DS Forums

 
 

Sport's Personality Of The Year 2016 Odds (Skybet)


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29-11-2016, 07:13
Eater Sundae
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,674
There never used to be a list of course. You voted for whoever you wanted but SPOTY has now become an institutionalised awards event where the nation recognises sporting achievement rather than simply which personality most resonated with the general public.
I never understood the logic in creating a short list. It is not necessary, and demeans the whole contest by pre-deciding what the public thinks. If it's supposed to be a public decision, then it should be up to the public to decide.

For all the panel know, Chris Froome might have won vthe popular vote, but we'll never know.

They could, and in my opinion should, revert to the old system, without a short list
Eater Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 29-11-2016, 10:28
Darren Lethem
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hull - UK City of Culture
Posts: 27,237
No I am not penalising anyone, all I am looking at is how good of a year has someone has had on an individual level, as that is what this main award looks at, and for example, although Leicester won the Premier League, that was exceptional, Vardy's part was not exceptional (by that I mean scoring 40 plus goals, now that would have exceptional, but he just scored a decent amount of goals for a title winning team).

This award is about doing that bit more than everyone else in that persons respective sport, so if again for example, three or four cyclists went that bit further, and achieved that bit more than any other cyclists, and that in the wider perspective, outweighs what other people in other sports have achieved, then just because there are four exceptional cyclists, shouldn't mean that one or two of them should not be on the final shortlist.

The fact that Froome won the Tour de France, is a far bigger achievement than what Bale contributed towards Real Madrid and Wales this year (as great as both sides success' were), so he should have been on the shortlist ahead of Bale.

If the final shortlist is predominantly from one sport (or variations thereof), then I don't see anything at all wrong with that, it would just show how strong a year that sport has had, and how good the individuals have been.

Also I note that you are yet to answer my question about Cox, when you say the list could have been dominated by cyclists, were you including Cox as a cyclist, an athlete, or both?
I said we would have 5 cyclists, thus meaning there are 4 now so surely you can work out that i was including her as a cyclist because it is her cycling, as well as her athletics, that has got her a nomination.

And you did use the words "Cop out to pick anybody who wasnt in Rio" So YES you would penalise people for being in a sport that isnt in the Olympics. Andy Murray is going to walk this, rightly so, and that is predominantly for what he did outside of the Olympics.
Darren Lethem is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 10:29
Darren Lethem
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hull - UK City of Culture
Posts: 27,237
I never understood the logic in creating a short list. It is not necessary, and demeans the whole contest by pre-deciding what the public thinks. If it's supposed to be a public decision, then it should be up to the public to decide.

For all the panel know, Chris Froome might have won vthe popular vote, but we'll never know.

They could, and in my opinion should, revert to the old system, without a short list
And who would vote ?

Would you buy a copy of the Radio Times, cut out the coupon, fill it in and post to the BBC ? I certainly wouldn't and i would wager i would be in the vast majority. Times change.
Darren Lethem is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 10:56
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,157
I said we would have 5 cyclists, thus meaning there are 4 now so surely you can work out that i was including her as a cyclist because it is her cycling, as well as her athletics, that has got her a nomination.

And you did use the words "Cop out to pick anybody who wasnt in Rio" So YES you would penalise people for being in a sport that isnt in the Olympics. Andy Murray is going to walk this, rightly so, and that is predominantly for what he did outside of the Olympics.
Cox got the nod due to her unprecedented success in two top level sports, not just for her cycling ability, so just putting her in the cycling category would be a tad demeaning really.

I am not penalising anyone by what I said, I was praising the shear unbelievable talent that was in Rio, in both the Paralympics and the Olympics. The amount of people who attained such high standards outweighs those that were not at Rio, so it was a cop out or a sop to those like Vardy and Bale who didn't do anything individually that was as outstanding (Vardy's run if 11 consecutive games scored in was good though) as Cockcroft, Froome, or others who were in Rio.

Murray winning this will be because of his Gold medal, and winning as many tournaments as he did, plus being world number one, it is the whole package, it isn't down to just one reason (number one, Wimbledon etc), as much as you seem willing to dismiss his gold medal efforts.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 11:09
JauntyMonty
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 350
I think the panel are putting too much stock in winning multiple medals. I'm a big fan of Jason Kenny but all three of his events come down to a 1½ to 3 lap effort. He's generally racing against the same riders in each event except for a few who specialise or focus on the keirin.

While not wanting to belittle anyones achievements the Paralympic multi-medalists are often competing against the same small pool of talent.

For me the shortlist for SPOTY has become as much about medal/title counting (not just over the year but a career) and diversity than weighing up the years sporting achievements.
JauntyMonty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 11:09
Darren Lethem
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hull - UK City of Culture
Posts: 27,237
Cox got the nod due to her unprecedented success in two top level sports, not just for her cycling ability, so just putting her in the cycling category would be a tad demeaning really.

I am not penalising anyone by what I said, I was praising the shear unbelievable talent that was in Rio, in both the Paralympics and the Olympics. The amount of people who attained such high standards outweighs those that were not at Rio, so it was a cop out or a sop to those like Vardy and Bale who didn't do anything individually that was as outstanding (Vardy's run if 11 consecutive games scored in was good though) as Cockcroft, Froome, or others who were in Rio.

Murray winning this will be because of his Gold medal, and winning as many tournaments as he did, plus being world number one, it is the whole package, it isn't down to just one reason (number one, Wimbledon etc), as much as you seem willing to dismiss his gold medal efforts.
I am not dismissing his gold medal. You must be THE WORST poster on DS for reading what ISN'T written. Where have I dismissed it ? Show me ? Then show where you said "IT IS A COP OUT TO CHOOSE PEOPLE NOT IN RIO"
Darren Lethem is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 11:57
BFGArmy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14,317
Don't think I'm ever satisfied with the SPOTY shortlist and this year will be no exception.

Froome really is an obvious omission - Wiggins won in 2012 for winning Tdf and getting a gold in the Olympics while Froome does the former and gets a bronze but doesn't even get nominated.

Seems ridiculous to extend it to 16 and then not include him. Especially since Vardy gets on the shortlist - the 11 goals run was in 2015 and his performances since June have hardly been anything special.

Not been a fan of the show itself really in recent years - it very much seems to brush over loads of sports (particularly if the BBC don't have them) to talk with the nominees and with 16 nominees, 2 hours of so of TV and numerous awards that's probably going to be worse than ever this year.
BFGArmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 11:59
Department_S
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Home Counties North
Posts: 3,336
And who would vote ?

Would you buy a copy of the Radio Times, cut out the coupon, fill it in and post to the BBC ? I certainly wouldn't and i would wager i would be in the vast majority. Times change.
No of course not and gone are the days of "answers on a postcard" as well. That said there's nothing to stop the BBC simply creating an online entry method to suggest your winner and submit!

Forgive me if Im wrong but I believe the suggested shortlist was created to prevent online campaigns carrying through an unlikely winner. Like that angler who was nominated every year and with pre regulation of public votes was clearly prevented from winning.
Department_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 12:14
Eater Sundae
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,674
Don't think I'm ever satisfied with the SPOTY shortlist and this year will be no exception.

Froome really is an obvious omission - Wiggins won in 2012 for winning Tdf and getting a gold in the Olympics while Froome does the former and gets a bronze but doesn't even get nominated.

Seems ridiculous to extend it to 16 and then not include him. Especially since Vardy gets on the shortlist - the 11 goals run was in 2015 and his performances since June have hardly been anything special.

Not been a fan of the show itself really in recent years - it very much seems to brush over loads of sports (particularly if the BBC don't have them) to talk with the nominees and with 16 nominees, 2 hours of so of TV and numerous awards that's probably going to be worse than ever this year.
I think when it started, the idea was that it would be for the sports that the BBC covered. Although what they would have done if an athlete in an obscure sport that they didn't cover had won, I don't know.
Eater Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 12:18
Darren Lethem
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hull - UK City of Culture
Posts: 27,237
No of course not and gone are the days of "answers on a postcard" as well. That said there's nothing to stop the BBC simply creating an online entry method to suggest your winner and submit!

Forgive me if Im wrong but I believe the suggested shortlist was created to prevent online campaigns carrying through an unlikely winner. Like that angler who was nominated every year and with pre regulation of public votes was clearly prevented from winning.
What happened with Bob Nudd was the Angling Times printed the entry form in their magazine too which of course wasnt allowed as it was via The Radio Times.
Darren Lethem is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 12:38
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,157
I think the panel are putting too much stock in winning multiple medals. I'm a big fan of Jason Kenny but all three of his events come down to a 1½ to 3 lap effort. He's generally racing against the same riders in each event except for a few who specialise or focus on the keirin.

While not wanting to belittle anyones achievements the Paralympic multi-medalists are often competing against the same small pool of talent.

For me the shortlist for SPOTY has become as much about medal/title counting (not just over the year but a career) and diversity than weighing up the years sporting achievements.
We should be proud of the fact that we have so many mulit-medalists to select from, as it wasn't really that long ago, that I think it was in Atlanta, where we cane back with single digits in total, in terms of gold medals, so let's not become blasé or think that this kind of success is something that we should not be in awe of, because we should be, and to win multiple medals, be in in the Paralympics, or the Olympics, is something that takes a tremendous amount of effort, pain and endurance.

So multiple medal winning athletes should be recognised for their efforts, and I am glad that they are putting as much stock into them as they seemingly are, as they are a huge achievement.


I am not dismissing his gold medal. You must be THE WORST poster on DS for reading what ISN'T written. Where have I dismissed it ? Show me ? Then show where you said "IT IS A COP OUT TO CHOOSE PEOPLE NOT IN RIO"
You have said on multiple occasions that you think he is winning this award more for his achievements outside of his gold medal then for it, if that is not dismissing the effort and hardwork, and prestige of such a medal, winning a gold medal, is more important than winning any grand slam event, (such as Wimbledon), due to the fact that it only comes around once every four years!
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 13:10
Darren Lethem
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hull - UK City of Culture
Posts: 27,237
We should be proud of the fact that we have so many mulit-medalists to select from, as it wasn't really that long ago, that I think it was in Atlanta, where we cane back with single digits in total, in terms of gold medals, so let's not become blasé or think that this kind of success is something that we should not be in awe of, because we should be, and to win multiple medals, be in in the Paralympics, or the Olympics, is something that takes a tremendous amount of effort, pain and endurance.

So multiple medal winning athletes should be recognised for their efforts, and I am glad that they are putting as much stock into them as they seemingly are, as they are a huge achievement.


You have said on multiple occasions that you think he is winning this award more for his achievements outside of his gold medal then for it, if that is not dismissing the effort and hardwork, and prestige of such a medal, winning a gold medal, is more important than winning any grand slam event, (such as Wimbledon), due to the fact that it only comes around once every four years!

I certainly do think his winning of the SPOTY will be for what he has done all year around. Winning Wimbledon and getting to World number 1 being the main things

Here are some facts for you

Murray doesnt win Olympic Gold but wins Wimbledon and goes to World number 1 he is still odds on favourite for SPOTY

Murray doesnt win Wimbledon or get to world number 1 but wins in Rio, then he isnt favourite for SPOTY. If you think otherwise then you are clearly deluded

Just seen you rank a gold medal over a Wimbledon crown so clearly you are deluded but then again you also said The Rock was a greater sportsman than Muhammed Ali so you obviously are either 11 or have no knowledge on sport at all. You cannot distinguish between fact and fiction. I would hate to be near you when you find out the tooth fairy isnt real
Darren Lethem is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 13:23
JauntyMonty
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 350
We should be proud of the fact that we have so many mulit-medalists to select from, as it wasn't really that long ago, that I think it was in Atlanta, where we cane back with single digits in total, in terms of gold medals, so let's not become blasé or think that this kind of success is something that we should not be in awe of, because we should be, and to win multiple medals, be in in the Paralympics, or the Olympics, is something that takes a tremendous amount of effort, pain and endurance.

So multiple medal winning athletes should be recognised for their efforts, and I am glad that they are putting as much stock into them as they seemingly are, as they are a huge achievement.
Nowhere have I said that we shouldn't be proud or recognise mult-medalists only that too much stock is being put in it.

Should we penalise athletes who win one gold when thats all they have on offer to win?

The panel should be weighing up the achievements based on numerous criteria with the depth and quality of competition more important than how many medals/titles they have won.
JauntyMonty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 13:58
clever3000
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Posts: 1,708
Not been a fan of the show itself really in recent years - it very much seems to brush over loads of sports (particularly if the BBC don't have them) to talk with the nominees and with 16 nominees, 2 hours of so of TV and numerous awards that's probably going to be worse than ever this year.
Some sports seem to always be ignored, Snooker for instance, when was the last time a snooker player was even nominated. Ronnie O'Sullivan does have a point. He has also been harshly done by in years gone by with no nominations in recent years.

The nominations arent too bad this year but there are some omissions that are more deserving of being nominated than others who are on the list. Bale and Vardy shouldnt be anywhere near the list. Their achievements this year were team achievements and it is harsh on a lot of very good sportsmen and women that deserved the nominations more.
clever3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 14:00
BelfastGuy125
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,693
Where is Carl Frampton????
BelfastGuy125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 14:34
Sick Bullet
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Middleton
Posts: 13,833
What do you feel about Vardy he achieved all of his awards with a team, shouldn't it be an individual award.
Sick Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 15:00
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,157
I certainly do think his winning of the SPOTY will be for what he has done all year around. Winning Wimbledon and getting to World number 1 being the main things

Here are some facts for you

Murray doesnt win Olympic Gold but wins Wimbledon and goes to World number 1 he is still odds on favourite for SPOTY

Murray doesnt win Wimbledon or get to world number 1 but wins in Rio, then he isnt favourite for SPOTY. If you think otherwise then you are clearly deluded

Just seen you rank a gold medal over a Wimbledon crown so clearly you are deluded but then again you also said The Rock was a greater sportsman than Muhammed Ali so you obviously are either 11 or have no knowledge on sport at all. You cannot distinguish between fact and fiction. I would hate to be near you when you find out the tooth fairy isnt real
Wrong, what you state as facts are merely just your opinions that you are expressing as facts in your mind.

And again you use name calling and put downs to try and get your point across, I am not eleven, but I do have a fair bit of knowledge of sport in general, and I can distinguish between fact and fiction, whereas it does seem that you struggle with the concept of opinion and fact, there is a huge difference between the two.


Nowhere have I said that we shouldn't be proud or recognise mult-medalists only that too much stock is being put in it.

Should we penalise athletes who win one gold when thats all they have on offer to win?

The panel should be weighing up the achievements based on numerous criteria with the depth and quality of competition more important than how many medals/titles they have won.
We shouldn't penalise people who can only get one medal in their chosen discipline, but neither should we get too complacent over those that have got multiple medals.
It's a very hard balancing act, no doubt about that, but having multiple medals does show someone in a tremendous light.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 15:06
celesti
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,845
He's right though, if Andy Murray wins Olympic gold and nothing else he's getting nowhere near an award because a gold medal is down the totem pole of the sport below grand slams and rankings.
celesti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 15:13
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,157
He's right though, if Andy Murray wins Olympic gold and nothing else he's getting nowhere near an award because a gold medal is down the totem pole of the sport below grand slams and rankings.
Until that situation arises, we will never know for sure, we can only but guess.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 15:19
celesti
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,845
It's not guesswork, it's obvious.
celesti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 15:20
Ginger Daddy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,798
Until that situation arises, we will never know for sure, we can only but guess.
Golf is a similar sport to Tennis by virtue of the fact they both have 4 Major events.

Justin Rose won a gold medal in the Olympics in golf. Where is he in the list of 16 names?

Point proven, IMO.

It's not guesswork, it's obvious.
Indeed, as demonstrated above.
Ginger Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 15:29
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,157
It's not guesswork, it's obvious.
Golf is a similar sport to Tennis by virtue of the fact they both have 4 Major events.

Justin Rose won a gold medal in the Olympics in golf. Where is he in the list of 16 names?

Point proven, IMO.



Indeed, as demonstrated above.
To be honest, I would have included him over Vardy or Bale, his achievements on a personal level, were far more impressive than either of those two sportspeople.
It is strange to see those two there, as they do stick out a fair bit, must have been Giggs nominating them.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 15:58
detroitcity
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,306
To be honest, I would have included him over Vardy or Bale, his achievements on a personal level, were far more impressive than either of those two sportspeople.
It is strange to see those two there, as they do stick out a fair bit, must have been Giggs nominating them.
Rose's solitary achievement in the past year was 1 win in a small field where very few top players even bothered to turn up.

He done absolutely nothing in the majors or WGC events. These are the events that count for golfers and tennis players (swap WGC for Masters 1000). Hence Willett being in and Rose not as mentioned above.
detroitcity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 16:13
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,157
Rose's solitary achievement in the past year was 1 win in a small field where very few top players even bothered to turn up.

He done absolutely nothing in the majors or WGC events. These are the events that count for golfers and tennis players (swap WGC for Masters 1000). Hence Willett being in and Rose not as mentioned above.
Personally I would have included both, if we are talking from a pure golfing perspective, as both achieved top honours in the game.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2016, 16:16
Ginger Daddy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,798
Personally I would have included both, if we are talking from a pure golfing perspective, as both achieved top honours in the game.
And so did plenty of others, a list can only be so big. When you have to miss out the bloody Tour de France winner, you know its a tough year.
Ginger Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:50.