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Old 19-04-2016, 07:39
rasseru16
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I'm wondering if this would be a good idea if this were to be implemented here in the UK too, with the misuse of mobile phones for crime and terrorism who thinks it would be a good idea to implement mandatory registration of pay as you go sim cards?
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Old 19-04-2016, 07:50
daleski75
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I'm wondering if this would be a good idea if this were to be implemented here in the UK too, with the misuse of mobile phones for crime and terrorism who thinks it would be a good idea to implement mandatory registration of pay as you go sim cards?
I take it you mean registering with the police?
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Old 19-04-2016, 08:04
rasseru16
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No actual registration with the network just like in other EU countries.

E.g. France requires you to have a form of photo ID in order to buy and activate a sim card over there which cuts down anonymous misuse of mobile phones.
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Old 19-04-2016, 08:14
daleski75
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No actual registration with the network just like in other EU countries.

E.g. France requires you to have a form of photo ID in order to buy and activate a sim card over there which cuts down anonymous misuse of mobile phones.
What's stopping someone from buying a sim card giving their id and then promptly given the sim card to someone who wants to misuse the phone etc?
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Old 19-04-2016, 08:17
rasseru16
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What's stopping someone from buying a sim card giving their id and then promptly given the sim card to someone who wants to misuse the phone etc?
True but then more reason to track down the person who originally activated the sim card with the network and then they would be liable for it. It would deter that from happening.
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Old 19-04-2016, 08:21
daleski75
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True but then more reason to track down the person who originally activated the sim card with the network and then they would be liable for it. It would deter that from happening.
I think it's a good idea in principal but unsure how well it could be policed in reality.
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Old 19-04-2016, 08:29
IvanIV
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What's stopping someone from buying a sim card giving their id and then promptly given the sim card to someone who wants to misuse the phone etc?
Depending on the misuse they might be in a big trouble.
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:08
squawkBOX
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I'm totally against this idea. Causes headaches each time I am in France and Germany (where I am now). I think all it does is restrict competition and puts a barrier on use.
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:14
Chris1973
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And if somebody brings in a Sim & phone bought in another Country, where such a scheme isn't in place or even outside of the EU and roams to the UK networks what then?.

Its been several years since i've been abroad, but i'm assuming you can take a UK sim card abroad on Holiday and roam to local networks of any Country that you travel in / through freely without presenting ID to the Network you are roaming to?, and vice versa.

At the moment it is virtually impossible to pursue driving offences and speeding fines with non UK license holders because no reciprocal agreement exists with the majority of Countries in order to share such information (and the same also applies if a UK driver commits an offence in Australia for example). If they can't get something in place to share official information such as Driving License details internationally and make fines and points due to those offences stick, how are they going to do something similar with the policing of sim cards owners?, assuming the Country they bought it in, even has such a scheme in place, (and is friendly enough with the UK to share the information as to the identity of the Sim registrant if it does)
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Old 19-04-2016, 09:41
SkipTracer
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If only registering sim cards would stop terrorist but it does not seem to work looking at Paris or Brussels does it.
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Old 19-04-2016, 10:17
moox
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True but then more reason to track down the person who originally activated the sim card with the network and then they would be liable for it. It would deter that from happening.
I can just see the same thing happening with phones as already happens to other age restricted products. You'll get phone shop staff who are scared into making the tiniest mistake for fear of losing their job and getting a hefty fine, so they will make it difficult for anyone to buy anything

Anyway, I thought in all of these recent attacks, it turned out that some intelligence agency actually did know something was going on, but the information didn't get to the people who needed it?

Seems like an incredibly over the top response to a near non-issue.
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Old 19-04-2016, 10:31
Maxatoria
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Do you think the average Argos etc staff member is going to be able to tell false documentation such as a foreign passport when handing over a £1 sim card and then recording all the information to be passed on to the phone company

What happens if some terrorist sympathizer on his literal last legs goes in buys a 1,000 of them on his death bed and hands them to his friends who are they going to chase up when he's 6 feet under?

The spooks are watching from the wings anyway and have this sort of thing in hand i'd bet and more legislation will only drive them to other methods.
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Old 19-04-2016, 11:31
TheBigM
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I think 10-15 years ago this would have made a lot more sense.
Nowadays,
1) Roaming is going to be a lot cheaper so that will be a circumvention.
2) It would just push greater identity theft and forged documentation
3) People will use more "over-the-top" services such as whatsapp so not much activity tied to sim card.

But that's because TV shows have led us to believe the world is full of smart criminals and terrorists. While some, no doubt are, I'm sure many of them pretty dumb (I mean what led them to criminality/terrorism instead of striving a comfortable middle class existence in the first place).

i remember reading in some of the uproar about encryption of services like whatsapp that a lot of suspects were still making regular calls and SMS rather than using apps like Silent Circle.
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Old 19-04-2016, 12:20
Chris1973
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All of this is also assuming that any organised crime are even using a Mobile Phone for sensitive communication, they could just as easily use an internet connection and tablet / laptop / computer encrypted on a public wifi connection, or as already mentioned above, wifi connected phone apps.

Of course you could introduce a system onto every public wifi access point whereby you needed to type in credit card details or even some kind of a National ID Card Number in order to Identify yourself to the wifi network and therefore make your use of it traceable, but I doubt that kind of system would sit well with those who walk down the street streaming seamlessly from every public wifi point available as any authentication and id verification process would no longer make it seamless!, plus many wouldn't like the idea of putting their personal details into what is a public internet connection in any case.

I suppose you could look to "Police" all roaming activity, in that you can't roam on another Countries' network until you have produced ID to that network, but that would require all Countries and all networks to have the same agreement, and can you imagine people on Holiday, arriving at say 6PM and not being able to use their phone via Roaming until they visited the nearest network outlet / phone shop to physically produce ID when it opened at 9AM the following day. Some people get great Angst if their network goes down for 15 minutes and they can't use their phone how would they go on for an entire day / night!. I can't imagine that would work well, or be workable for business travelers / lorry & bus drivers etc traveling through several Countries in a short space of time.

So where would you draw the line? given that there is more than one method of connecting a mobile phone to the outside world, and current roaming agreements would largely circumvent a Country based registration scheme.
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Old 19-04-2016, 13:59
Resonance
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Didn't the last Labour government propose this? Pretty sure they did, not sure why they dropped it as they (like this government) seemed very keen on spying on British citizens.

As has been said it's pretty pointless now we have such as WhatsApp offering end to end encryption out of the box.
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:05
moox
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As has been said it's pretty pointless now we have such as WhatsApp offering end to end encryption out of the box.
That is, until governments start trying to strongarm those companies into neutering the encryption to help out those three and four letter agencies that want the data.

Unfortunately the UK is on that list.
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Old 19-04-2016, 18:14
rasseru16
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If only registering sim cards would stop terrorist but it does not seem to work looking at Paris or Brussels does it.
France has a strict Sim Card registration policy and you can only obtain sim cards with a Passport or National Identity.

Belgium on the other hand you do not need ID and you can simply pick up a sim card preety much like here in the UK.
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Old 19-04-2016, 19:07
FiendishlyC
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Would minors have their sim cards purchased by an adult? Only those with passports would have photo ID, and not all adults have photo id either (I don't have a passport but I do have a driving licence). Some networks insist on customer details to register but don't check them.

Of course asking for id before buying contact phones has removed all fraud...
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Old 19-04-2016, 21:35
david16
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Insert a blank unregistered three PAYG sim in your smartphone and arrange all incoming SMS’s to go to that sim.
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Old 20-04-2016, 06:33
rasseru16
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Would minors have their sim cards purchased by an adult? Only those with passports would have photo ID, and not all adults have photo id either (I don't have a passport but I do have a driving licence). Some networks insist on customer details to register but don't check them.

Of course asking for id before buying contact phones has removed all fraud...
I guess this is how this works in France & Spain aswell as others, parents "manage" the sim card for them and they usually have parental control features under the my account section.

Saying that this may not be the case for most children because they would have their own national identity cards so effectively they can still have their own sim cards registered.
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