• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • Gadgets
  • Mobile Phones
Roaming in the EU from April 2016
<<
<
2 of 3
>>
>
moox
17-04-2016
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“Bit different for broadband. The service you get - when it's working - will be the same from any ISP.”

This is not true.

Different ISPs have better connections to the internet (or to certain networks), they have different features, different prices, and different levels of support when it is broken. If different ISPs use different underlying networks then there may be variation in speeds, too - for example 1Gbit with Hyperoptic, or 200Mbit with Virgin.

Different ISPs are also prone to having issues that degrade service, yet don't totally break it - but as it's not a total loss of service they would never fix them

e.g. with my provider I have the ability to have multiple IP addresses, I have IPv6, I have no restrictions on servers. If I were to move to BT or TalkTalk I would lose all of this. I can still get to websites, but that's abouit the only similarity. Moving to BT would give me BT Sport, or free access to BT wifi, which I do not get with my current ISP

It's like saying "all the mobile networks are the same, when it's working" - when there are obviously differences in price, coverage and performance that would be a huge part of your decision making
david16
17-04-2016
Originally Posted by moox:
“This is not true.

Different ISPs have better connections to the internet (or to certain networks), they have different features, different prices, and different levels of support when it is broken. If different ISPs use different underlying networks then there may be variation in speeds, too - for example 1Gbit with Hyperoptic, or 200Mbit with Virgin.

Different ISPs are also prone to having issues that degrade service, yet don't totally break it - but as it's not a total loss of service they would never fix them

e.g. with my provider I have the ability to have multiple IP addresses, I have IPv6, I have no restrictions on servers. If I were to move to BT or TalkTalk I would lose all of this. I can still get to websites, but that's abouit the only similarity. Moving to BT would give me BT Sport, or free access to BT wifi, which I do not get with my current ISP

It's like saying "all the mobile networks are the same, when it's working" - when there are obviously differences in price, coverage and performance that would be a huge part of your decision making”

Some shops and banks will provide you with free BT Wifi hotspot access without you being a BT customer. You don’t need to pay 4 quid an hour to use them like you have to to use residential BT Wifi hotspots.

Bank of Scotland (presumably also Lloyds and TSB), The Royal Bank Of Scotland (presumably also natwest bank) and Tesco all use BT Wifi for hotspot access.

Not sure which ISP’s the bus and train stations, and the buses and trains use to provide free wifi hotspot access.

If you live close enough to a shop or even above it, you probably wouldn’t have to even pay a penny to receive wifi internet. You’d have to be one of the lucky 0.1% of the population though if you are able to take advantage of that.
blueacid
17-04-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Tediously slow data would stop me caring about cost almost immediately.”

Me too, although I guess there might be some who genuinely don't notice or care? I'd imagine that some apps will do a lot to disguise a slow connection - snapchat downloads the images when they're sent then shows you them, so you might struggle to 'tell' that it was 0.3mbit rather than 20mbit. Text chat (so Yak, Telegram, Whatsapp, fb messenger etc) would just need a low latency connection etc. Plus, emails will send/receive in the background as well.

It's perfectly feasible that someone might just not care.. fortunately for those of us that do there are alternatives!
jonmorris
17-04-2016
They might care if they knew the impact on battery by having a slow connection. But that's not something they'd notice either.
No-One
17-04-2016
Originally Posted by moox:
“I think this is an extension of the "why do people stay with a rubbish provider even though they have major issues" conundrum - whether it's a mobile network like O2, or something like TalkTalk

They don't know that they can get a much better service on another network, and/or they don't want to pay a penny more for it, so they stick with mediocrity and say it's fine”

I've experienced similar at work. One of my workmates still uses o2 because "I've always been with them". She sits there when we're on our break only getting 2g which cuts out completely every now and then. Meanwhile I'm sat next to her using 4g on EE getting about 70meg. Occasionally I've let her tether her phone to mine and she suddenly gets inundated with emails, whatsapp, snapchats etc. You'd think she'd move networks when she sees the difference but she's still loyal.
Gigabit
17-04-2016
Originally Posted by moox:
“This is not true.

Different ISPs have better connections to the internet (or to certain networks), they have different features, different prices, and different levels of support when it is broken. If different ISPs use different underlying networks then there may be variation in speeds, too - for example 1Gbit with Hyperoptic, or 200Mbit with Virgin.

Different ISPs are also prone to having issues that degrade service, yet don't totally break it - but as it's not a total loss of service they would never fix them

e.g. with my provider I have the ability to have multiple IP addresses, I have IPv6, I have no restrictions on servers. If I were to move to BT or TalkTalk I would lose all of this. I can still get to websites, but that's abouit the only similarity. Moving to BT would give me BT Sport, or free access to BT wifi, which I do not get with my current ISP

It's like saying "all the mobile networks are the same, when it's working" - when there are obviously differences in price, coverage and performance that would be a huge part of your decision making”

Let me clarify my statement. The connection between you and the exchange will be exactly the same. Whereas with mobile you would be on a different mast.

The point I was trying to make was that you would see more of a noticeable difference (in the eyes of the average person), by changing mobile networks. Most people would see less of a difference by changing ISP, except in price. I'm assuming that congestion, etc. doesn't come into affect here as most people don't experience that.
moox
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“Let me clarify my statement. The connection between you and the exchange will be exactly the same. Whereas with mobile you would be on a different mast.

The point I was trying to make was that you would see more of a noticeable difference (in the eyes of the average person), by changing mobile networks. Most people would see less of a difference by changing ISP, except in price. I'm assuming that congestion, etc. doesn't come into affect here as most people don't experience that.”

I know what you are attempting to say, but you don't seem to understand that there is far more to the overall service than the last mile connection. You can repeat it all you like, but it isn't true. As I said, depending on the ISPs you are moving between, you may even be changing the last mile too. Not everyone uses BT's network. Or you may be moving from ADSL to FTTC/FTTP, thus making a difference there

If I use EE or 3 I use the shared infrastructure of MBNL, if I move to O2 or Vodafone that'll be cornerstone (in an upgraded area). That doesn't mean that EE/3 or O2/VF will have identical performance. Same argument as in the wired world.
moox
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by No-One:
“I've experienced similar at work. One of my workmates still uses o2 because "I've always been with them". She sits there when we're on our break only getting 2g which cuts out completely every now and then. Meanwhile I'm sat next to her using 4g on EE getting about 70meg. Occasionally I've let her tether her phone to mine and she suddenly gets inundated with emails, whatsapp, snapchats etc. You'd think she'd move networks when she sees the difference but she's still loyal.”

I've experienced it myself. I've been sat on trains where I'm happily streaming Netflix over 3 3G while the person next to me is strugging to download email on O2 GPRS.

I didn't say anything, I just thought it was hilarious.

It's believed that when David Cameron went on that coverage crusade a while back, it's because he was in Cornwall and his (presumably government supplied) phone didn't work where he was supposedly staying. He didn't seem to realise (or be told) that if he'd moved to a network that actually invested in infrastructure, he'd have coverage!
Aye Up
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by moox:
“I've experienced it myself. I've been sat on trains where I'm happily streaming Netflix over 3 3G while the person next to me is strugging to download email on O2 GPRS.

I didn't say anything, I just thought it was hilarious.

It's believed that when David Cameron went on that coverage crusade a while back, it's because he was in Cornwall and his (presumably government supplied) phone didn't work where he was supposedly staying. He didn't seem to realise (or be told) that if he'd moved to a network that actually invested in infrastructure, he'd have coverage!”

If you were talking about an everyday user, then that would be fine advice. Saying that to the PM with a secure phone running only on security services approved network is a bit limp. He like so many other government officials can't change their networks so easily, if they wanted that to happen it would start a whole new procurement process. I am sure Mr Cameron wasn't daft enough not to realise who better networks were at the time.

From what I can gather, since then the civil service has managed to negotiate with most networks to allow the PM's and others phones to roam freely, I believe Three didn't acquiesce. Even then that took some years to get agreement.
moox
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by Aye Up:
“If you were talking about an everyday user, then that would be fine advice. Saying that to the PM with a secure phone running only on security services approved network is a bit limp. He like so many other government officials can't change their networks so easily, if they wanted that to happen it would start a whole new procurement process. I am sure Mr Cameron wasn't daft enough not to realise who better networks were at the time.

From what I can gather, since then the civil service has managed to negotiate with most networks to allow the PM's and others phones to roam freely, I believe Three didn't acquiesce. Even then that took some years to get agreement.”

My point was that he went on some nationwide coverage crusade for 5 minutes, based on something that turned out not to be a real issue. (the area he was staying in wasn't a true black spot, just not on whatever network the government uses)

I would have hoped that his entourage would have already had a phone on another network for exactly this reason (or others, such as a huge network meltdown like all networks have had in the past) - hell, why not a TETRA radio on Airwave? Or a wired or satellite solution? It's a bit of an embarrassment for the UK government to be so reliant on a single point of failure.
bikerlad
18-04-2016
BT Mobile Prices:

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/d...-mobile-abroad

So why the differences in paying VAT? Are EE, for example, charging VAT on EURODATA in countries where it's not applicable?
Aye Up
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by moox:
“My point was that he went on some nationwide coverage crusade for 5 minutes, based on something that turned out not to be a real issue. (the area he was staying in wasn't a true black spot, just not on whatever network the government uses)

I would have hoped that his entourage would have already had a phone on another network for exactly this reason (or others, such as a huge network meltdown like all networks have had in the past) - hell, why not a TETRA radio on Airwave? Or a wired or satellite solution? It's a bit of an embarrassment for the UK government to be so reliant on a single point of failure.”

In that respect you make an excellent point. It was insinuated that the MIP was a direct result of the PM's experience in Cornwall......look where that went!

Procurement within Government has improved immensely over the last 5/6 years, most of all in mobile communications. The civil service have gotten better at wringing out better deals from mobile networks, that ability to roam notwithstanding. I don't know how widely rolled out the latter feature is, though I would imagine the government will have it reigned in so its not abused.

Even those latter solutions you suggest are an alternative, I don't think the PM is without communications completely......hes just a luddite
jonmorris
18-04-2016
I've heard some rumours that Three might soon find its Feel at Home offering isn't quite going to cut the mustard anymore, in Europe at least.

If true, that leaves AYCE data as its USP and not much else. Unless Three is going to step up its game, like adding more destinations to the scheme and introducing 4G roaming and no blocking of streaming services.

I am trying to find out more, and have lunch with someone from a network on Thursday where I'll be asking a few questions to get more detail.

Fingers crossed, we're going to see the networks actually competing with each other this year on roaming - which is all good news for the consumer. That is unless we vote to leave in June and in a couple of years we end up back where we started...
Aye Up
18-04-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“I've heard some rumours that Three might soon find its Feel at Home offering isn't quite going to cut the mustard anymore, in Europe at least.

If true, that leaves AYCE data as its USP and not much else. Unless Three is going to step up its game, like adding more destinations to the scheme and introducing 4G roaming and no blocking of streaming services.

I am trying to find out more, and have lunch with someone from a network on Thursday where I'll be asking a few questions to get more detail.

Fingers crossed, we're going to see the networks actually competing with each other this year on roaming - which is all good news for the consumer. That is unless we vote to leave in June and in a couple of years we end up back where we started...”

I am sure it was you who said PR and customer complaints would stop that from happening. Now I would say, you can't give something and take it away....a certain network has proved otherwise
jonmorris
18-04-2016
If we did leave the EU, chances are we'd still have similar roaming agreements but nobody can really know for sure. If hope so, as it would damn expensive otherwise!
plymouthbloke1974
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“If we did leave the EU, chances are we'd still have similar roaming agreements but nobody can really know for sure. If hope so, as it would damn expensive otherwise!”

Thing is, it might encourage people to put their phones away and enjoy their holidays... and for business users, well you should be claiming it back anyway!

I really hope people don't use mobile roaming rates as a reason to stay in the EU
Mark C
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“Thing is, it might encourage people to put their phones away and enjoy their holidays... and for business users, well you should be claiming it back anyway!

I really hope people don't use mobile roaming rates as a reason to stay in the EU”

Like the man says, +1
omnidirectional
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“I really hope people don't use mobile roaming rates as a reason to stay in the EU”

I doubt it will be on most people's mind but the roaming charges in non-EU states are scandalous. £6.99 per MB for data on Manx Telecom, or 68p/min to phone home.
Yogimax
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“Thing is, it might encourage people to put their phones away and enjoy their holidays... and for business users, well you should be claiming it back anyway!

I really hope people don't use mobile roaming rates as a reason to stay in the EU”

Unless you live in an area where you are forced to roam onto another EU country's network i.e. Northern Ireland around the border areas.
moox
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by Yogimax:
“Unless you live in an area where you are forced to roam onto another EU country's network i.e. Northern Ireland around the border areas.”

It's pretty mind boggling that this hasn't been resolved without the need of the EU though.

Especially when some of the ROI network operators are also UK ones

IIRC some parts of Canada/US have special roaming deals - e.g. Detroit and Windsor - so that residents don't get stung with roaming fees
Mark C
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by Yogimax:
“Unless you live in an area where you are forced to roam onto another EU country's network i.e. Northern Ireland around the border areas.”

What do you mean, forced to roam ? Switch roaming off on the phone, and it won't roam !
philt74
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by Mark C:
“What do you mean, forced to roam ? Switch roaming off on the phone, and it won't roam !”

How do you switch roaming off on an iPhone? You can't do it. The only thing you can do is switch data roaming off.
Mark C
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by philt74:
“How do you switch roaming off on an iPhone? You can't do it. The only thing you can do is switch data roaming off.”

Use Manual carrier setting (not Auto) and set to your home network ?
Yogimax
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by Mark C:
“Use Manual carrier setting (not Auto) and set to your home network ?”

And instead of a functioning phone which you can use to make and receive calls (that's what a phone is for!), you now have a useless slab of plastic, glass and electronics where there is no coverage on your home network in border areas!
Mark C
19-04-2016
Originally Posted by Yogimax:
“And instead of a functioning phone which you can use to make and receive calls (that's what a phone is for!), you now have a useless slab of plastic, glass and electronics where there is no coverage on your home network in border areas! ”

It's not just in border areas where you can have a useless slab, I can take you to plenty of places (especially if you're on O2 of VF) where that's the case, and no hope of roaming !

Pay your money, and take your choice, you don't have to make any calls if roaming, unless it's an emergency, in which case surely cost no object ?
<<
<
2 of 3
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map