Brilliant news - the BAFTA people are saying something nice to Missy!

Michelle Gomez has been shortlisted in the Supporting Actress category. Here's the full list:

SUPPORTING ACTRESS
CHANEL CRESSWELL This is England ’90 – Channel 4
ELEANOR WORTHINGTON-COX The Enfield Haunting
LESLEY MANVILLE River – BBC One
MICHELLE GOMEZ Doctor Who – BBC One

No other nominations for Doctor Who this year (or Sherlock for that matter). I'm really pleased for Michelle. She's taken a rather tired old character and made it something unique and interesting. And I did (personally) think she was the best thing about season 9.

Good for her! I didn't watch any of her DW episodes, but she was A M A Z I N G in the Sky Arts series "Psychobitches".

Frances Barber (Madame Kovarian) was in that too - her Bette Davis could not be bettered!

Doctor Who fans are FUMING according to the Daily Express.

I don't know about "fuming", but I'm disappointed Peter Capaldi wasn't nominated, as he was stunning in S9, especially in The Zygon Inversion and Heaven Sent

Nice to see someone from the show getting some recognition.

These days the show feels so far away from the days when Tennant was winning best actor awards every year, from one set of awards or another. It's a shame for Capaldi when his lack of recognition has nothing to with his performance and everything to do with the writing of a disjointed, changing by the series incarnation.

Anyway, I'm a fan of Missy, one of Moffats actual good contributions to the show (although she hasn't really been given a good story to shine yet in my opinion). Well deserved I think.

For me, Moffat's talent (with Doctor Who at least) has been in the supporting cast rather than his Doctors or companions. I've absolutely loved the likes of Missy, River Song, The Paternoster Gang and Sally Sparrow. I am disappointed last year's Sherlock isn't up for anything, though. A terrific collection of episodes I thought.

Agree with most of what you have said above, as I like all those characters, and yet feel like both the Moffat doctors would have done better under a different writer. I feel they would have definitely both better written and likely more popular had they had RTD writing them.

I will say though I did enjoy Amy Pond as companion in general (apart from the odd moments of 'my boys' as though she was the center of the group of her the doctor and Rory). In contrast, even saying or typing the name 'Clara' leaves a bad taste for me. If I didn't know better I'd almost think she was intentionally written to be disliked (particularly the series 8 Clara)

I feel Moffat's writing for the Doctor is one of his strengths, a lot moreso than for his side characters. I don't feel like RTD actually understood the character of the Doctor and rather wrote him as this boring, ordinary Joe who always got the girl and was a machine for spouting attempts at one-liners. Nothing of the mysterious wanderer who made up for his lack of conventionally heroic traits with his brains and his motives, but somebody who was an all too perfect Prince Charming and a dumbing down of the character. It was another TV case of "You have to be gorgeous and witty to be a hero"

Moffat remembers the character is an alien and really digs down into what makes the Doctor tick, and I don't think this has ever been truer with Series 9. He's not your typical hero... he can be rude and abrasive without even realising it and he's more interested in his gadgets than he is people and feelings... he often struggles with himself over what is right and wrong... but there's a strong sense of trying to do the right thing and just help out. He really feels like somebody who has seen and done a lot and comes from another world entirely.

So that said, I can understand peoples' bewilderment at Peter Capaldi not winning awards. I think he really is the best actor to play the Doctor since Tom Baker and he captures the character with a sense of wonder in a way the other three modern Doctors never could.

I will say, very honestly, that I am surprised Peter Capaldi hasn't got a nod this year.

He and the show have been moving away from the more popular accolades like the National Television Awards, but I did think with the critical feedback this year both were better positioned for the BAFTAs.

I don't personally feel Peter is any better an actor than Chris, David or Matt and I don't think his Doctor is written any more effectively than 9, 10 or 11.

I certainly think the 12th Doctor has a more intense persona which probably gives the impression that he's doing "proper" acting. But I've not really been able to find much variation in either his performance or the writing, no real "light and shade". It just feels very intense all the time.

This is all very subjective, of course, but perhaps the lack of light and shade is why he didn't get the BAFTA nod this year.

Michelle, on the other hand, changed emotional gears half a dozen times in almost every scene she was in - from happy and comical to threatening and frightening in a heart beat. A very well deserved nom!

I don't know about intense, as I feel Capaldi's Doctor can manage the softer moments without needing to go over the top about it. But his Doctor brings back that unique aspect that RTD completely lost when he reshaped the Doctor as a more typically conventional type of hero.

I reckon if RTD wrote for Capaldi's Doctor, we would have had a Twelfth Doctor who, much like Ten, was a flawed character without his flaws being properly addressed, a character lacking in intruige and otherworldliness but awkwardly placed in the role of a Messiah, and an essentially artificial character who wouldn't know when to tone down the angst and moping. I just don't think RTD could have done Capaldi any justice. I didn't enjoy his writing for Matt Smith's Doctor in SJA at all, as it felt like Matt was simply playing the Tenth Doctor, and in my opinion a large majority of Eccleston's and Tennant's best moments came from other writers.

Think what you like about RTD and his doctors, but its a fact that the show only still exists today because of his bringing the show back in an up to date way, and creating likeable doctors and companions. Had RTD in any way written Eccleston as a typically conventional type of hero' then it would have been boring and new who would have failed. Similarly, had RTD then written Tennant as a 'conventional type of hero' then people would have taken Eccleston as a one off and grown bored with Tennant.

In reality of course though, both Incarnations were hugely successful and Tennant is still comfortably the most popular new who doctor. Most of the scene's of his that I think of as memorable come from RTD written episodes.

Fast forward to now, and we have a doctor who is basically undefinable by having a completely different personality in both of his series, ratings on the slide, and a good actor not getting nominations for his hard work due to bad writing.

Think what you will either way, but not only is the show still here because of RTD's efforts, but Moffat's too. The show was very nearly cancelled after the departure of RTD and Tennant, and yet it's still here six years later and still a huge success, something many people seem to forget. It has been proven that though ratings aren't as strong as with Tennant, they're not exactly "on the slide" either. If Moffat was as unsuccessful as some people want to make out, the show would certainly be dead.

Anyway, I would argue a large part of the mainstream success during RTD's era was because of the more conventional reshaping. The star-crossed love story, the younger and more attractive hero, stories based more in emotion, etc. Whether that worked in quality or not is entirely subjective, but for me it just felt like the show lost its soul and I simply couldn't imagine RTD writing for Capaldi as a good thing. Moffat's style of the Doctor, in my opinion, is more intricate, bold and complex and I find it far more suited to Capaldi's Doctor.

That is exactly how I would describe the show these days. Still good and bad episodes as always,and still enough good to keep me watching obviously, but I don't seem to be invested in the way I once was, and Moffats who rarely makes me care in the same way that RTD's who excelled in doing.

Still, each to there own.

For me, a major issue for Capaldi's Doctor was being saddled - for two full seasons - with a dislikeable companion. So for me it's been a perfect storm of unlikeable Doctor with a dislikable companion.

And I take your point about the differences in season 8 and season 9 in his character. For me, it did feel as though the 'whackiness' of the Season 9 Doctor (the guitar, the tank, the sonic sunglasses, breaking the fourth wall) was very forced, like the writers were trying to flesh out or soften his character but in a rather ham-fisted way.

It would be nice if Capaldi gets a least one BAFTA nod before he leaves and I do wonder if they'll get it right with season 10 - a new companion can only help. For me, though, it does feel like a wasted incarnation. I cannot imagine Capaldi getting anywhere near the top of a 'Favourite Doctor' poll outside of Doctor Who Magazine and I think that's a great shame for him because I think he is a superb actor.

But I think Moffat has a great talent in misjudging what Doctor Who viewers want, whilst RTD nailed it season after season.

A lot also comes down to the quality of the candidates in each section, maybe the supporting actress section had fewer stand out performers?

Doctor Who also tends to suffer, as it's not put in the continuing drama section (where Holby was nominated) but isn't new so tends to get overlooked in the main drama section, as BAFTA I suspect prefer to honour new shows rather than something that's been going for a long time

Frances Barber and Michelle Gomez, and the rest of the cast (Samantha Spiro, Catherine Tate, Selina Griffiths, and others) are outstanding. Psychobitches is one of the TV highlights of last year, for me. The cast totally surrender themselves to startling performances.

Here's Michelle Gomez as Elizabeth The First. It's outrageous and filthy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ADGrq8cQco

She's amazing as Thatcher, too.

Completely agree.

We have a discussion in our house as to whether its right that some of the Psychobitches characters are played by male actors or whether the cast should be entirely female. But I do love Mark Gatiss as Joan Crawford SO much that I always end up thinking its OK to have a few blokes.

He actually spent a lot of yesterday battling it out with Tom Baker and David Tennant for the top spot in yesterday's Radio Times poll. He's actually a very popular Doctor and it's not just in Doctor Who Magazine you will see that.

There are more than a million ex-viewers who would disagree with you there

An interesting poll, though, and you're right - its the first time I've seen Capaldi getting something along the lines of a thumbs up from outside DWM or this forum. Although the voting is a little odd, with the plus and minus buttons. Which is different to all the other 'vote for your favourite' Doctor Who polls they have run previously.

Your point being? There are loads of people who think Tennant or Baker or any of the other Doctors are rubbish. You're trying the whole "My Doctor is more popular than your Doctor" fallacy.

The fact that such a popular Doctor as Tennant came along so early into the revival show's run could have spelt disaster for it when he left... yet here Doctor Who still is, one of the most trending shows on Twitter, a show of which its conventions collect masses of fans from all over the world, and its garnering plenty of critical acclaim and love from fans. An incredibly difficult feat Moffat managed to achieve, where most would have failed.

In comparison, losing a million viewers (most of which, it could be argued, were more into the RTD era of the show than the overall show itself) in a show which often scored 7-10 million viewers is nothing. It's like seeing the half-empty side of a glass rather than the half-full. Again, you're trying to dismiss its current popularity by waving it away as "Doctor Who magazine voters" like you previously have with "fanboys" because you don't want to admit what's there.

Let's not kid ourselves that the show would still be going strong if it was the same thing now as it was ten years ago. And don't forget, back in the years of 2005-2010, RTD and Tennant were getting just as much backlash on the internet as Moffat and jumping on the ratings everytime they were lower than before.

No, I am raising a concern that the drop in viewers is an issue with the 12th Doctor.


The show continues to be a success. How much is down to Moffat's Who and how much is down to what came before is questionable. Its important to remember countries don't buy Doctor Who from season 5, or season 8. They start at Season 1. And the BBC's most purchased drama series is Doctor Who Series 1 (starring Christopher Eccleston) which has attracted buyers from countries including Bahrain, Hong Kong, France and Chile.


The show didn't 'often score' 10m viewers outside of Christmas specials and the season 4 finale. A million+ viewers in a single year equates to about 15%+ of its regular audience. That's hardly a drop in the ocean.


There are always haters on Twitter. But I think the show has had more negative publicity since 2010 than it did before - complicated plots, production gaps and falling viewing figures.

I'm happy the show is still doing well. I don't think its a 'hit show' anymore, which I've said before. But I think it could still regain its previous viewing figures and I think the new showrunner from Season 11 will be central to that.

But I think, at the moment, the show is straying from its successful formula to something that keeps DS Forum members happy rather than family viewers. And I remain concerned that the 12th Doctor isn't likeable enough. Its that simple really. No conspiracies, no fallacies. Just a point of view.

Because again, it would have been easy for the show to just fade into obscurity after the huge success of RTD and Tennant, but Moffat has managed to keep it going strong. Not because of what came before, that was what kept the show going strong at the time, but because many people still enjoy it and it continues to be a hit show rather than a show that people watch because it "used to be good"

I would imagine Series 1 is purchased a lot because in the natural progression of numbers, 1 generally comes before 5 or 8.


Hence why I said 7 to 10 million.


I can assure you that it wasn't just Twitter. There was also YouTube, Facebook, Digital Spy, Gallifrey Base, etc. Much like Moffat's era now, RTD's era saw a load of backlash from fans of the show at the time.

You're doing it again. According to you, praise for Moffat and Capaldi and so on only comes from such-and-such obscure places and likewise, criticism for RTD and Tennant only comes from such-and-such obscure places. It's almost confirmation bias the way you just throw information you don't want to hear into the dismissal box.

The ironic thing, I don't hear as much negativity towards Capaldi anywhere else as I do on here (apart from young girls on Facebook complaining he's not young or cute, but people don't tend to listen to them, Capaldi fans or otherwise).

But I like said, according to you any.positivity towards Moffat or Capaldi only comes from obscure places that don't matter anyway.