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Putting out singles before the album release?


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Old 16-04-2016, 03:02
TheGraduate2012
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So often I hear singles/fans complain about low-charting singles which have been released months and months after the album. Is that really such a surprise? Fans are not going to buy a song if they've already bought it on the album.

Which got me thinking, would it not make more sense for label execs to release the majority of singles BEFORE the album release? Usually we just get one (the lead) and maybe a second. This seems to be why fourth and fifth singles are becoming a rarity.

If I was releasing music, I'd want to put out three before the album came out, and then maybe 2 afterwards.
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Old 16-04-2016, 07:23
Thorney
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I answered this in the music industry thread , record companies do release a lot of singles before album release right now but the catch is they make them grats which means if you preorder the album you get these tracks right away for free, When David Bowie made his comeback a few years ago these tracks counted towards the singles chart and he had a massive hit see also Daft Punk. The last to benefit from this was Ed Sheeran

Then the rules changed now grats don't count towards the singles chart so album acts are entering the singles chart much lower or in most cases not entering the chart at all. The other factor is these grats which can sometimes be anything from 2 tracks to most of the album are also available free on streaming sites so you have no incentive to buy them.

Not all acts do this but most do,this is how a band like Last Shadow puppets had a top 10 lead single last time and this time it fails to chart even though both albums were number ones that sold around 50000 first week.

This is one of the reasons why the chart is now dominated by non album artists. As I said this doesn't apply to everyone rtists like Adele, Kanye West and Coldplay use different tactics

I think record companies believe album sales would have collapsed completely by now if they did what you suggest , but I agree it would be better
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Old 16-04-2016, 14:33
SepangBlue
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It's merely an indication of how the music industry has changed since I bought my first singles in the early sixties.

Singles in those days were, with very few exceptions (Beatles A Hard Day's Night, Help! and Yellow Submarine being notable examples) issued as stand alone units, which were ordered in massive quantities by fans who contributed to putting their favourite artists into the charts.

LPs rarely contained the singles that were already out there, so music fans could be guaranteed all fresh new material with each eagerly awaited album.

The recent situation, where Justin Beiber had a ridiculous number of records in the charts at the same time, could only come about with the issuing of album tracks as singles. I'm amazed that fans stand for it .. surely, if they've bought the album and then see virtually all the tracks released as singles, don't they feel that their purchased has been cheapened?
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Old 16-04-2016, 14:49
ShaunIOW
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What puts me off singles is the fact they now seem to contain numerous versions/remixes of the same bloody song rather than an exclusive track like B sides used to have or a couple of live tracks.
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Old 16-04-2016, 15:34
Tejas
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The recent situation, where Justin Beiber had a ridiculous number of records in the charts at the same time, could only come about with the issuing of album tracks as singles. I'm amazed that fans stand for it .. surely, if they've bought the album and then see virtually all the tracks released as singles, don't they feel that their purchased has been cheapened?
I could be wrong here, but I suspect that Justin Bieber's chart domination was more down to people with a casual interest in his music who weren't prepared to fork out for the album. Don't forget as well that a large chunk of his "sales" actually came from streaming, so people weren't even buying the songs!

What I find most baffling is that Adele and Ed Sheeran can score massive chart hits when their albums sell ridiculous numbers of copies.
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Old 17-04-2016, 01:27
Westy2
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Are 'singles' still the same mix as the version on the album thesedays?

I remember buying the Best Of Sting & being annoyed that This Cowboy Song was not the version with Pato Banton on!
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Old 17-04-2016, 01:48
umr3000
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I think most artists would benefit from releasing at least 2 singles before an album release.
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Old 17-04-2016, 02:42
TheGraduate2012
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Are 'singles' still the same mix as the version on the album thesedays?

I remember buying the Best Of Sting & being annoyed that This Cowboy Song was not the version with Pato Banton on!
Usually yes, they are. Sometimes you'll get a remixed version or some added featured guest (usually a rapper).
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Old 17-04-2016, 02:48
TheGraduate2012
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It's merely an indication of how the music industry has changed since I bought my first singles in the early sixties.

Singles in those days were, with very few exceptions (Beatles A Hard Day's Night, Help! and Yellow Submarine being notable examples) issued as stand alone units, which were ordered in massive quantities by fans who contributed to putting their favourite artists into the charts.

LPs rarely contained the singles that were already out there, so music fans could be guaranteed all fresh new material with each eagerly awaited album.

The recent situation, where Justin Beiber had a ridiculous number of records in the charts at the same time, could only come about with the issuing of album tracks as singles. I'm amazed that fans stand for it .. surely, if they've bought the album and then see virtually all the tracks released as singles, don't they feel that their purchased has been cheapened?
It's a shame this is not that case anymore. Although albums these days have so many tracks (usually 12-15) that even if a singer releases 5 singles, you're still getting 10 "new" songs when you buy the album. Funnily, Justin B's recent success is actually only down to 3 three singles from his new album and 1 in which he is a feature on someone else's song, he's just that overexposed. Taylor Swift, on the other hand, has released 7 singles off her most recent album which is almost unheard of.
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Old 17-04-2016, 09:46
AdzPower
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That's actually what they still do in places like Japan, other Asian countries etc, they put out 4/5 singles and then a full album, and physical singles over there are still humungus.
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Old 17-04-2016, 10:11
Breaking_News
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I answered this in the music industry thread , record companies do release a lot of singles before album release right now but the catch is they make them grats which means if you preorder the album you get these tracks right away for free, When David Bowie made his comeback a few years ago these tracks counted towards the singles chart and he had a massive hit see also Daft Punk. The last to benefit from this was Ed Sheeran

Then the rules changed now grats don't count towards the singles chart so album acts are entering the singles chart much lower or in most cases not entering the chart at all. The other factor is these grats which can sometimes be anything from 2 tracks to most of the album are also available free on streaming sites so you have no incentive to buy them.

Not all acts do this but most do,this is how a band like Last Shadow puppets had a top 10 lead single last time and this time it fails to chart even though both albums were number ones that sold around 50000 first week.

This is one of the reasons why the chart is now dominated by non album artists. As I said this doesn't apply to everyone rtists like Adele, Kanye West and Coldplay use different tactics

I think record companies believe album sales would have collapsed completely by now if they did what you suggest , but I agree it would be better
what are grats ?

and what do you mean by album artsists? and why are they enterting the charts lower?

My take on this is, for the first 6 months after release, an album should only be available to download as an entire album. you shouldnt allow picking and choosing of tracks- as this affect the singles sales of singles 2 and 3.

Or release 2 - 3 singles BEFORE you release an album. Simples!
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Old 17-04-2016, 13:09
Thorney
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A grat is a single that is also available as a preorder for a bands new album , if you preorder you get that track straight away and all tracks after when they get released these are available from I tunes or Amazon .

Grats used to count for the singles chart now they don't so the sales that used to go to s single now go towards an album chart

An album artist is a band or singer that people want any of their tracks rather than just one hit song , eg shut up and dance by walk the moon was a hit song but all saints - one strike most of it's sales went on Grats as well as three other releases and they get a hit album and. No hit singles

If they did what you suggest people would just go back to illegally downloading albums rather than streaming or preordering as they wouldn't wait
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Old 17-04-2016, 16:41
Breaking_News
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A grat is a single that is also available as a preorder for a bands new album , if you preorder you get that track straight away and all tracks after when they get released these are available from I tunes or Amazon .

Grats used to count for the singles chart now they don't so the sales that used to go to s single now go towards an album chart

An album artist is a band or singer that people want any of their tracks rather than just one hit song , eg shut up and dance by walk the moon was a hit song but all saints - one strike most of it's sales went on Grats as well as three other releases and they get a hit album and. No hit singles

If they did what you suggest people would just go back to illegally downloading albums rather than streaming or preordering as they wouldn't wait
Why would the record company NOT want a hit single as well though ? it doesnt make sense.

A single always acts as an advertisement for the album

if you download a single, you always get a "complete your album " message when u go to download the album later on.

so you are always "gifted " the single.
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Old 17-04-2016, 17:39
JohnStannard
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So often I hear singles/fans complain about low-charting singles which have been released months and months after the album. Is that really such a surprise? Fans are not going to buy a song if they've already bought it on the album.

Which got me thinking, would it not make more sense for label execs to release the majority of singles BEFORE the album release? Usually we just get one (the lead) and maybe a second. This seems to be why fourth and fifth singles are becoming a rarity.

If I was releasing music, I'd want to put out three before the album came out, and then maybe 2 afterwards.
this makes sence
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Old 17-04-2016, 20:56
Thorney
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Why would the record company NOT want a hit single as well though ? it doesnt make sense.

A single always acts as an advertisement for the album

if you download a single, you always get a "complete your album " message when u go to download the album later on.

so you are always "gifted " the single.
You are only 'gifted' the single if you preorder the album , if you buy the song then complete the album that still counts as a sale as they can't remove it weeks later .

the single is still an advert it's on radio , YouTube ,you can stream it etc but unless it has really big single sales It is unlikely to chart high with these deducted sales,

They do want hit singles but the OCC (the chart compilers) changed the rules and record companies haven't changed their strategies yet or even hinted that they will. They seem happy inflating album sales which tbh with the odd exception are pretty poor week to week.

These songs used to appear iTunes chart with the preorder sales included so this made them show in the iTunes top 40 , which encouraged more sales, and sometimes they would take up the top 20 like when Ed Sheeran released 'X' now they don't get counted even on iTunes singles chart
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Old 17-04-2016, 21:33
Hitstastic
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Instant grats is such a curious thing that by releasing too many prior to an album ends up having such a negative knock on effect.

Step forward Madonna. Almost half of Rebel Heart was on iTunes before the album was released and most people downloaded all the songs as they wanted to pre-order the album.

One of those songs was the brilliant, imo, Ghosttown. When Ghosttown was confirmed as the second single, it bombed. Probably because anyone who really wanted that song had already got the track when it was added to iTunes in December 2014. It got a fair amount of airplay from Radio 2 and the song did manage to remain top 200 on iTunes for a few weeks.

Had Ghosttown been given a proper single release before the album was released, and no instant grats were released, I reckon Ghosttown would've done a lot better.

Anyways, as for the OP Calvin Harris did this with 18 Months. The album was released in October 2012 but the first 5 singles from that album (Bounce, Feel So Close, Let's Go, We'll Be Coming Back and Sweet Nothing) were all released prior to the album.

What makes it all the more impressive is that the singles released after the album were also successful. It must be one of the few albums where every single off the album was a top 10 hit. It must also be noted there there wasn't a single instant grat released before the album.
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Old 17-04-2016, 22:06
hazydayz
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Or why not stick 4 or 5 songs on a CD and sell it for £1.99 and do the same for vinyl and give the fans tracks they've not heard before with artwork they've never seen before and they can hold it in their hands and display it on their shelves and they've got a REASON to pay money for it.
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Old 18-04-2016, 07:07
Thorney
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Or why not stick 4 or 5 songs on a CD and sell it for £1.99 and do the same for vinyl and give the fans tracks they've not heard before with artwork they've never seen before and they can hold it in their hands and display it on their shelves and they've got a REASON to pay money for it.
There are still some physical singles being released but many of the singles buyers now have never bought a cd, don't think we can turn this back now.
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Old 18-04-2016, 07:17
unique
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the general idea is you release a single a week or two before the album, and put out promo copies before then so it's played on radio etc and that's a teaser and promotion for the album, which gets released and then usually 3 more singles are released after that to promote the album by getting the artist played on radio etc
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Old 18-04-2016, 08:59
mgvsmith
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Instant grats is such a curious thing that by releasing too many prior to an album ends up having such a negative knock on effect.

Step forward Madonna. Almost half of Rebel Heart was on iTunes before the album was released and most people downloaded all the songs as they wanted to pre-order the We'll Be Coming Back and Sweet Nothing) were all released prior to the album.
...
.
Is the ultimate grats not the U2 album 'Songs of Innocence', where everyone who had iTunes got it free? That didn't exactly go down well though, perhaps because it wasn't dripped out. It's a great album as well.

Or why not stick 4 or 5 songs on a CD and sell it for £1.99 and do the same for vinyl and give the fans tracks they've not heard before with artwork they've never seen before and they can hold it in their hands and display it on their shelves and they've got a REASON to pay money for it.
You mean the music itself isn't enough? A lot of posters here do seem to get some pleasure out of having a physical product when I thought music was the product and CD was just the method of delivery?

There are still some physical singles being released but many of the singles buyers now have never bought a cd, don't think we can turn this back now.
One can be nostalgic about not being able to go through the singles racks but I think that time has essentially past.
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Old 18-04-2016, 13:00
Ruthven
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Not sure if it's me being stuck in the 90's or if the charts are genuinely confusing these days.

Like, Bat For Lashes new album - if you pre-order that, you get the lead song "In Gods House" straightaway. Will that count to the song's charting position, or have I just preordered an album with an incentive? I don't get it.
What if enough people downloaded a non-single off an album and it charts? Does that not belittle the whole idea of a single? Maybe I'm just too old.

I think Average Joe has lost track of the charts and the recent changes. It's a young artists game now.
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Old 18-04-2016, 14:36
SepangBlue
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It's a shame this is not that case anymore. Although albums these days have so many tracks (usually 12-15) that even if a singer releases 5 singles, you're still getting 10 "new" songs when you buy the album. Funnily, Justin B's recent success is actually only down to 3 three singles from his new album and 1 in which he is a feature on someone else's song, he's just that overexposed. Taylor Swift, on the other hand, has released 7 singles off her most recent album which is almost unheard of.
Although Michael Jackson must have come close to this with his Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad albums. Unless I'm merely imagining the releases were all singles due to over familiarity with the album tracks themselves .. that could happen!

Not sure if it's me being stuck in the 90's or if the charts are genuinely confusing these days.

Like, Bat For Lashes new album - if you pre-order that, you get the lead song "In Gods House" straightaway. Will that count to the song's charting position, or have I just preordered an album with an incentive? I don't get it.
What if enough people downloaded a non-single off an album and it charts? Does that not belittle the whole idea of a single? Maybe I'm just too old.

I think Average Joe has lost track of the charts and the recent changes. It's a young artists game now.
Probably not, Ruthven!

Personally I've never 'streamed' anything in my life, unless listening to a track on YouTube is the same thing, in which case I've done it quite often!

I've not got an iPod so I don't have an iTunes account, so I don't buy/download music. I imagine if you are one of the countless tens of thousands who get their music this way, that it's possible to only have the tracks you like from the albums in question - would that be so?

Me, if I like an artist or I've heard something I like on Jools Holland or whatever, I'll go to Amazon and buy the CD - they're not expensive these days and at least you've always got the 'original'.
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Old 18-04-2016, 14:52
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Although Michael Jackson must have come close to this with his Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad albums. Unless I'm merely imagining the releases were all singles due to over familiarity with the album tracks themselves .. that could happen!



Probably not, Ruthven!

Personally I've never 'streamed' anything in my life, unless listening to a track on YouTube is the same thing, in which case I've done it quite often!

I've not got an iPod so I don't have an iTunes account, so I don't buy/download music. I imagine if you are one of the countless tens of thousands who get their music this way, that it's possible to only have the tracks you like from the albums in question - would that be so?

Me, if I like an artist or I've heard something I like on Jools Holland or whatever, I'll go to Amazon and buy the CD - they're not expensive these days and at least you've always got the 'original'.
but you cant do that with a single.
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Old 18-04-2016, 14:55
Breaking_News
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Not sure if it's me being stuck in the 90's or if the charts are genuinely confusing these days.

Like, Bat For Lashes new album - if you pre-order that, you get the lead song "In Gods House" straightaway. Will that count to the song's charting position, or have I just preordered an album with an incentive? I don't get it.
What if enough people downloaded a non-single off an album and it charts? Does that not belittle the whole idea of a single? Maybe I'm just too old.

I think Average Joe has lost track of the charts and the recent changes. It's a young artists game now.
Apparently it used to count as a single, but they have changed the rules, so will only count as an album sale once you have the full album.

This is counter productive IMO . Why would a record company NOT want a band to have a successful single?
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Old 18-04-2016, 14:57
Thorney
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Not sure if it's me being stuck in the 90's or if the charts are genuinely confusing these days.

Like, Bat For Lashes new album - if you pre-order that, you get the lead song "In Gods House" straightaway. Will that count to the song's charting position, or have I just preordered an album with an incentive? I don't get it.
What if enough people downloaded a non-single off an album and it charts? Does that not belittle the whole idea of a single? Maybe I'm just too old.

I think Average Joe has lost track of the charts and the recent changes. It's a young artists game now.
First question no it doesn't count and 2nd question yes people can and do download non-singles that have become hits

Think there was a track of the Little Mix album which was never intended to be a single but still was a big hit.

Yes it does the whole situation is confused right now and you aren't too old it's maybe the record company execs that are
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