obnoxious the script is about it though - going so far as to address the inaccuracy and to just write it off because it can. It was the lazy, style over substance writing Moffat was guilty of in much of Series 6 and Series 7, and seemed to carry over here a bit too.

It wasn't a horrendous episode by any stretch, but it has enough flaws along the way that when looked on collectively it stands out as a very mixed episode. A flawed episode is sometimes still very easy to love, but when it demands 75 minutes from you it suddenly gets that little bit harder to care, especially when other episodes in Series 8 could have used just a few more minutes each to prevent such rushed resolutions.

Agree completely.

Great, I'll bear that in mind -I'm just about to start watching that next weekend (& never seen it before).

I've purchased all of the original surviving stories on DVD and been watching 2 episodes every weekend in chronological order (aside from late releases, e.g. WoF, EotW UM). I can see the finish line now, but I must say although I saw little of the 6th or 7th Doctor when originally aired in the 80's, and somewhat been looking forward to finally seeing as a result, many have been somewhat of a hard slog to sit through & watch!

In terms of the 7th Doc's 1st two stories:
-I actually didn't mind Time & the Rani, maybe as I had not seen it before & heard bad things about it. Some of the visuals & special effects are the best I've seen from the original series
-As for Paradise Towers -yes, already seen that one -I hated it before, and I still hate it now -it was the 1st 7th Doc story I saw. I wonder if whatever 7th Doctor story you see first, and the awful opening sequence influences your view of that story -? hmm

While there is a lot to like about it, for me, the standout problem is Clara's flip flop attitude to the new Doctor. At the beginning she's (understandably) very unsure of him. In the middle of the story, when she's apparently been abandoned by him, surrounded by the zombie robots and being threatened by the leader, she's very gung ho and expecting him to come to the rescue at any moment. Which he duly does, of course. But by the end she's very doubtful of him again. For me, the story needed to work harder to convince me of the changing attitude, especially the return to doubt.

I thought it was a good episode, but agree that the depiction of Clara in the story is a bit problematic as she feels like she's written a bit too much as an audience surrogate now that we have an 'older' Doctor (ie actor!). Seeing as she knew better than most that the Doctor comes in all shapes, sizes and outward appearances, and remembering her lovely scene with John Hurt's Doctor a few episodes ago, it just felt a bit "off" to me character-wise.

I actually think Jenna is great in the episode, but it just didn't ring entirely true for the character. I can also understand some opinions expressed at the time that Matt's cameo somehow undermined Peter C's Doctor, but I can see the reasoning and as a Matt fan I wasn't complaining. His last line onscreen wasn't "Hey." anymore.

Still, there's a lot that I like in the episode (the restaurant scene is terrific) and it's one I'm looking forward to revisiting as I plan to fill the Autumn 'gap' with the last couple of series...

Btw, nice to see Delta..., Power of Kroll and The Ark name checked above. Fond of all 3 for various reasons.

Matt's cameo sums up my biggest complaint of the episode, by the fact that scene was required to convince the audience that Capaldi is the Doctor, and to Clara who was inconsistent to say the least throughout this episode.

In the Eleventh Hour, we didn't need a message from Tennant to convince everyone he was The Doctor, why? Because the story was brilliantly written and got rid of most doubts about Matt Smith.

The same can't be said for Deep Breath, it wasn't a bad story, but it was nothing special either, and required scenes like that to try and make us accept Capaldi, and SM knew he failed in that regard so he put that scene in.

Well, following my enjoyable first ever full viewing of a 'recon' with The Massacre that I mentioned in the "remake" thread, I felt like some more Hartnell/Purves and plumped for this story, intending to watch an episode to see how I got on. An hour and a half later....

It's a gem of a story and immediately shoots up my list of most underrated stories, although as you say it's more 'overlooked'. Hartnell is great (not a 'fluff' in sight as he heads towards the end of his era) . The Doctor's condemnation of the Elders is a delight and the script gives him some great moments, name-checking the Daleks and angrily stating that their actions "..are not worth one soul." As was often the case, he has some delightful funny moments too. Loved his response to Dodo (seeing him in the tunic the Elders give him) saying he looked really 'with it'; "With what, my dear?" (God, I love the First Doctor.)

In his last story, Purves is great, and the departure of Steven is played subtly and touchingly, with the Doctor saying how proud he is of him. Actually, Purves was great full stop. Seeing this and The Massacre one after the other really brought home how good Steven was as a companion. He stays for strong moral reasons, absolutely in keeping. (I wonder if he idly wondered whether Nanina had a boyfriend, though? )

And poor, maligned Dodo? Absolutely fine in this story, her curiosity setting of a chain of events that lead to the right resolution. In this morality story, there are no real 'evil' characters and people learn things thanks to the travellers. (Bit jarring going from her 'Whatever the hell it's supposed to be' accent at the end of The Massacre to quite posh RP here; definitely for the best, mind.)

Other points: It is interesting that the Elders are aware of the Doctor by repute, decades before the Oncoming Storm stuff. Here is the traveller from Beyond. Lovely. Jaeger is brilliant in his first 'Who' role, and yeah, his channelling of Hartnell after Jano receives some of the Doctor's 'lifeforce' is a delight. The rest of the cast are very decent too. Also like to praise the person responsible for the recon, with some lovely 'added' effects that helps to bring things to life. I almost feel like I've seen this story now. (Had forgotten there were some clips in existence, which was a nice surprise)

To sum up: Highly recommend this as an excellent slice of Sixties Who.

Glad you liked it and I agree about Dodo, it was one of her better stories. I think with The Doctor incapacitated in large sections of the story it was down to her and Steven to carry the action, which they both did quite well.

My first underrated story was probably more underrated by me than most people but I wasn't particularly enamoured with the Day of the Daleks when I first watched it. This was the first Doctor Who VHS that I bought and back then I used to buy them blind, without any research and knowing little about different era's of the show. It was my first encounter with Jon Pertwee's Doctor. I'm not sure what I was expecting really, maybe for him to be a bit more like Worzel Gummidge? but it took me a while to appreciate his incarnation of the Doctor and I think I was mainly disappointed by the few battered and oddly sounding Dalek props trying to resemble an attack force.

I re-bought this on DVD and now really appreciate the timey-wimey aspect of the plot, (including the introduction of the Blinovitch Limitation effect) something that was rarely used in Classic Who but frequently used in Nu-Who and the team have done wonders with the special edition and the enhancements to the production really do the story justice.

The second underrated story is Frontios. I have a soft spot for season 21 anyway as it's the one I most clearly remember as a child but I particularly love the bleak nature of this story, with the last group of survivors from Earth, struggling to survive the daily bombardments. There's so much to love about this story too, the TARDIS being apparently destroyed, a sterling guest cast, the effect of people being eaten alive by the Earth (so good that they stole it years later for a Hungry Earth), Turlough frothing at the mouth, the Doctor cheerfully trying to pass Tegan off as an android "I got this one cheap because the walk's not quite right. And then there's the accent..."

I feel that this is another story that was mainly let down by production at the time, and when people mock it they mainly poke fun at the Tractator costumes. While the Tractators were a great concept the realisation did leave a lot to be desired. Actually I'd love to see them re-imagined for a story in Nu-Who with todays production values.

I loved Frontios as a young teen and still do. I think it's second only to Caves of Androzani in that season. Dark, creepy, great cast, moments of humour (the android Tegan bit, yeah, great stuff) a brilliant score and, personally, my favourite performance in the role by a favourite Doctor. Davison is fantastic in this....note perfect. Heroic, sarcy, funny; and it was nice to see the 'brainy specs' back. Top notch stuff. Okay, the Tractators are a bit cumbersome, but the chap who plays The Gravis is great and really sells it. Think it's a bit of a classic myself.

Frontios is a bit of a weird story for me, it's not one of my favourite Davison stories and really only Terminus I dislike more during this era. I just find it bleak, I hate the incidental music for it and as a story it just doesn't gel for me.

However, there is some good stuff to be had within the story. Totally agree with above posts about Davison's performance. Aside from Caves Of Androzani and to a small degree Four To Doomsday(Where as his first recorded story Davison was still finding his feet in the role) this is one of the few stories where he strays quite a bit from his standard interpretation of the role. He's crotchety, he's more assertive and definitely more humorous than normal.

As said above, that scene with Tegan and the android thing, this is one of my faves from his entire era. I also like the last scenes where The Doctor is using jokes and banter to tempt the Gravis into the console room and I also like the idea of the TARDIS being sucked under the earth, leaving The Doctor just as vulnerable as everyone else on Frontios.

Like it also that Turlough has something more to do than just being locked up and even Tegan has a bit more to do than usual.

The Gravis and the Tractators could have been better but overall it's just one of those stories that doesn't click for me, but it isn't awful by any means.

Davison was starting to really get into the role with Frontios and Caves. Shame we never got another season of him and Peri. I liked Colin but feel Peri worked better with the 5th Doctor.

I actually enjoyed the cameo and didn't feel it undermined the new Doctor at all. It was only Clara who needed the gentle push. I like the time travel element it required. 11 knew Clara and knew, regardless of how 12 would turn out, that Clara would be very doubtful, almost afraid of 12, and that nevertheless, 12 would absolutely need Clara.

Much more logical than, say, the Watcher at 4's demise.

I agree, they should have had more stories together. Big Finish have addressed this somewhat, there are several 5th Doctor/Peri stories, but yes, would have liked a few more on TV.

I've got to mention The Savages too! It scored very, very low in two DWM polls in the last decade. How can that be? The soundtrack CD was one of the first to be deleted, and nobody has actually "seen" the story since 1966, so I am at a loss to see how it can be disliked. Overlooked, maybe, but disliked?

It's smashing. Plenty of tension and atmosphere. Dodo is great. A strong performance from Bill Hartnell (not always the case in his later stories). Eerie music.

I love The Savages.

I'm Peri wishes she had more adventures with the 5th Doctor as well!

Caves does feel like an anomaly with the whole 5th Doctor era, the Doctor being much more assertive and after the rather crowded TARDIS, back to the "classic" one female Companion arrangement.

I disagree

The whole point of Deep Breath and indeed much of S8 (until MOTOE probably) was that this Doctor would be massively different and FAR less easy to deal with. The story was about the turmoil inside Clara, her deep bond with the Doctor against how weird and different this one was - the moment where he "abandoned" her with the clockwork droids was quite shocking at the time. If Clara accepted him from the start, it would have been unrealistic.

In The Twin Dilemma, Peri accepts the 6th Doctor FAR too easily, it makes her look weak, accepting this obnoxious man who tried to strangle her instead of just running a mile and making him "woo" her back.

By contrast Matt's Doctor was written to be fun and welcoming from the start. A much "easier" regeneration for the audience to deal with, and any potential Companions.

None of the other Doctor's have needed cameo's to convince the audience they are The Doctor. It is the writers problems that they didn't write him well enough to make the role his own.

None of the audience needed convincing this was the new Doctor - only Clara. The Paternoster Gang accepted him and knew who he was straight away.

The writers had no "proving identity" problem with audience. Only whether or not (some of) the audience liked him.

Like him or not, this was the new Doctor and Peter Capaldi owned the role from the start.

Smith never had a companion when he regenerated though.

Most of the episodes during the first five Doctors had multiple companions, the single female companion scenario was in the minority of the episodes during those years.